797
Topic Author
Posts: 1386
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Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:21 pm

Hello,

I usually go spotting at FLL, specially because of the 767-400ER. So, I've noticed that DL serves ATL five times a day, three of them with the 764 (DL456, DL787, DL365).

The 764 is equiped to carry up to 285 passengers and fly up to 6,480 miles. So, is this route profitable being a 581 mile journey flying 3 times a day with this kind of aircraft?

And also, is the other 763 flight (DL1770) profitable as well?

I know there's another conversation about this A/C, but this specific operation doubts me.

Thanks,

Greetings!
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2613
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:45 pm

DL serves ATL-FLL more than 5 times a day. These flights are VERY full. ATL-FLL is a huge O&D market, as well as connecting flights. It's unknown whether these flights are profitable. Fares aren't high, but that is likely made up in volume.

Jeremy
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:55 pm

Better soak them up.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:12 pm

Delta used to fly about 3 more times on the route, but everything has been messed up and with this being a lower travel time I am not suprised to see a drop in service and I would not be suprised to see it return some time soon.
That being said...
DL has 10X daily (11 to ATL TUE and 11 from ATL WED)
5X 764
2X 763
1X 762
1X M80
1X 738
--------
2425 seats
+199 Tue
--------
2524 seats on Tuesday

and that is MUCH lower than usual!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:24 pm

DL uses the 764 (and 763) on the ATL-FLL route for capacity......DL needs a lot of seats out of its ATL megahub to a very popular destination such as FLL.

The 767 series can handle short flights such as ATL-FLL and make a profit.......especially when all of the seats are filled, which is very typical out of FLL. As you probably know, DL flew 1011s on the ATL-FLL route for years (all varieties) for the same reason - capacity - and DL went with the 764 as its 1011 replacement since it could fly both short and longerhaul routes.

As pointed out above, the number of flights on the ATL-FLL routes varies depending upon the the time of year with Sept/Oct being a low-demand period.
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:31 pm

I have taken that flight several times. always full but feels very comfortable with the 777 interiors and PTV in first class.
I am also surprised that they dont use the newer 764 on transatlantic flights since most passengers complaint about the older looking 763 on those routes. They could still use the older 763 on the shorter ATL-FL flights for capacity as the impression of the older plane wouldn't matter for a 2 hour flight.
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:37 pm

..another thing.. if the O/D from Florida is so high for them and they already have the loyal customers, why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)
ATL normally becomes a mess with bad weather or ATC delays and is the only reason i try to avoid it (yeah right!). They really need to reduce the number of flights there and offer more nonstop where it can be done profitably.
The 764 could be better used for transatlantic markets.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)

What do you think DL has been doing in the last 12 months?!?
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
As pointed out above, the number of flights on the ATL-FLL routes varies depending upon the the time of year with Sept/Oct being a low-demand period.

And, even in the low time, it is a business oriented route, so it will fill up.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
..another thing.. if the O/D from Florida is so high for them and they already have the loyal customers, why not offer more nonstop flights from FL to markets that can sustain it instead of funeling everybody on a 764 through ATL?. (hint: more Song flights)

At least from FLL, ATL is a big destination. I don't know how many times I have gone to baggage claim at ATL and 90% of the plane is there. FLL-ATL is a hige O&D route! The early flights from ATL fill up (and a lot of people are at the gate real early!) and the late flights to ATL fill up...and if you ever look at the crowd on a FLL-ATL flight, it is a suit and tie crowd except in the high travel season...but yes, they can fill 2524 seats on a Tuesday and I'd say maybe 500-600 are connecting and 1924 are nonstop or through passengers.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
797
Topic Author
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
The 764 could be better used for transatlantic markets.

That's exactly what I though when this aircraft came out. It's supposed to be an excellent airplane in all the terms of the word. According to Delta's site, they own 21 of them, and as far as I'm concerned, they're all under a domestic configuration. Isn't this illogic?

Anyways, how many airlines use this type? Is it successful?
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:20 am

797...appearently you need to take a trip to Floirda...then your opinion will be swayed.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
drerx7
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:21 am

Only Continental and Delta use the 764. Kenya Airways (IIRC) ordered some but changed the order to other Boeing types. DL used it as a domestic L1011 replacement--hence the 285 seats. Continental's are international birds with only 250 or so seats--with PTVs and 32" of pitch--much more comfortable.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Isn't this illogic?

No. The 764 was meant as the domestic workhorse replacement for the L-1011, and nothing else. There is a reason why DL has more seats on their 764s than on their 777s: The capacity is simply needed, both on the Florida flights, as well as the Hawaii flights.

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Anyways, how many airlines use this type?

2, DL and CO.

Quoting 797 (Reply 9):
Is it successful?

37 planes ordered by 2 airlines. I'll let you decide for yourself whether that is successful.
 
drerx7
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
37 planes ordered by 2 airlines. I'll let you decide for yourself whether that is successful.

LOL--very nice way to put that.
The 764 ended up being a niche aircraft; from what I understand CO and DL are pleased with the performance in regards to their tasks--a commercial success  indifferent 
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
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litz
Posts: 1849
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 1):
DL serves ATL-FLL more than 5 times a day. These flights are VERY full. ATL-FLL is a huge O&D market, as well as connecting flights. It's unknown whether these flights are profitable. Fares aren't high, but that is likely made up in volume.

Think cruise ships ... DL is moving lots and lots of people onto and off of cruise ships ... Anytime you fly into FLL, there's huge numbers headed off to the piers.

That's why the huge capacity (and the fact that it's FILLED).

Same thing for Disney and Orlando.

- litz
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 14):
Think cruise ships ... DL is moving lots and lots of people onto and off of cruise ships ... Anytime you fly into FLL, there's huge numbers headed off to the piers.

Cruise ships cover the weekend...business covers weekdays.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
User avatar
jetpixx
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:10 am

I like flying on the 764 on the FLL-ATL and ATL-FLL legs. They are a comfortable aircraft with the leather headrest, etc. I didn't realize how scarce they were and how lucky I should be flying on them - lol.

In any event, on my last flight two weeks ago - I flew the 738 from FLL-ATL. I guess that was lucky, too, seeing that is the only flight of the day!

Anyway, I hope DL pulls out of their Ch. 11 - as FLL would have a lot to lose if they went bye-bye.
 
LongbowPilot
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:35 am

o/d? what the heck is that?

I know i'm going to be kicking myself in the A$$ when i'm told because i should know/remember this from when i was a wiget worker bee.
 
drerx7
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:44 am

Origin/Destination not connecting traffic
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
cslusarc
Posts: 553
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:39 am

-I think that DL should rethink its strategy at FLL. I think that DL should convert to its Song-banner its 581 mi long FLL-ATL route, and its 931 mi long FLL-CVG route. I think Song could successfully fly almost hourly with 12-13 times daily on FLL-ATL and a once daily FLL-CVG (and twice daily on Fridays and Saturdays).

If FLL-ATL goes Song, then the 763s and 764s that fly the route could be redeployed to higher yielding international routes.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 19):
-I think that DL should rethink its strategy at FLL. I think that DL should convert to its Song-banner its 581 mi long FLL-ATL route, and its 931 mi long FLL-CVG route. I think Song could successfully fly almost hourly with 12-13 times daily on FLL-ATL and a once daily FLL-CVG (and twice daily on Fridays and Saturdays).

If FLL-ATL goes Song, then the 763s and 764s that fly the route could be redeployed to higher yielding international routes.

You're kidding, right?

One of the big moneymakers for song is the movies and food...nobody will atke a flight of 581 miles and eat a full meal for $7 and enjoy a movie! They fly 1X weekly FLL-ATL and only offer the picnic basket items. Plus, SLC-FLL, ATL-FLL, CVG-FLL are all AS MUCH LIESURE AND VFR as it is is business.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:13 am

Central and S. Fla are pretty big routes for them.

ATL-MCO has:
2 x 777
3 x 764
5 x 763
1 x 757
2 x MD80

ATL-PBI has:
1 x 764
3 x 763
1 x 762
3 x 757
1 x 738

TPA also sees 5 767s
 
drerx7
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:23 am

Plus 764s would have to be reconfigured--ATL-LIM is the only international route the 764 has done.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 22):
ATL-LIM is the only international route the 764 has done.

On a scheduled basis that is. The 764 has occasionally been swapped to CUN, and AUA also IIRC.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 10):
797...appearently you need to take a trip to Floirda...then your opinion will be swayed.



Quoting 797 (Thread starter):

I usually go spotting at FLL,

Seems like he's been there before...maybe I missed something?

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
797
Topic Author
Posts: 1386
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 24):
Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 10):
797...appearently you need to take a trip to Floirda...then your opinion will be swayed.



Quoting 797 (Thread starter):

I usually go spotting at FLL,

Seems like he's been there before...maybe I missed something?

Greg

Nah, you haven't missed anything. I was confused about this aircraft's situation, but thanks to you guys, it's clear. I do go often to Florida, at least 3 times a year.

Greetings!
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
FLAIRPORT
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 24):
Seems like he's been there before...maybe I missed something?

I missed that...but I was trying to say, fly on the DL764 and you'll see why they use it.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
JasYHZ
Posts: 155
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:16 pm

Flew the 764 two years ago BOS-ATL. Very nice a/c and service was superb. My Bette Midler look-alike F/A was great and stashed a few 20 pack of Biscoff's in my carryon when I was in the lav.......she said it was nice to hear an accent from "up north!"
"That's it! You just made the list!"
 
F27XXX
Posts: 617
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:02 pm

Damn her! There's why Delta is in CH 11 now is these overly friendly F/As. Blame them !! 20 cookies to one passenger .. OY!! I never did trust that Bette Midler anyway!!

JUST KIDDN!  silly 
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
cschleic
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RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:26 pm

I've flown DL 767-400's a few times between ATL and FLL, plus 767-300's. Always packed, even leaving FLL at 5:30am! Lots of sun burned cruise passengers. The 777 type interior plus leather seats on the 764 are nice, but it's definitely a cattle car in coach. And I've seen tempers get flared with passengers who obviously aren't regular flyers.
 
panam330
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 3):
2425 seats
+199 Tue
--------
2524 seats on Tuesday

That'd be 2624, Cheech. I'm surprised someone else didn't catch that first.

As for the topic at hand, like everybody else has said, DL offers this number of seats because they can fill them. They jam seats into the 764, making it an incredibly low-cost aircraft. Low fares? Add more seats. You'll make money- this, I believe, is where DL makes money (the same can't be said for the rest of the network  Wink).
 
pbiflyer
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:37 am

No more 767-400's at FLL in the new Dec schedule.

ATL goes to:
3 - 763
1 - 737-800
6 - 757

A lot less seats from all of Florida to ATL in the new schedule unless the updates change this again.
PBI is South Florida's BEST airport!
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting Dazed767 (Reply 21):
Central and S. Fla are pretty big routes for them.

ATL-MCO has:
2 x 777
3 x 764
5 x 763
1 x 757
2 x MD80

ATL-PBI has:
1 x 764
3 x 763
1 x 762
3 x 757
1 x 738

Back in 2003, even RSW saw 12 daily 763s + 1 daily MD88. I don't know if it's still at those levels but that's a lot of capacity for a destination that normally only gets five or six narrow bodies a day from the other majors.
PHX based
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting Pbiflyer (Reply 31):
A lot less seats from all of Florida to ATL in the new schedule unless the updates change this again.

The updates probably will change again regarding the reduced widebody Florida flights.
a.
 
pbiflyer
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
The updates probably will change again regarding the reduced widebody Florida flights.

Thanks, I certainly hope so, as there are several dates where some of the now MD88 PBI - ATL flights only have first class seats left. Same problem with some of the now 757 flights from FLL. This includes dates well into March. DL is hopefully just setting the time slots and the actual equipment will be finalized by the reported Oct 15th update.
PBI is South Florida's BEST airport!
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Delta 767-400 FLL-ATL Operation

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:10 am

RSW has 1 767 still (-200), but that will be gone at the end of the month.

ATL-MCO winter sked changed dramatically as well (no more 777s):
2 x 764
2 x 763
7 x 757 !
2 x MD80

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