AF-A319
Topic Author
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Tue May 09, 2000 6:33 pm

Hello  

This is NOT a joke!    

----
BA could join Air France/Delta alliance-paper
PARIS, May 9 (Reuters) - British Airways could decide in the coming weeks to quit its Oneworld alliance with American Airlines and join up with a rival grouping that includes Air France and Delta, French daily Les Echos said on Tuesday.

Citing several informed sources, the paper said Air France and Delta had delayed the formal unveiling of their alliance -- which Air France executives had previously said would be in March or April -- while waiting for BA's decision.

An Air France spokesman said he could provide no immediate comment on the report.

Should such a move take place it would give the well-established Star Alliance, led by United and Lufthansa , a formidable rival.

The paper quoted Air France and British Airways executives as saying there had been contacts between the French and British carriers, but that no deal had been finalised.

``Nothing is unimaginable, since everything is fluid when it comes to alliances,'' BA commercial director Carl Michel told the paper.

``But even if Air France seems ready to work with us, it would be dangerous to presume that discussions are headed rapidly in one single direction -- we are talking to many airlines on many different topics,'' Michel was quoted as saying.

Other sources, the paper said, confirmed that discussions between the two carriers were gradually advancing and that a deal could be reached within weeks.

Les Echos said that Iberia airline, in which British Airways holds a nine percent stake, could also join the Air France/Delta group as part of a deal.
-----

Any comments ?








 
Hagi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:57 pm

I Don't Think So.

Tue May 09, 2000 7:23 pm

The EU wouldn't take that hands down. With BA, AF and IB not competing, Western Europe would pretty much be monopolized.

Besides, how would BA and DL be different from BA and AA, when it comes to why they're not allowed to cooperate now? That's what shadows Oneworld's future as it is...

This is only my two hundreths of your preferred currency, but isn't the Union blocking all plans of any two major euro airlines (truly major, like in the top five) while the politicians on the other side of the pond make sure that no US giant sleeps with BA (unless, of course, the LHR situation changes) ?

- Hagi
 
Guest

This Is Not True

Tue May 09, 2000 7:43 pm

I have checked out Reuters web site and I couldn't find a link to this story. Can the author of this please post a link to the website where its from!

IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THIS STORY! AFTER ALL, IT WAS BA THAT FOUNDERED ONEWORLD ALLIANCE.
 
AF Cabin Crew
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 11:45 pm

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Tue May 09, 2000 7:44 pm

Hagi,

I do understand your concern with the problem here. But unlike BA/AA, there is no monopoly in LHR as Delta doesn't serve the airport but goes to LGW. Also there would only be one route where the 2 airlines would exercise a monopoly and that is the ATL-LGW ! DL's other route to LGW is from CVG which BA doesn't serve.

About Air France and British Airways, yes they are the number 1 and number 3 of the european skies but they are very complementary, Air France would take the African network where they hold a leader's position as a single airline from a single hub, They are performing extremely well on the south American network and the carribean and west-indies.
British Airways is well position over the north atlantic as we all know as well as to the middle east and western pacific while Air France has the eastern pacific with Tahiti. They are both performing well in Asia and Europe too.

But, the regulators will see red and the two big forces will have to make concessions.

I do hope this could happen, wait and see !!!

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew.


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Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
AF-A319
Topic Author
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Tue May 09, 2000 7:46 pm

Hello!

The link is :

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/000509/n.html

If you speak french, you can also go to www.lesechos.fr


 
Hagi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:57 pm

To AF Cabin Crew

Tue May 09, 2000 8:12 pm

I'm not concerned, I'm merely saying it won't happen. Brussels won't allow it, too big players involved. And yes, this is just my hunch.

Of course for Oneworld it would be fatal; there would be no European major so no truly global alliance. They're having hard times as it is, losing Canadian and all. Chances are the alliance would break up and the smaller airlines would go knocking on Star's and Qualifyer's doors. Or maybe they would just follow BA, maybe only AA would have to start looking... Anyway, it seems very unlikely.

What *I* wish would happen is there would be maybe three or four GLOBAL alliances, not too far apart in size, coverage, etc. Each would comprise of a US giant, a European giant and an Asian giant, and then the complementing smaller airlines, at the very least. That would be a somewhat healthy situation. Now it seems that every airline goes to Star while only one alliance able to compete at even approximately the same level exists and has an uncertain future. The others aren't even trying.

- Hagi
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Tue May 09, 2000 11:28 pm

They're having hard times as it is, losing Canadian and all.
Yes, They are in a panic in DFW...CP leaving OneWorld...The Sky is Falling!
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

Just My $0.02

Wed May 10, 2000 2:13 am

My two cents are that:

If this goes ahead, it would be the best alliance of all time. Delta is enormous on both sides of the United States, and, in a couple of years will become a very important player (if not the most dominant) on the Southeastern US - South / Central America routes.

BA is far and away the strongest airline in Europe, with AF a close third, so this would complement, not compete. All three would have access to Atlanta, Paris CDG and London (both).

It seems, however, unlikely as an aside, that this would make DL move lock stock & barrell into Heathrow, or at least faster than they were going to anyway.

But, if it did go ahead, it would be likely that they would at least start a New York Kennedy - Heathrow / Gatwick service.

Basically, if DL and AF are joined by BA (making it the DL/BA/AF alliance rather than DL/AF/BA) it will be the best possible alliance for passengers in Europe and the Americas who want to travel between the two, in Europe or in North America, or between Central/South America and the US / Europe.

It would be the best possible alliance imaginable.

However, I am not knocking Air France here at all!

FLY DELTA JETS



N863DA.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Just My $0.02

Wed May 10, 2000 2:18 am

Will never happen! The EU wil never allow it! The alliance would have control of the worlds best airports/ cities. I think this deal will not go through.

Avion
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

Oh Dear Me...

Wed May 10, 2000 2:26 am

I checked the web site that the thing is quoted to come from, and I turned up this:

UPDATE 1-British Airways denies plans to leave Oneworld
PARIS, May 9 (Reuters) - British Airways denied on Tuesday it planned to leave the Oneworld alliance after a French newspaper report said the airline could soon sign up with a rival grouping that includes Air France and Delta.

``I think this speculation is entirely unfounded,'' British Airways commercial director Carl Michel told a news conference in Hong Kong.

``There's always a lot of talk about alliances, and I think this has probably been triggered by the KLM and Alitalia rupture,'' Michel said. ``I think we are working very well with American Airlines.''

Citing several informed sources, French daily Les Echos said Air France and Delta had delayed the formal unveiling of their alliance -- which Air France executives had previously said would come in March or April -- while awaiting BA's decision to join.

A spokeswoman for Air France said the airline was in discussions with British Airways on a number of important topics, noting that the two carriers talked on a regular basis.

But she declined to confirm any talks on BA joining the Air France alliance.

``As far as we know British Airways is very attached to Oneworld,'' she said.

Oneworld groups BA, Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd , American Airlines, Qantas Airways Ltd, Finnair and Iberia. Aer Lingus and LanChile are to join this year.

A move by BA to the Air France/Delta grouping would create an alliance with unrivalled European coverage and provide the well-established Star Alliance, led by United and Lufthansa , with a formidable rival.

The paper quoted Air France and British Airways executives as saying there had been contacts between the French and British carriers, but that no deal had been finalised.

``Nothing is unimaginable, since everything is fluid when it comes to alliances,'' it quoted Michel as saying. ``But even if Air France seems ready to work with us, it would be dangerous to presume that discussions are headed rapidly in one single direction -- we are talking to many airlines on many different topics.''

Other sources, the paper said, confirmed that discussions between the two carriers were gradually advancing and that a deal could be reached within weeks.

Les Echos said that Iberia airline, in which British Airways holds a nine percent stake, could also join the Air France/Delta group as part of a deal.

======================

FLY DELTA JETS



N863DA.

 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

BA Will Certainly Do So...

Wed May 10, 2000 2:46 am

Hello,

There would be much cooperation for AF-DL-BA to do (note that AF will remain the European leader of the alliance anyway. They won't push them out to let enter BA, because of the profitabiliy of the US routes)

For example the GE-powered 777 fleet, or the airframe maintenance of the 747-200s and 747-400s. Commercial and technical forces would be share on the whole newtworks either.

Beside BA, there would also be Iberoia, which operate much common fleets with that of Air France (A320s and A340s).

That would also be a great thing for the AF-DL out of Europe: I would assume Qantas, Cathay and JAL would re-consider their partnership to oneworld, as it would have a much less European partner - Swissair - and AA cooperation could be replaced by one with DL.

Also Thai, which has been much courted by QF and BA to become their partner on the Kangaroo Routes could well join the alliance, as the joined forces would be stronger against Star Alliance's proposal.

I'm pretty much convinced BA will do so. Denying is just common while being in hot talks with such partners. Their cooperation with AA has proved to be much inefficient. Now it's time for them to get something better if they want to stay in the race for the North Atlantic.

Regards,
Alain Mengus

 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: BA Will Certainly Do So...

Wed May 10, 2000 3:06 am

Maybe BA will buy a stake in AF? BA will be leader in europe because they are much bigger anyway.

Avion
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Stake

Wed May 10, 2000 3:15 am

Or maybe AF will buy a stake in BA. Considering the last financial reports of both airlines, I would rather see it that way.

Regards,
Alain Mengus
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 3:52 am

AF is state owned. Therfore they are up for Sale. If AF woud buy a stake in BA they would make BA again State owned. That's the last thing the Eu wants.
For the future DL-AF-BA alliance it would be clear that DL and BA would run the show. BA is so much larger than AF.

Avion
 
SR3496
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 8:21 pm

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 4:10 am

what about Finnair and south american carriers? would the BA-AF-DL take Aerolineas Argentinas?
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 4:11 am

All I'm going to say is that I will pray that this goes through. Look at the stats:

Delta serves the most European destinations from the US
British Airways serves the most US destinations from Europe (or so I believe)
Air France is right up there with BA and Lufthansa
You'd have excellant access to some of the world's most important airports:
Atlanta, JFK, LHR, CDG

You never know if the EU will allow it. Look at Star - Lufthansa, Austrian, British Midland, Lauda, SAS, Tyrolean. That is a whopping 7 European based airlines and the EU let that slide! Combine those airlines and they are just a little smaller than BA and AF in fleet, and their European network is much better than AF-BA's in terms of destinations.. Here you are, doing one of the best things in business, creating competion. Compition = lower prices, which helps the people out by not having to pay as much for an airline ticket.

What I think Delta should do is buy a stake in both British Airways and Air France.

Also, if you get the OneWorld carriers to join AF-DL-BA, you'd also have a very strong Asian network (Korean once it fixes it's problems with Delta and Boeing, Cathay, and possibly Thai and JAL), a possible South African carrier (SAA), Lan Chile, and Qantas too. Plus AeroMexico. This could end up becoming a great rivalry. It's all up to the EU now.
Go Delta-Air France-British Airways

Jeff
 
SR3496
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 8:21 pm

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 4:24 am

hey jeff

Korean, Cathay, Thai AND Japan AirLines.....don't you think that would be too much?
and SAA: Swissair is holding 20% of South African Airways. Think on this.

just my view

SR3496
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 4:39 am

Here is the lead from "Les Echos" newspaper as available on their web site (translation follows) :

"British Airways pourrait décider, dans les prochaines semaines, de se séparer d'American Airlines pour se joindre au couple Air France-Delta Air Lines. Après quatre années d'union décevante avec la compagnie américaine, sir Colin Marshall, le président de BA, numéro un en Europe, serait tenté, selon plusieurs sources, de sceller un accord avec Jean-Cyril Spinetta, le président d'Air France, numéro trois européen. Il s'agirait d'une déclaration de guerre à Star Alliance, emmené par United et Lufthansa. La paire franco-britannique, associée à Delta Air Lines, aurait une puissance commerciale impressionnante. Mais d'autres scénarios sont encore envisageables."

"BA could decide, in coming weeks, to separate from AA to join the AF-DL couple. After four years of deceptive results in its union with the american carrier, sir Colin Marshall, BA president, Europe's first carrier, would be tempted, according to many sources, to reach a deal with Jean-Cyril Spinetta, AF president, Europe's third carrier. That would be a declaration of war against the Star Alliance, led by UA and LH. The french-british team, associated with DL, would have impressive commercial resources. But other scenarios are being considered."

That's it. The web site doesn't say more. And by the way, I'm not a professionnal translator, so please, if you don't like or agree with my translation, I'm sorry.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

I Doubt It But Theres Still A Chance

Wed May 10, 2000 10:32 am

i seriously doubt it because if the european politicians won't let BA and AA be together, why would they let BA,DL,and AF be together, there still is that chance since AA,SR,and Sabena hooked up so AA could join Qualiflyer but i would doubt it about AF and BA and DL since BA and AF i think are the biggest european airlines and they are competitors so i would doubt it there. but if this does happen, Oneworld could fall apart since AA and BA are probably the two major players in it but don't look for BA hooking up with DL and AF.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 3:27 pm

Why not. Than AA would be freed up to join with SR at a more advanced level: we would have LH/UA/SAS - AA/SR/SN - and DL/AF/BA
 
Laserjet
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: BA Could Join AF/DL Alliance:-O

Wed May 10, 2000 6:06 pm

I doubt that this would ever happen, as British Airways would have a lot of work on its hands, undoing what it has already set up with Oneworld. Remember the problems they had with US Airways.