OSA330
Topic Author
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Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:48 pm

Austrian Airlines has announced the sale of their two Airbus A340-200. The aircraft will be handed over to a French investment group at the end of winter flight plan and at the end of summer flight plan 2006 respectively.
AUA said that the A342 were inefficient to operate because of the amount of seats, and that the sale will contribute to a harmonized fleet.

I am highly interested in the new aircraft replacing the A342. Will they really acquire 777?

[Edited 2005-09-15 09:49:38]
 
dutchjet
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:54 pm

AUA has been looking to get rid of their two A342s for years - there were rumors of seveal proposed deals which never came to be (for example, the deal with Aerflot which involved the trade of AUA A342s for Aeroflots two 777s)....there is a limited market for the A342 which sold in small numbers, most airlines prefer the extra seats of the A343 to the range advantage of the A342.

I am glad that AUA could complete a deal - I wonder where the A342s will end up?

Will AUA order the 772 - who knows? The mixed fleet of ex-Lauda Boeings and AUA Airbus' really does not make a lot of sense......we may see some rationalization of the AUA fleet in the coming years.
 
TriStar500
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:56 pm

I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting. The OS Group isn't doing very well at the moment.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
OHLHD
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:13 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
I am glad that AUA could complete a deal - I wonder where the A342s will end up?

There was a topic few days ago that the french govn. would buy them.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
Will AUA order the 772 - who knows?

If I was you, I would make a bet Big grin
 
FlySSC
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:25 pm

 
PADSpot
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
most airlines prefer the extra seats of the A343 to the range advantage of the A342.

... which today hardly exists anymore as most/many A340-300s have been upgraded to X-Standard. Also many of the recent production models have E-standard ... today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...
 
A342
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so, just like the B747 SP.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
QuestAir
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so, just like the B747 SP.

I believe Qatar Emiri Flight has at an A340 in its fleet, even though they might have gotten rid of this.... not sure.
'Do we carry rich people on our flights? Yes, I flew on one this morning and I�m very rich.' - Michael O'Leary
 
CRJ900
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting OSA330 (Thread starter):
AUA said that the A342 were inefficient to operate because of the amount of seats, and that the sale will contribute to a harmonized fleet.

In what way? Too many seats or not enough seats?

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting.

That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
A342
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting QuestAir (Reply 7):
I believe Qatar Emiri Flight has at an A340 in its fleet, even though they might have gotten rid of this.... not sure.

Yes. In an article about Qatar Amiri Flight I read that besides of an ACJ, they had an A342 and an A310. They also have a new A332 for Amiri Flight which was included in the Qatar Airways order and the article says they want to sell either the A310 or the A342 after the new aircraft arrived. However, Amiri Flight is now getting a brand-new A345, too ! I guess they will sell both the A342 and the A310 now (if they don´t need them anymore).


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Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Bohlman
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
The OS Group isn't doing very well at the moment.

How do you figure that? They've posted profits for the past three years (at least, that's all they had on their website. I can check further later), and more importantly, their revenue has stayed well ahead of their operating costs, even in an environment where fuel prices have practically doubled. While they may not be matching the (supposed) powerhouse expansion of airlines like EK, to be posting profits at a time in which their management is still in somewhat of a turmoil, they're expanding their fleet (738s), helping to foot the bill for the expansion of VIE, and generally unstable economic conditions (i.e. Oil Prices, LCC competition) is in my opinion a pretty good indication that the OS group is just fine.

[Edited 2005-09-15 22:21:57]
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
Bohlman
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):

In what way? Too many seats or not enough seats?

With just 257 seats, the Airbus A340-200 is a relatively small, cost-intensive four-jet long-range aircraft with low revenue potential.

So according to their press release, it's not only too small, but costs too much as well. Too expensive to take too few people, I guess.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

Nope, they'll definitely be going for larger aircraft, at least, if they hold true with what their press release says.

An application to acquire replacements for the two long-range aircraft will be presented to the Supervisory Board of the Austrian Airlines Group at the end of September.

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
They are popular as executive aircraft and will continue to do so

I could only find three on A.net, but that's hardly proof that there aren't many. I'm not sure I would call even the 747SP "popular" as a private aircraft. I wouldn't mind knowing where you got that fact.

For those of you interested in the actual press release from OS, go here:

http://www.austrianairlines.co.at/en...F4464-49BA-40D5-A570-767610AD0DCF}
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
airbazar
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?
 
OHLHD
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 10):
How do you figure that? They've posted profits for the past three years (at least, that's all they had on their website

I think you are wrong here, they are not struggeling but they aren´t in good shape either. They had a minus last year.
 
Bohlman
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:03 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 13):
They had a minus last year.

Did you check their website? Cause they say the opposite of that.
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
hz747300
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:28 pm

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 11):
That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

Nope, they'll definitely be going for larger aircraft, at least, if they hold true with what their press release says.

An application to acquire replacements for the two long-range aircraft will be presented to the Supervisory Board of the Austrian Airlines Group at the end of September.

Actually, it is quite clear to me. They do not care which aircraft it is, or how big it is, they are more concerned with efficiency of the aircraft:

A = reasonable expected revenue per person, per segment
B = costs per person, per segment

A needs to be bigger than B. In fact, the bigger A is, the better. If A is just a hair bigger than B, and there are products which A is a lot bigger than B, and you can find someone to buy your inefficient aircraft, by all means, do so.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 13):
I think you are wrong here, they are not struggeling but they aren´t in good shape either. They had a minus last year.

Well, it is expected to be a bad year financially for the airline:
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_942404.html
Keep on truckin'...
 
GRZ-AIR
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:22 pm

Aua was posting quite some high losses this year... I hope they manage and won't be aquired by the "Kranich"  Wink!

cheers, P.
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
N1120A
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
I'd rather expect more A332, finances permitting.

That would give them an aircraft about the same size as the 342. Number of seats the right size then?

The A332 is far more efficient for most missions than the A342

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
today it is really a niche aircraft for long and thin routes like JNB-PER for instance. At latest with the advent of the 787/A350 they will become obsolete ...

Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?

ETOPS330 would allow it
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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PM
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:04 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
However, Amiri Flight is now getting a brand-new A345, too !

A bit off topic but, just to set the record straight, they aren't "getting" an A345, they've got it. In fact they've had it for two years since it was delivered in September 2003.

Back on topic... Anyone see AUA being an early customer for the A350???
 
VORFMD
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting GRZ-AIR (Reply 16):
Aua was posting quite some high losses this year

wrong, they were posting quite high losses for the first 6 months. Since 3 Months it´s going better and better. However, end of this year there will be losses, but not that high. Next year the want be back in the blacks.

Estimate more B772 to come after the 2 A342 left the Fleet.
 
hz747300
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:10 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 18):
Back on topic... Anyone see AUA being an early customer for the A350???

No. Lauda introduced them to the wonderful world of Boeing aircraft, and they are sold on the greatest airplanes (as an American would say), or aeroplanes (as an Australian would say), and lord love a duck they are going to order more Boeing widebodies.

I would expect that they will go for fleet reduction in the near term as Austrian's on management admits there will be a shakedown in the European air market. Once the dust settles, then mabye they will purchase new planes more efficient planes. Remember, this is contraction by Austrian, not seeking a replacement for an under performing aircraft.
Keep on truckin'...
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:42 pm

I remember AR at one stage were looking for an additional A342, is this still the case?
 
Icelandair
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting GRZ-AIR (Reply 16):
Aua was posting quite some high losses this year... I hope they manage and won't be aquired by the "Kranich"

I´d say it's only a matter of time!
http://www.flugbegleiter.net/
 
PADSpot
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:43 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
Not on the JNB-PER route they won't. ETOPS remember?

The A340-200 has FOUR engines. ETOPS means Extended-range Twin-engine Operation Performance Standards, thus applies for two-engined aircraft. SAA flies the A342 on JNB-PER btw ...
 
Bohlman
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:28 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 20):
Remember, this is contraction by Austrian, not seeking a replacement for an under performing aircraft.

I don't know where you got that information, but according to their press release, they're going to have a replacement proposal by the end of the month...
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
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breiz
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 20):
I would expect that they will go for fleet reduction in the near term

A310, A319, A320, A321, A332, A342, A343, B737-3/4/6/7/8, B767-3, B777-2, F70, MD83/87, there is some room for fleet reduction...
Particularly for a relatively small airline (no offence meant).
 
A342
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:59 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 25):
A310,



Quoting Breiz (Reply 25):
MD83/87

Already phased out.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 25):
A342

As the topic says, they will be phased out.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 25):
F70

You forgot the F100 fleet they recently acquired. There are rumors that more will come and that the F70 will be replaced with CRJs.
As I said, this is just a rumor !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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breiz
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 26):
Quoting Breiz (Reply 25):
A310,

Sorry about the F70 and MDs, I am an Airbus guy really.
Talking of which, the A310 c/n 624 is still the property of Austrian and is leased to Islandsflug as TF-ELR.
 
VORFMD
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RE: Austrian Airlines (AUA) Sells Two A340-200

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:33 am

It´s an internal Secret that those 2 A342 will be replaced by B772.