Matt D
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Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:16 am

What are some orders from various airlines over the years that were never filled? I'm not talking about something like reducing an order of 737's from-say 50 to 40. I'm talking about airline/aircraft combinations that for whatever reason never came to pass.

Here are some that I recall off the top of my head:

Alaska: MD-90
Western Pacific: 73G/738
Western: 767
America West: A300/767
Pan Am: A320
Air Florida: 757
Valujet: 717 (yes, I KNOW that Valujet is now AirTran...but "Critter" was dead and buried by the time the 717 was rolled out)
 
SWISSER
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:27 am

Sabena's full A32S fleet and A343E orders
What time is top of descent?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:32 am

SR A340-600s, CO A340-300s
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:33 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):


Pan Am: A320



Correct, yet not. Never delivered to PA, true. But the order was taken over by Braniff 2 and finally America West. I believe it was not only the delivery positions, but the order itself.

[Edited 2005-09-15 22:34:15]

That's may not meet your criteria but TWA had 2: A330, cancelled and changed to A318, cancelled by AA before any deliveries were made.

[Edited 2005-09-15 22:38:27]
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whitehatter
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:35 am

British Caledonian, the launch customer for the McDonnell Douglas MD-11. Cancelled when BA took them over.

[Edited 2005-09-15 22:35:38]
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
BCAL
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 4):
British Caledonian, the launch customer for the McDonnell Douglas MD-11. Cancelled when BA took them over

And British Caledonian was also due to be the launch customer of the A320 but their aircraft was murdered, sorry painted in BA colours. This caused quite a storm for BA who had then never ordered any Airbus aircraft.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
quickmover
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:51 am

TWA
50 318/319
22 or so 717s
 
whitehatter
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):

And British Caledonian was also due to be the launch customer of the A320 but their aircraft was murdered, sorry painted in BA colours.

It did look good in BCal livery too! There's a picture of one about somewhere.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
col
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:54 am

SQ MD11 and ANA 340 come to mind.

Col
 
Dougloid
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:55 am

Singapore Airlines 20 MD 11s order cancelled
JAT 2 MD11s taken over by American Airlines.
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planesailing
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 7):
Quoting BCAL (Reply 5):

And British Caledonian was also due to be the launch customer of the A320 but their aircraft was murdered, sorry painted in BA colours.

It did look good in BCal livery too! There's a picture of one about somewhere.

 
BCAL
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:10 am

Well done Plainsailing. I could only find it in black and white. Does anyone know what registration was adopted by BA for that aircraft?

Quote:
G3746 On page six of the publicity booklet, published by the Public Relations Department of British Aerospace, Civil Aircraft Division, at Filton in Bristol, is an explanation of the A320 Airliner, and its design concepts, with diagrams. This unique photograph shows the A320 in its British Caledonian livery. The text and diagram above it explains the benefits of fly-by-wire!




Source http://www.aviationarchive.org.uk/Gpages/html/G3746.html

All aircraft look good in the BCal livery. The blue and gold cheatline and the Golden Lion on the tails really stood out from the crowd. The similar design adopted by Caledonian that went on to become JMC was never as good.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
buckieboy
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:10 am

Planesailing,

The photo is cool!

Do you know whether this is G-BUSB; the second revenue A320 (and a 'plane that I flew to Glasgow, nonetheless, earlier this year)?

Cheers

Buckieboy
I'm taking orders from bottles of wine
 
blsbls99
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:13 am

Transbrazil 757
Alaska 767
Air India L1011 (LOI)
Egyptair DC-10-30 (on its way to being signed prior to the American Chicago crash)
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
B742
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:13 am

Quite recently, Air Canada (AC) with the 777/787 series!

Rob!  Smile
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:20 am

Pretty much every airline that ordered the Boeing 2707SST.
Others that come to mind are:
Continental A340s
Northwest A340s
Lufthansa 728Jets
CSA 728Jets
 
galapagapop
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:26 am

AA L1011 comes to mind.
 
andz
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:29 am

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 6):
TWA
50 318/319
22 or so 717s

Also the TWA order for A330 never materialized either. They did get several 717's though so don't know if that counts.

[Edited 2005-09-15 23:33:49]
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HMUcfm56
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:36 am

Hi,

the following airlines ordered the concorde...:
Iran Air
CAAC
Qantas
Eastern
Air Canada
Air India
American
Braniff
JAL
Lufthansa
MEA
Sabena
TWA
United
Continental
PanAm

...all orders cancelled!

regards, Michael
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
What are some orders from various airlines over the years that were never filled?

Oh man! If you look hard enough, there are plenty! Off the top of my head (and I'm sorry, but some will be repeated above):

MD-11:
Singapore Airlines
AOM French
JAT Airways
Air Europe


777:
Euralair
Gulf Air
South African Airways
TransBrasil

A330:
TWA
Continental Airlines

A340:
Swissair
Northwest Airlines
Continental Airlines
All Nippon Airways

747-400:
Alitalia

767:
Monarch (direct purchase)
Continental (-300ER's)
Finnair (unsure if these were direct purchase or lease)

Then there's also those deals that could have been, but for one reason or another, never went from options the airline took out into firm orders:

777:
Virgin Atlantic Airways
Tower Air
Ethiopian (actually, I believe these remain on the books, but with the 787 order, I don't see it happening)

767:
Royal Jordanian
Croatia Airlines
Olympic Airways
Air Ukraine

747-400:
Pakistan Int'l Airlines


Regards,

Hamlet69
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Joelatbsl
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:40 am

Sabena did actually get some A319s delivered. Three A319s are soldiering with SN Brussels Airlines these days.

Old LX (Crossair) had ordered heaps of Embraers 170 and 190. Dunno if SWISS will ever get them...

JOEL
 
westjet_8
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:57 am

Wardair ordered both MD88's and Fokker 100's before it was bought out.
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zippyjet
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Valujet: 717 (yes, I KNOW that Valujet is now AirTran...but "Critter" was dead and buried by the time the 717 was rolled out)

The 717 was still the MD 95.

Quoting HMUcfm56 (Reply 19):
Hi,

the following airlines ordered the concorde...:
Iran Air
CAAC
Qantas
Eastern
Air Canada
Air India
American
Braniff
JAL
Lufthansa
MEA
Sabena
TWA
United
Continental
PanAm

...all orders cancelled!

regards, Michael

And, believe it or not, Eastern, Pan Am and Delta that I knew of ordered a bird that never got off the drawing board. That bird of fancy was The Boeing 2707!  airplane 
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Falcon Flyer
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:38 am

Minerve had also ordered the MD-11 prior to folding.
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SWISSER
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Joelatbsl (Reply 21):
Old LX (Crossair) had ordered heaps of Embraers 170 and 190. Dunno if SWISS will ever get them...

99% not, so we could put SWISS on the list too!

SN had A319/A320/A321 in the fleet at the time of the demise but only 15% of the total order.
What time is top of descent?
 
B2707SST
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:49 pm


AIRLINE Concorde B2707
Aer Lingus - 2
Air Canada 4 6
Air France 8* 6
Air India 2 2
Airlift Int. - 1
Alitalia - 6
American 6 6
BOAC 8** 6
Braniff 3 2
Canadian Pac. - 3
Continental 3 3
Delta - 3
Eastern 6 6
El Al - 2
Iberia - 3
JAL 3 5
KLM - 6
Lufthansa 3 3
Middle East 2 -
Northwest - 6
Pakistan Int. - 2
Pan American 8 15
Qantas 4 6
Sabena 2 -
Trans-Am. - 1
TWA 6 12
United 6 6
World - 3
----- -----
TOTALS 74 122

* Later reduced to 4, took delivery of 4 + 3 white tails
** Later reduced to 5, took delivery of 5 + 2 white tails

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:01 pm

Air India's initial 757 order. IIRC got cancelled only months later.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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aireuropeuk733
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:40 pm

Air Europe in the UK was, I think, to be the launch customer for the RR Trent powered MD11.

They had earmarked the reg's G-MDII and G-OALN.

As we all know the RR powered MD11 never happened and the airline went bust before any deliveries.

AE733
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cornish
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:47 pm

Iraqi Airways 4 A310s - stil technically sitting on the order book I think.

didn't HP order either A318s or A321s but changed the order over to another family member - A319s?

Kenya Airways 767-400ERs - changed to 777s.
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a300
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:52 pm

Iran Air
1) B747-186B: Only 1 of the 4 delivered due to US sanctions (1980).
2) B737-486: 12 (+options) ordered but not delivered (1993), see #1.
3) A330: 4 ordered but not delivered (2001), see #1.
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olympicbis
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:01 pm

OA :
3 767-284ERs ordered but then cancelled - replaced by 7 X B737-484s
8 X B737-800s ordered, then replaced by 11 X 737-700s + 4 X 737-800s whic were all cancelled afterwards
They also had ordered 3 X A300-605rs, one of which was cancelled
They did even take an option for a B747-400 at some time.....

Cheers
 
HAJFlyer
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:22 pm

Zambia Airways:

MD 11 (not sure whether it actually ever was a firm order or never got beyond a letter of intent). Their bankruptcy in 1995 ended any dreams of renewing their Fleet of ATR42, B732, DC10-30
 
WINGS
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 29):
Iraqi Airways 4 A310s - stil technically sitting on the order book I think.

I believe that Iraqi airways actually has 5x A310-300 on order. Most likely this order will be cancelled or exercised with another make.

Regards,
Wings
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OHLHD
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:35 am

Lauda ordered once a single 747-400 but it was changed to 777.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:48 am

Here's an oldie.

When NE merged w/DL in 1972, their (NE) order for 3 L1011s were cancelled.
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blsbls99
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:58 am

Trans Caribbean had ordered L-1011s also
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
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sammyk
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 27):
Air India's initial 757 order. IIRC got cancelled only months later.

I thought that was for Indian Airlines not Air India?
 
JoKeR
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:31 am

JAT -

02 - McDonnell Douglas MD-11 (late 1980's), plus two options
XX - Airbus A310-300 (late 1980's)
08 - Airbus A319 (1998)

Libyan Arab Airlines -

XX - Boeing 747-200B
XX - Airbus A300B4
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gr8slvrflt
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:44 am

Some further back are quite interesting:

United: Martin 303

Capital: Comet, L-188 Electra, Britannia, Convair 880

Eastern: Curtiss CW-20 (C-46)

Pan American: Republic Rainbow, Convair C-99, Comet
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
ETStar
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 20):
A340:
Swissair
Northwest Airlines
Continental Airlines
All Nippon Airways

Add Ethiopian to this. ET had ordered one 340 on lease, had it painted, had crew trained, then cancelled.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 20):

777:
Virgin Atlantic Airways
Tower Air
Ethiopian (actually, I believe these remain on the books, but with the 787 order, I don't see it happening)

re: ET, no official announcement has been made yet. Considering the order for 78s, don't think we will see 777s. If the need for the 77s was really there, we would have seen an order placed way before the 78s - the 78s also give it a cheaper and efficient alternative that can get to the most distant destinations nonstop out of ET's hub in ADD.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 38):
JAT -

02 - McDonnell Douglas MD-11 (late 1980's), plus two options
XX - Airbus A310-300 (late 1980's)
08 - Airbus A319 (1998)

Didn't know about those A310-300s, but they were interested in Fokker 100s then.

As for orders, JAT ordered two 747SP before switching to DC-10 later.

As for A319s, it's not over yet, my favorite minister, together with JAT menagement is in serious talks with Gemini Jets to get those eight A319s.  Big grin
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
JoKeR
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 41):
Didn't know about those A310-300s

Apparently as a 722 replacement believe it or not, but in those years it made sense, load factors were good, yields were high, they desperately needed something bigger in-between the 733s and the MD-11s.

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 41):
JAT ordered two 747SP before switching to DC-10 later.

I heard about the 747-200 Combi but not the SP. My, my, that would have been a stunning sight!

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 41):
they were interested in Fokker 100s then.

So they had the Fokkers in sight as well ha? Big grin Pity Ilic wasn't around at that time! Big grin
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:03 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 42):
Apparently as a 722 replacement believe it or not

I remember a photo of A310-300 in JAT book from 1987. Looking from that perspective, the plane was ideal for lucrative Middle Eastern routes with good load factor as well as for opening up some new markets. If you remember, JAT had few not so successful attempts in Indian and Chinese markets (Calcutta and Beijing).

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 42):
I heard about the 747-200 Combi but not the SP.

I had more details on that but I can't find it right now. If I remember right, everything was settled and JAT changed its mind over night. Looking at planes now (can see them landing and taking off from my window) even DC-10s were awesome sight.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 42):
Pity Ilic wasn't around at that time!

Oh, almost forgot the breaking news. Deal with Gemini Jets is off due to high prices. Currently Ilic is negotiating with Herpa to get A319s together with airport buildings. Now, he can play all day long.  biggrin 

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 42):
So they had the Fokkers in sight as well

Yes, but the price of the planes was too high for JAT then. As a teenager, I've read every article, so I remember that too.

Interestingly, back in late 1980s many manufacturers offered their products to JAT. Just as replacement of DC-10s, Airbus offered their A340, Boeing offered their 767-300ER (if you remember Niki Lauda arrived in Belgrade on its brand new 767 and took journalists on the short flight) and McDonnell Douglas won with MD-11.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:16 am

Alaskaalso had an order for a 747-190.
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PSAjet17
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:24 am

The original PSA ordered 5 L-1011s from Lockheed in the 70's. After taking delivery of the first two and realizing that they did not fit well into the PSA operation, they refused delivery on the last three.

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konrad
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:42 am

LOT was supposedly one of the launch customers for 737NG.

LOT had some 73G/738s on order but didn't buy them in the end (happy with the 734/735 classics plus downsizing and going for EMB-170/190 family instead).
 
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breiz
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:04 am

Quoting Buckieboy (Reply 12):
Do you know whether this is G-BUSB

Well it might be.
A320-110 c/n 0006 was flown in February '88 in full British Caledonian colours as G-BRSA. It was promptly repainted to be delivered to British Aw. the 31.03.88 as G-BUSB.

A320-110 c/n 0008 was also painted in full BCal cs, but not registered as such (G-BRSB).

A320-110 c/n 0011 never got the BCal cs.
 
AirWest
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:30 am

American Eagle and Express Airlines I either had options or orders for the SAAB 2000, I can't remember which.
"And now I wish I was somewhere other than here"- JB
 
Cruiser
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RE: Orders That Were Never Fulfilled

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 14):
Quite recently, Air Canada (AC) with the 777/787 series!

Not to take this thread off-topic, but I have heard that the issues surrounding the deal should be sorted out in the 'near future.' This was posted in another forum when AC management met with AS Super Elite passengers in LHR just this week. Of course, the delivery slots will be changed somewhat.

James
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