ASTROJET707
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:35 am

As I love to fly I try not to make blanket statements. But what is up with HP? On a recent business trip I had regionals DFW-PHX-FAT-PHX-TUS. We left DFW a few minutes late, arrived at the "gate" in PHX @ 1244 and I exited the jet at 1259pm. Why? Gate agents removed all four wheelechair passengers first. The wheelchair assists had trouble navigating the chairs up the ramp. This while rampers are trying to place gate checked bags by the door. What a clusterfuck. What ever happened to dress for success? Poorly dressed an groomed staff in FAT and TUS. The CRJ from FAT to PHX had the row numbers missing from the bins. The emergency exit window looked like a caulking gun was used to seal it in place.

On another note, all four flights had screaming infants and toddlers(nothing to do with HP). Self absorbed parents too busy reading mags and books to tend to their offspring. I understand this is the age of Canadair and Embraer but god dam. I generally fly to a larger airport to avoid regionals, but this trip I was time constrained as well as price. I completely understand many folks are price sensitive, but we are all paying the "price". After the trip I felt like I needed a vacation from the screaming kids, the RJs. The guy on the flight from DFW to PHX I presumed did not bath and use deoderant, as he was riper than a can of garbage on a PHX tarmac. Add to that the horrific SHIT one of the screaming kids took that permeated the entire cab. The mom did not take the kid to lav. The kid sat in shit for the flight. One has to buy a ticket to fly but not reproduce. BTW, when gate agents ask you to gate check your bag, They are not being BITCHES, just doing their job tomake flying safe and easier for everyone. SO GATE CHECK YOUR FRIGGIN BAGS IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT.
Thanks for reading. I feel better already.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9605
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:48 am

Well I am sorry you had a bad flight. Though you might want to notice that some of your complaints are actually not against any America West employees. Many of your comments are just complaining about society, which no one cares to read.

As for your post. I am glad you got out your frustration, but please avoid complaing rambling posts. If you want to give a real complaint about the service where people will take you more seriously, then write a trip report with better documentation than "that guy on the flight" in your rant. Of if you think something needs to be changed, then write a polite yet convincing letter to HP's service department. People really do read those letters.

Hopefully your next flight will be better.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:57 am

On the contrary, this was a great post!

The point was, one customer thinks HP is slipping, and he gave a few amusing reasons why. Makings for a good thread.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:12 am

It is odd that the wheelchair passengers were deplaned first. Usually they are deplaned last.

AAndrew
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:17 am

The only time I flew HP there was a delay at the PHX gate because the person operating the jetbridge couldnot get it fitted into the door so they had to try a couple of times.....everyone in the cabin had a huge laugh about it.

anyways I don't really get the point of your topic.....what does HP have to do with your complaints, probably the only valid one is that there are no number on the overhead bins on some of their CRJ ( i was a victim myself and sat in row 6 rather than 5) it's ok most people will get over such a simple mistake.....but seriousl do you expect HP to have an Smell-O-meter or a tranquilizer gun for babies onboard like the other airlines do...I mean it's the people we live with
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
As I love to fly I try not to make blanket statements. But what is up with HP? On a recent business trip I had regionals DFW-PHX-FAT-PHX-TUS. We left DFW a few minutes late, arrived at the "gate" in PHX @ 1244 and I exited the jet at 1259pm. Why? Gate agents removed all four wheelechair passengers first. The wheelchair assists had trouble navigating the chairs up the ramp. This while rampers are trying to place gate checked bags by the door. What a clusterfuck. What ever happened to dress for success? Poorly dressed an groomed staff in FAT and TUS. The CRJ from FAT to PHX had the row numbers missing from the bins. The emergency exit window looked like a caulking gun was used to seal it in place.



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Well I am sorry you had a bad flight. Though you might want to notice that some of your complaints are actually not against any America West employees.

Rose-let's go further. NONE of his complaints are about America West employees...his flights were operated by Mesa, who's operation has been rehashed on this board ad nauseum.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
Posts: 1311
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:34 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 3):
It is odd that the wheelchair passengers were deplaned first.

I agree. Usually its the people standing who are fighting for the door first.

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
On a recent business trip I had regionals DFW-PHX-FAT-PHX-TUS

Does HP take full responsibility or write procedure for it's regional carriers? I don't know..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:57 am

Yes, just to confirm what SHU said, the flights were all Mesa flights. Sorry, but no HP employee can claim to know the inner workings of Mesa, just like no Mesa employee understands the inner workings of Mesa thus resulting in a very confused airline. Sorry that all your flights had to be on those regionals, mainline HP might have been a much different experience. But then, smelly people and crying babies are everywhere.
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:39 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:11 am

But to the public, most of the public, America West Express is America West. We know it is not the case. But the average Joe does not know the intricacies of Mesa flying under the America West Express logo.

I pointed out the issues separate from HP. And from SHUPirate1, save your childish let's go no further bullshit for someone else. When you get some life experience under your belt come back and we'll chat again.
And if you read the email I state the HP and the flying public issues are separate. I did not run a search of Mesa. Why not try adding facts, data and references to/for other posts rather than being caddy.
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 6):
Rose-let's go further. NONE of his complaints are about America West employees...his flights were operated by Mesa, who's operation has been rehashed on this board ad nauseum.

Well, he doesn't seem to complain about the flight crews, only about the ground crews, passengers, and equipment. While the equipment was obviously Mesa's, and the passengers obviously not attributable to any airline, the ground crews at all the stations (except perhaps FAT, not sure there) are all America West employees.

That being said, he certainly does seem like a bit of a baby.  Big grin
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:27 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
the ground crews at all the stations (except perhaps FAT, not sure there) are all America West employees.


Actually this is entirely incorrect. In PHX, all Mesa flights are operated by Mesa CSR's and Mesa ramp agents. The only thing HP does for Mesa is check people in and rebook the thousands of people whom Mesa displaces. We have nothing to do with the operation of their flights. As to DFW and TUS I am not sure what the case is. Nevertheless, still a needless thread.  Smile

[Edited 2005-09-16 02:29:06]
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:42 am

Quoting ASTROJET707 (Reply 9):
I pointed out the issues separate from HP.

Well, in that case, why is the topic "I do not understand HP"?

Quoting ASTROJET707 (Reply 9):
And from SHUPirate1, save your childish let's go no further bullshit for someone else. When you get some life experience under your belt come back and we'll chat again.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was just stating that perhaps some of your gripes regarding America West's employees are probably better directed towards Mesa instead. Let's please not turn this into a flamefest.

Quoting ASTROJET707 (Reply 9):
Why not try adding facts, data and references to/for other posts rather than being caddy.

None of the other posts were factually inaccurate to the point where the entire argument shifts based on their inaccurate point. Yours was. And as far as trying to add facts and data, I believe I did exactly that.

Again, I don't mean to insult you. Rather, I am constructively stating that perhaps your arguments would be better directed in another direction.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 11):
Actually this is entirely incorrect. In PHX, all Mesa flights are operated by Mesa CSR's and Mesa ramp agents. The only thing HP does for Mesa is check people in and rebook the thousands of people whom Mesa displaces. We have nothing to do with the operation of their flights. As to DFW and TUS I am not sure what the case is.

Yes, you're right, I wasn't being clear. I meant the outstations. DFW and TUS are definitely HP stations, even though TUS doesn't see any mainline flights. As I said, I'm not sure about FAT.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 13):
As I said, I'm not sure about FAT.

I believe it is a Mesa station. Mesa usually is the one advertising FAT positions on its website.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:07 am

I Do Not Understand "This Thread"....

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
We left DFW a few minutes late, arrived at the "gate" in PHX @ 1244 and I exited the jet at 1259pm.

Are you upset at the 15 minutes?

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
I generally fly to a larger airport to avoid regionals

Lately, a "LARGER" airport is a guarantee of nothing....anything less than 1250nM is a candidate; unless one chooses just not to fly...

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
I completely understand many folks are price sensitive, but we are all paying the "price". After the trip I felt like I needed a vacation from the screaming kids, the RJs. The guy on the flight from DFW to PHX I presumed did not bath and use deoderant, as he was riper than a can of garbage on a PHX tarmac. Add to that the horrific SHIT one of the screaming kids took that permeated the entire cab. The mom did not take the kid to lav. The kid sat in shit for the flight. One has to buy a ticket to fly but not reproduce. BTW, when gate agents ask you to gate check your bag, They are not being BITCHES, just doing their job tomake flying safe and easier for everyone. SO GATE CHECK YOUR FRIGGIN BAGS IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT.

Whoa...that's a big-load, but what could have America West done differently?
Seriously, why is any of this Mesa's or HP's fault?

So because of your fellow passengers, loosing 15 minutes, and spotting a less-than-perfectly groomed employee; You don't "UNDERSTAND" America West?
Hmmm.
Delete this User
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
the ground crews at all the stations (except perhaps FAT, not sure there) are all America West employees.

Continental runs the ground work for America West at OKC. Myself and the nicest CSR I've ever met had a nice conversation about HP/US and whatnot in July... she was definitely from CO... and had nothing good to say about Mesa, but she all but assured me there would be 70 seat "RJ's" running PHL-OKC by "this time next year," at which point US/HP would do their own ground work.
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

I think it's funny when people who fly to little cities like TUS and FAT start complaining about flying on the RJ. They're lucky they get a jet in the first place. It wasn't too long ago that flights like that were flown by Beach 1900s, twin otters, and J32s.
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
Poorly dressed an groomed staff in FAT and TUS.

Gasp!! I work in TUS and I am always dressed nice and well groomed....honestly I don't know of anyone who isn't that I work with...can't speak for FAT of course since they are Mesa.

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 7):
Does HP take full responsibility or write procedure for it's regional carriers? I don't know..

Unfortunately we do take responsibility (most of the time) for their actions but we do not write policy for them....we have guidelines but they still do things "their" way...which wasn't a problem when we only used them minimally. Now that they operate a huge number of flights for us, things are more noticeable.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 17):
I think it's funny when people who fly to little cities like TUS and FAT start complaining about flying on the RJ. They're lucky they get a jet in the first place. It wasn't too long ago that flights like that were flown by Beach 1900s, twin otters, and J32s.

Little cities? TUS has almost 1 million people in it and surrounding areas...doesn't sound little to me. We had 12 full size jet flights (737 and Airbus) up until 9/11 when they started to dwindle. So actually we are still getting used to having these smaller (86) passenger planes. We rarely had turboprops.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4693
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 7):
Does HP take full responsibility or write procedure for it's regional carriers? I don't know..

No, Mesa operates under a totally separate guidebook. Sometimes HP or Mesa likes an idea the other has and adopts it, but as a rule they run as separate airlines.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 15):
spotting a less-than-perfectly groomed employee;

It's not that uncommon on any airline, not just HP. I hope this is only referring to cabin crew since some of the rampers I know bring "less-than-perfectly groomed" to a new level. But I've seen some disheveled FAs, male and female...it sometimes happens when the plane departs at 5:35 am and therefore you have to wake up butt-ass early half the time not having time to take a shower if you want any rest over the minimum.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:58 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 18):
Little cities? TUS has almost 1 million people in it and surrounding areas...doesn't sound little to me. We had 12 full size jet flights (737 and Airbus) up until 9/11 when they started to dwindle. So actually we are still getting used to having these smaller (86) passenger planes. We rarely had turboprops.

While TUS may not be little as a stand alone city, you have to admit, it is just that, a stand alone city. TUS has no real suburbs like PHX, therefore no where near the amount of traffic, a lot of the town is college town. So no, TUS is not small, but it's also not part of a large metropolitan district. Plus it looks small when flying over it, preparing for finals into PHX. :P
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:03 pm

True to a point but we have a huge number of business travellers who come here for meetings. One of our largest destinations on HP is TUS-SNA and other LA area airports. We also have a lot of vacationers coming to visit the many resorts in town, not to mention a large amount of celebrities that come through to go to Canyon Ranch and Miraval. It's smaller compared to PHX of course but we have a good amount of air traffic. TUS is more popular than I could have ever imagined growing up on the east coast..lol.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
av8rphx
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:10 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:07 pm

just like no Mesa employee understands the inner workings of Mesa thus resulting in a very confused airline.

First off, Bridogger, you're a tool. Secondly there are many of us at Mesa that do understand the "inner workings" of our company. However with that being said, we can only do as good as we are given the opportunity to. Yes many times our operation is "subpar". We are operating under constraints that HP places on us for the most part. So to say that we are clueless at Mesa is just asinine. I invite you to come over to my side some day and I'll show you the "inner workings".

Gate agents removed all four wheelechair passengers first. The wheelchair assists had trouble navigating the chairs up the ramp

Gate agents do not remove wheelchair pax in PHX, a private company, Prospect is contracted by HP to handle wheelchair/disabled pax.

Poorly dressed an groomed staff in FAT and TUS. The CRJ from FAT to PHX had the row numbers missing from the bins.

Im sorry but when you run a plane 9-10 legs in a day, it isnt going to be in pristine shape,I dont blame Mesa as much as i do the passengers who have no regard for aircraft, and it doesnt just happen on Mesa, it happens on DL,NW,HP, pretty much any airline.

BTW, when gate agents ask you to gate check your bag, They are not being BITCHES, just doing their job tomake flying safe and easier for everyone. SO GATE CHECK YOUR FRIGGIN BAGS IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT.

These are regional jets, the bins are long but very shallow depth wise. MOST carry on bags will not fit with the exeption of the very small roller bags, laptop cases and some lightly packed backpacks. It has nothing to do with safety, just the fact that the bins are smaller. We know that your roller bag fit on the A320/737 whatever that you came on before, but when we tell you your bag will not fit, we are speaking from experience, it is not like we havent done this before.... well most of us.


/rant
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:11 pm

DFW-PHX is mostly mainline with one or two RJ's mixed in. Next time get on one of the mainline flights.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4473
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 18):
Little cities? TUS has almost 1 million people in it and surrounding areas...doesn't sound little to me.

Tucson is the 53rd largest metro area in the US, Fresno is 59th. I guess they're telling us only the 50 largest metro areas deserve mainline.  Wink
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:16 pm

Av8r....I and a lot of HP employees appreciate the hard work you guys do. I understand that you guys go through a lot of crap...I heard horror stories of the ramp fiasco up in PHX this summer....2 or 3 rampers unloading and loading several planes....that just sucks.

We had a cluster f--- today with a couple flights that were messed up due to MX and over fueling. A flight attendant on a flight that was ontime sent one of our rampers up to the gate after I closed the flight to tell me that they had an extra seat if we wanted to get someone else on. She knew we were in a mess and I was very impressed that she did that.

You guys do a great job....I just wish your management was better and ran a better operation.

 Smile
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
av8rphx
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:10 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:34 pm

Flyboyaz,
Lets just say that I am crosstrained (started as a ramper).. and I have loaded several planes by myself this summer. The latest one I loaded was a 900 going to SAT last week, 97 bags on my own. Loaded the bags, went back upstairs and boarded the pax. Today we had several people from Mesa corporate out auditing the operation, so maybe things are changing for the better... one can only hope..

[Edited 2005-09-16 06:35:09]
 
N200WN
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:09 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:34 pm

Wow...I really enjoyed your trip report. If it makes you feel any better there should be a lot less kids flying now that Labor Day has past and most families have settled back into their routines. Hopefully your next trip will go well.
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Av8rPHX (Reply 26):
Flyboyaz,
Lets just say that I am crosstrained (started as a ramper).. and I have loaded several planes by myself this summer. The latest one I loaded was a 900 going to SAT last week, 97 bags on my own. Loaded the bags, went back upstairs and boarded the pax. Today we had several people from Mesa corporate out auditing the operation, so maybe things are changing for the better... one can only hope..

Wow....that's a lot of work dude....I hope things change for the better too. Now I know why it takes PHX an hour to turn a plane sometimes..lol
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
uafedexflyboy
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:30 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 19):
No, Mesa operates under a totally separate guidebook. Sometimes HP or Mesa likes an idea the other has and adopts it, but as a rule they run as separate airlines

Actually...per our contract with HP we have to operate our flights according to your policies. Yes we have a different SOM, yes we have a different GOM, but that's because the FAA sees us as a different airline and says we have to have them.

Bridogger6, obviously you have a stick up your butt about Mesa and I'd be willing to venture a guess that you've worked the PAC counter on N3 or N4 recently. Unfortunately you seemed to have done some brain damage when inserting the aforementioned "stick" because Mesa doesn't "displace" pax anymore then HP does or for any reason other then the reasons HP does. You really need to get over the mentality that HP is "better" then Mesa cause it's getting old. As was said previously...the pax see us as ONE airline and unless we can get employees like yourself to realize this, the situation will never...get...better!!

[Edited 2005-09-16 08:24:59]
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:29 pm

America West actually does all the ground handling in LAS. I know the gate agents hate working Mesa flights, since pax bitch about the carry-on check, the planes also are usually late or delayed.

On the ground it's a different story. We love working Mesa flights, that is unless the pilots park in the wrong gates which they sadly often do. We get the same amount of people to work the flight but less bags; and you can actually stand up in the bin too, it's taller than any other plane we have. But the best part of working a Mesa flight is that it's almost always delayed, usually coming into LAS, and often leaving as well. This means we get to chill in the breakroom until the flight comes in    .. Then the plane will usually be late leaving due to the pilots paperwork, and we'll get another mini-break. It's quite nice, and very predictable.

[Edited 2005-09-16 10:30:44]
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:59 pm

as an hp gold elite, i laugh at certain comments above, and then commend others. as to our phx hp emp here, you work double time, trust me, when i have longer hp layovers, i'll walk the concourses, and the B concourse since express has mostly taken that over is always chaotic. flights change from one gate to the next to the other and still find a fourth. with the maint hangar there, pax dont realize how prone express flights are there simply that before sending a plane to an outstation, they have to complete progressive maint here and there even if the plane isnt down, they have to get it done before they send it out. csa and ramp agents work doubletime in phx for express, and i am sure at half the pay, so i have to say, keep it up. we'll have to meet up for lunch my next trip through.

another comment, half the people on these boards make me laugh when discussing flying on rj's. ten years ago or so, pax use to bitch and bitch and bitch when flying on props. props efficiently served markets affordably that otherwise wouldnt have nonstop service. with the invention of the rj, same thing, but just a lil quicker, and everybody ooohhhhed and aaahhhed on how comfortable the first rj, the crj was. (only complaint you always heard were how low the windows were). well, then came the erj, then came the dojet, then a bigger crj, a bigger erj, and gosh damn, 10 years later, pax again are complaining, moaning and griping about flying on a rj. well, remember, and i dont like the crj at all, at least the -200 model, but, it serves markets that would normally have no nonstop service at all, or second scenario, as with hp and the dfw-phx market, and i'm sure many other carriers do the same, the rj fills in the gap between flights that are served with mainline a/c during peak hub pushes. what i mean, as with hp, their phx hub is easy to understand. flights departing to the west coast depart 7am ish, 10am ish, 1pm ish, and so forth. flights to the east depart at 9am ish, 12pmish, 3pmish and further on, so, hp sends mainline a/c to the major cities usually at those hub pushes, but during the offtime, let's say to the east from phx, they can still fill an rj with the amount of O&D traffic that flies that certain route at the off-time, like the 7am rj flight to dfw, or maybe at 2pm. not exactly during the main hub push to the east, but at an offtime where an rj will fill up, mainline wouldnt. based upon the high O&D traffic also on that route, during a nonhub push time to the east, hp can fill the rj or at least with better yield to a market like dfw, and then also that frees up seats on the mainline flights for other pax from connecting markets in the system.

another point, there are so many markets that without the rj would never have nonstop service because of lower O&D traffic, and come on, just look at a route map. the rj has the capability of grabbing a small amount of O&D, but also filling the rest by connecting smaller cities with larger hubs. out of phx on hp, the rj created markets to communities like eugene and medford, billings and kalispell (which sold so well went mainline during the summer), monterey, bakersfield and san luis obispo in calif, and think about their newer route, sioux falls. some cities that have the rj now like fresno and santa barbara were previously flown with emb120. the rj shaved probably 30min off each of those routes with more seats avail as well.

overall, i think its a give and take, live everything in the world. smaller cities were able to get service that was faster, quicker, cheaper, better and more comfortable, but at a loss, you cant carry your bag on, oh well. win some and lose some. just wait thought, i am waiting for some airline to get smart and not even order a/c with overhead bins, that would take care of so many problems, delays, and other complaints that pax have and we hear on this forum all the time.

but anyways, to joe in tus and all the others in phx for hp, good job!!! keep it up
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting UAFedExFlyBoy (Reply 29):
Mesa doesn't "displace" pax anymore then HP does or for any reason other then the reasons HP does.

I mean no offense to you at all as it isn't your fault, but yes Mesa does displace MANY more people than HP does. Believe me, I was there when we had our own problems and you guys were the saints. Well the roles have been reversed and as HP employees, we take the blame for things we have no control over...nor does our airline! It sucks big time dude....I've been with HP for just over 5 years and I got beat up when I started with our own problems, we fixed that and then they took all our planes away and the mess continued with Mesa.

I blame HP too for the reason that it took them forever to finally say..hey what f--- are you guys doing? We complained to our management for about 3 years that YV has some major problems and they all just ignored us basically. Finally after the delays got so bad (and very expensive) and our congressman complained to Doug Parker too...they decided to do some investigating.

I really do hope things change after the merger. Most of us have given up that things will get better.....they do for a while but then it starts all over again.

If you compare YV to say RJ (ExpressJet), you can see that YV has major problems. We have on average at least 3 RJ flights a day for CO and in the 4 years or so that they have been using them in TUS, I can count on 1 hand the number of mechanical delays we've had....big difference.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 31):
but anyways, to joe in tus and all the others in phx for hp, good job!!! keep it up

Thanks Rob! Hey...don't you owe me lunch too? lol  Smile
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting Astrojet707 (Thread starter):
On another note, all four flights had screaming infants and toddlers(nothing to do with HP). Self absorbed parents too busy reading mags and books to tend to their offspring.

i think that airlines should do something to force parents traveling with children to sit with them. for instance, i was flying on a DL flight from DEN to ATL on a 767 and was seated by the window with my wife. a parent couple decided to sit their two children behind us and they sat across the aisle, oblivious to the kicking and yelling and regular annoyances that the kids were putting us through.

the parents just read their magazines, chatted, etc.

perhaps airlines should make it impossible for two kids to be seated next to each other. a parent needs to sit next to each kid at all times. that would solve a lot of problems.

obviously, single parents with three kids would find this impossible, so there would have to be exceptions. but the principle is something that airlines could look into.
 
F9Widebody
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 5):
If they wanted to be off the plane first, they should learn to walk like the rest of us...  

They have schools for learning how to walk after having been paralyzed now?
YES URLS in signature!!!
 
yokohama1970
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:50 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:56 am

DFW & TUS are fully staffed with our AWA Ticket Counter, Gate & Ground Ops Agents. So In DFW & TUS, you were handled by AWA Employees. With that, what up DB @ DFW & Joe (FlyboyAZ) @ TUS?!

As for PHX, welcome to Mesa's on-going employee retention nightmare! Can't speak for FAT, haven't the slightest idea who handles what @ that station?
Thank You Derek! Good Luck with the LA Dodgers
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:58 pm

Sorry, first of all I did not mean any offense to any Mesa employees, I know you guys do work very hard and you do good for what you do. However, Mesa does have a fairly high turnover rate and that results in more and more employees unadequately trained and it results in Mesa being understaffed, nothing the employees have any control over.

I have to say, Mesa employees in general are far nicer than any of the HP employees I deal with every day... just the management for Mesa sucks. Again, sorry didn't mean to offend you so if I said anything that did, I retract my comments.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:10 pm

on my next trip through phx, find a seat up to phx, and yes joe, you get lunch too. haven't been to the top yet, but term 4 has a bunch of new businesses up top i hear. since prescott service got discontinued, i've been flying out of flagstaff to get into phx, that way i am only connecting through, and rarely am i outside security
 
qxq400
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:42 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:29 pm

If I remember right HP uses Mesa for there regional carrier. Well I do not hold HP very high,I think Mesa is lower than Whale S..t.
Why? just read the post, this is there normal service. Not just a bad flight.
I have NEVER experienced or heard of anyone having a decent flight with HP Express.
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: I Do Not Understand HP....

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23):
Tucson is the 53rd largest metro area in the US, Fresno is 59th. I guess they're telling us only the 50 largest metro areas deserve mainline.

ABE is 63rd (I think, don't have the chart on hand right now) and we only get mainline from Hooters, Transmeridian, US (1x A319 to CLT) and NW DC-9, for now, disappearing very soon. There isn't much mainline to many under-50 cities anymore, welcome to RJ-Mania!

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 31):
We have on average at least 3 RJ flights a day for CO and in the 4 years or so that they have been using them in TUS, I can count on 1 hand the number of mechanical delays we've had....big difference.

While I will say that ExpressJet is on a tier of their own among regionals, with only AWAC in a competitive range, I've been victim to 2 mechanical delays with them this summer. One was in IND, on -500 weekend, when the mechanical was going to cause the plane to get into IND late, hence leaving IND late, and blowing my late-evening connections. The other was here in ABE when we overheated an APU because of an extended wait on the ground due to balance issues and a brief passing TSRA after that. (Equipment was substituted from a -135 to a -145 late... and the seating computers didn't put anyone behind row 12 thinking the plane would still be a -135, causing a big mess for the F/A to balance us out.)
Moral of the story: All planes go mechanical, some just more than others as a nature of the beast, but I would hope that Mesa's a/c maintenance is up to par as far as keeping their planes as reliable as anyone else's. That said, they do own Air Midwest, whose maintenance has come under scrutiny before (partial cause of B1900 accident in CLT) and their mechanical flight delays/cancellations in PIT on the EAS routes were too numerous to count.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos