N670UW
Topic Author
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AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:40 am

Didn't see this coming.

American Airlines announced plans to pull out of Pittsburgh in December, leaving its flights to its subsidiary, American Eagle.

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_258192011.html

A little surprising. Within the last 18 months, American has added a fourth and fifth MD-80 frequency to DFW from PIT, and I was hoping MIA-PIT would return to mainline. I'm guessing the CRJ-700's are on their way.



N670UW
 
hiflyer
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:50 am

southwest wins another city from aa is the first thought.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 1):
southwest wins another city from aa is the first thought.

HOW???? Explain the logic before you go spewing out WN-loving bullshit. When you can logically explain to me how WN chased AA out of that market I'll be impressed.
 
September11
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:56 am

What surprises me is that there are NO Airliners.net photo of American Airlines mainline jets at PIT ... I hope I am not mistaken.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:59 am

CLE lost AA mainline last year.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
A330323X
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting N670UW (Thread starter):
Didn't see this coming.

American Airlines announced plans to pull out of Pittsburgh in December, leaving its flights to its subsidiary, American Eagle.

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_258192011.html

A little surprising. Within the last 18 months, American has added a fourth and fifth MD-80 frequency to DFW from PIT, and I was hoping MIA-PIT would return to mainline. I'm guessing the CRJ-700's are on their way.



N670UW

No, no, you must be mistaken. The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights. That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.  Silly
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
N670UW
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:12 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
HOW???? Explain the logic before you go spewing out WN-loving bullshit.

Wow.   



Anyway, I do agree Southwest likely didn't have much of an impact on this decision.

To say the least, it's rather difficult to get to Dallas on WN from Pittsburgh, and I really doubt Southwest draws much of the Pittsburgh-to-Dallas crowd. A nonstop with AA or US is much more convenient, or if you really want a great fare, fly AirTran through Atlanta.

While Southwest is also in the Pittsburgh-Chicago market, AA pulled mainline from that route years ago (or did they ever have mainline on that route?). And directly, AA and WN don't compete, in the Pittsburgh-South Florida market (yet    ).

I would think we could a similar announcement from NW in the coming weeks/months. Northwest has never been especially strong in Pittsburgh, and with the bankruptcy (and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come), I wouldn't be terribly surprised. Though NW maintains a nonstop monopoly on PIT-MSP//MEM, anything is possible.



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 02:17:31]
 
midway7
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:14 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
No, no, you must be mistaken. The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights. That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.

I've heard they prefer the WN-loving bullshit!
 
A330323X
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:23 am

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
I would think we could a similar announcement from NW in the coming weeks/months. Northwest has never been especially strong in Pittsburgh, and with the bankruptcy (and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come), I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

But NW is one of the prime exhibits in picking up the slack from US, by adding PIT-MKE. Of course, they quickly dropped it, but don't point that out to Kent and Dan.  Wink

Seriously, though, I wouldn't expect NW to pull out of PIT. The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while. I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
Though NW maintains a nonstop monopoly on PIT-MSP/DTW/MEM, anything is possible.

US continues to serve the PIT-DTW market. (Why exactly, I couldn't tell you...)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:27 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
Seriously, though, I wouldn't expect NW to pull out of PIT. The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while. I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

That is true for AA though so far they have not added any mainline back to CLE!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N670UW
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
I'd imagine that with NW in bankruptcy, they'll be able to achieve the necessary flexibility without having to go through the trouble of pulling mainline out of a station.

Good point.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
US continues to serve the PIT-DTW market.

I realized that after I posted. For some reason, I thought it was dropped in the MSP/MCI/IAH round.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
(Why exactly, I couldn't tell you...)

For the same reason they still serve PIT-CMH?



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 02:30:47]
 
stlgph
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
The PIT people have clearly stated on numerous occasions that other airlines would pick up the slack from US cutting flights.

what slack is there to pick up? US cut out a majority of connecting traffic, not local market traffic.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
flyibaby
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:35 am

I know AA is too big for what I'm about to say, but I can't help but wonder when American Eagle ends up being the predominant carrier for AMR.
 
NikonDFW
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:51 am

AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
That's clearly at odds with AA dropping mainline service. Kent George and Dan Onorato won't stand for you spouting such blasphemy.



Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
The whole reason AA and US pull mainline out of stations is so they can Express the station, paying lower wages, then bring back some mainline flights after a while.

Now now now, don't contradict yourself. Either bash PIT, or speak logically.

The O&D numbers are still climbing from the last available reports, to debunk that theory. (Listen... the WN cheerleaders are coming to take credit for that even though the climb began a year before WN cme to town). I'd say US with an E170 vs AA's Super 80s are probably helping US retain customers on that route as well. The E-jets are new, the Super 80's are... let's just say less-than new, and people notice crappy planes. AA also has some pretty crappy customer service in PIT from my few experiences with them in college, and hearing from an acquaintance who flew PIT-DFW weekly for most of a year who used the quote "Worse service than US at Philly on their worst days")

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
(and the likely returning of airplanes, including DC-9's, to come)

The DC-9's are owned, hence the reason they kept them all this time. The only thing they're going to be "returned" to is their melted form to turn them into coke cans.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
To say the least, it's rather difficult to get to Dallas on WN from Pittsburgh, and I really doubt Southwest draws much of the Pittsburgh-to-Dallas crowd

Amen. Unless people like flying PIT-MDW-Random place in TX/OK/LA/AR-DAL. That's their own perogative if so.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):

But NW is one of the prime exhibits in picking up the slack from US, by adding PIT-MKE. Of course, they quickly dropped it, but don't point that out to Kent and Dan. Wink

US couldn't make money on that route either. But who's successful on that route and even added a flight? That little tiny airline with fresh-baked cookies and Dumbo Jets whos kicking some CRJ-440's in their red tails in many markets from MKE. How anyone thought they could make money with 44-seat CRJ's selling bargain-basement fares is beyond me.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 10):

For the same reason they still serve PIT-CMH?

Used to be Nationwide Insurance. Might still be, because there WAS actually a memorandum spread around at corporate in Columbus stating how they are to avoid PHL connections at all costs because the company was losing too much productivity and money on hotel reservations when their employees would get stranded on blown connections in PHL and it wasn't US' responsibility to lodge them for the night because it was an "ATC/Wx related delay." I had a copy of it in my email from my aunt that I used to look at when I needed a good laugh. However, last I had heard, they ceased flying US all together for above reasons. But nah... customers love connecting in PHL so much that US is going to re-bank it to help with connecting flights, that could never happen.  Yeah sure

Also possible ideas would be Cardinal Health and BlueCross and UPMC business between the cities... along with Milan in MGW with the pharmaceutical branch of Cardinal in CMH. Hell, it's only a Saab anyways. There are nearly daily Biz jets and other little things going OSU/CMH-MGW roundtrips on Flytecomm. Sometime numerous a day.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):

While Southwest is also in the Pittsburgh-Chicago market, AA pulled mainline from that route years ago (or did they ever have mainline on that route?)

Haven't had it for years if they did have it. It was ERJ's my whole college career. US/UA with the code sharing and whatnot always dominated the ORD route, AA's prices were always considerably higher from personal experience as well. Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe, running 738's, then they left with the restructuring/WN Bailout, and shortly after that WN announced that PIT was "free to move about the country," or at least the 4 cities they served from PIT initially, all 4 of which were heavily served already.
 
iowaman
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 13):
AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad. All the more power to WN expansion in PIT.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 13):
AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

Surprised Dayton hasn't seen the same fate yet.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 9):

That is true for AA though so far they have not added any mainline back to CLE!

If they brought mainline this soon they'd be facing some serious lawsuits. There is a window in which they can't bring back mainline.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):

AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad.

AA is a business, not a charity. AA obviously cares enough about their employees to realize where cuts are needed in order to avert bankruptcy and keep their pensions. Can't say that about certain other airlines.
a.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees.

With all due respect, AA's management is there to make money. As MAH said -- AA is not a non-profit organization, it's a publicly traded company. Why must you personalize it and say that AA "sure don't care about their employees?" AA is not cutting mainline to stations and shifting them to Eagle for the sole purpose of screwing their employees. They have to cut their costs, and these markets obviously can't sustain mainline FY service, so they are moving to Eagle. That is market reality, that is economics. That's not "not caring about their employees."
 
stlgph
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 15):
AA does that a lot, they sure don't care about there employees. Sad. All the more power to WN expansion in PIT.

You can't blame AA. AA doesn't have the luxury of being able to screw ALL of their employees under bankruptcy court protection a la United, Delta, Northwest, US Airways. So they just do it one station at a time as it is warranted. Sucks for those at Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc., but it's for the "greater good" (John Stuart Mill).

[Edited 2005-09-16 03:46:13]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
N670UW
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:33 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe

AirTran flew PIT-MDW briefly in late 2001/early 2002. US threatened to throw some 733's on the route, but never did. AirTran subsequently pulled out of PIT-MDW/PHL/LGA and retreated to just PIT-ATL. PIT-MCO and PIT-FLL have since been added.

ATA really struggled on the route. They tried hard to get the route to work (lots of advertising, fare promotions, etc.), and even tried cutting frequencies before pulling out (and the subsequent tie-on with WN). No name recognition, heavy competition in the market, and lack of connections at MDW (compared to what's offered at ORD) did them in. Plus the one-class 738's were probably a little big for what they were trying to do.

Southwest appears to be doing well, adding two more flights before the end of the year.



N670UW

[Edited 2005-09-16 03:38:45]
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting N670UW (Reply 19):

ATA really struggled on the route. They tried hard to get the route to work (lots of advertising, fare promotions, etc.), and even tried cutting frequencies before pulling out (and the subsequent tie-on with WN).

I took advantage of a few of those fare promotions as a poor college student. Part of their problem was crappy timing. Really early morning, high noon, and really late at night was the timing for awhile. For some reason nobody wanted to pick me up at PIT at 11:55pm and then drive back to Uniontown, especially in the winter time. ATA just had too much plane on that route, as was evidenced by the fact of the 6 segments I took on that route, 4 of the times I got the whole row of the 737 to myself.

Edit for a typo of mixing up Airtran and ATA.

[Edited 2005-09-16 04:03:52]
 
N670UW
Topic Author
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 20):
Part of their problem was crappy timing. Really early morning, high noon, and really late at night was the timing for awhile.

Right. Shortly before they pulled out, I was looking into a trip to LAX. Thinking "I'll try the new guy at PIT," I checked into ATA. The fares were great, but they didn't have a mid-morning departure. It was either around 6:20 am or around 12:30 pm. I ended up going with UA, leaving around 8:40 am, which turned out fine anyway, the ORD-LAX leg was a 744. Big grin

A mid-morning and/or late afternoon/early evening departure from PIT could've really helped them out.



N670UW
 
A330323X
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
US couldn't make money on that route either. But who's successful on that route and even added a flight?

Who said anything about Midwest being successful on the route? Just because they're the only ones left running it doesn't mean they're necessarily making money on it.

(And, btw, I wouldn't be shocked to see US restart the route, in order to better route Air Wisconsin planes through the system.)

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
But nah... customers love connecting in PHL so much that US is going to re-bank it to help with connecting flights, that could never happen.

Only took 14 replies before a thread about AA at PIT turned into US at PHL.  Smile

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Haven't had it for years if they did have it. It was ERJ's my whole college career.

I'm pretty certain AA did run F100's on PIT-ORD back in the day.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Nobody had PIT-MDW direct until ATA came to town in '03 I believe, running 738's

AirTran ran PIT-MDW before ATA. US has run the route off-and-on through the years.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
stlgph
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting N670UW (Reply 21):
A mid-morning and/or late afternoon/early evening departure from PIT could've really helped them out.

Again, further missed opportunities by ATA.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
NikonDFW
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:58 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Surprised Dayton hasn't seen the same fate yet.

AFIK, DAY doesn't have any AA employees, AE or a contractor works all the flights there, so DAY's operating cost's are a little lower than some others, keeping a few MD-80s on the schedules.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
If they brought mainline this soon they'd be facing some serious lawsuits. There is a window in which they can't bring back mainline.

CLE would have to climb back up to something like 6-7 mainline flights a day, and keep them for at least a year or so to even consider bringing back AA employees.
 
paddy78
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 18):
You can't blame AA. AA doesn't have the luxury of being able to screw ALL of their employees under bankruptcy court protection a la United, Delta, Northwest, US Airways.

AA doesn't need that luxury, they screw their employees out in the open where everyone can see it.
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22):

I'm pretty certain AA did run F100's on PIT-ORD back in the day.

I'm only one or two grey hairs older than you, if at all... so "back in the day" would be before my days in Valparaiso and therefore paying a big amount of attention to ORD-PIT routings/planes.  old 

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22):
Only took 14 replies before a thread about AA at PIT turned into US at PHL

I only did that because I knew you were here... besides for me that was quite the mini tirade.  Wink I need to replace that needle in this record player though... I ordered my needle on eBay from a guy named Vega but he didn't deliver yet. I'm actually taking a trip through PHL on my own free will this weekend, I'm getting better you should be proud!

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22):

AirTran ran PIT-MDW before ATA. US has run the route off-and-on through the years.

My first ever voyage into MDW, I saw US was there and was like "wtf? they don't go here from PIT" (at that time they went EVERYWHERE from PIT), but it was only service to CLT. Once I went on a mini-mileage run a bit later because I got a great last minute fare to go home for a weekend and flew MDW-CLT-PIT-MGW, then returned MGW-PIT-ORD. Didn't bother me about the MDW/ORD thing because I took the bus to the airport from Merrillville, but learned my lessons about that and never did it again.

As for Airtran, back then I was still strictly US and wouldn't even think about another airline but US. I was from PIT, US was God, and all bowed down and paid homage (and high fares).
 
midway7
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22):
I'm pretty certain AA did run F100's on PIT-ORD back in the day.

AA flew M80's on the route in the late 80's. Flew one in 1987.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22):
AirTran ran PIT-MDW before ATA. US has run the route off-and-on through the years.

US ran MDW-PIT with a mix of F100's and D9S. Flew one in Sept 1992 - one week before the new terminal opened. The old terminal was a mess, it was raining buckets and the ceiling was leaking everywhere. Nobody seemed to care since the building was closing in a week.

For anyone that interested, UA flew ORD-PIT in the past using D10's and DC8's. US flew it using BAC 1-11's.

ORD/MDW - PIT has been interesting over the years.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting Midway7 (Reply 27):

For anyone that interested, UA flew ORD-PIT in the past using D10's and DC8's. US flew it using BAC 1-11's.

Some big metal back in the day. Must have been nice.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Paddy78 (Reply 25):
AA doesn't need that luxury, they screw their employees out in the open where everyone can see it.

Considering the recent additions to bankruptcy protection court and a fresh press release from AA on pension payments, this is truly an ignorant statement. Ah, and how about DL's news that it won't mail some pension checks in October?
Stop pop up ads
 
commavia
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:35 pm

Quoting Paddy78 (Reply 25):
AA doesn't need that luxury, they screw their employees out in the open where everyone can see it.

Yeah -- you're right: exacting less harmful wage and benefit cuts on its employees than its competitors -- outside of bankruptcy -- and not coming back again and again, and continuing to pay into all of its employees' pension plans, and moving more and more work in-house.

Yeah, that really sounds like "screwing their employees out in the open" to me!  Smile
 
paddy78
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 29):
this is truly an ignorant statement



Quoting Commavia (Reply 30):
Yeah, that really sounds like "screwing their employees out in the open" to me!

Sorry guys, have to get my shots in on AA every now and then. I am out of a pension, my old man is out of a pension, all my former coworkers are out their pensions too (unless you call what the PBGC throws at you a pension). We have a 100% part-time station and the manager still has a corner office...the most expensive piece of real estate in the joint. In addition, my station is so top-heavy in pay (I think there are 18 employees, 15 of which are maxed) that this thread scares me to death; I would never in a million years put it past AA to close down a station and hand out a bunch of buy-out packages to keep employee costs down. They have changed their rules surrounding seniority, recall, and bump n roll policy so many times I can't put anything past them. Oh well, can't be too mad at them, at least I don't do this for a living anymore...thanks to AA I get to do it for fun!

Call me ignorant if you want, but I actually drank the Kool Aid once, and man did it give me heartburn. Sounds like it hasn't done that to either of you guys yet...more power to ya fellers, hope it works out.
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:05 pm

N670UW:

AA used to fly mainline to PIT from both ORD and MIA until the early 90s. A friend of mine used to fly 727s as an F/O. He used to have first day of a 3-day trip as ORD-STL-ORD-PIT-MIA.

When AA retired a bunch of 727s and DC-10s in 1993 and 1994, it dropped PIT-MIA and switched ORD-PIT to ATRs.
 
NWADC9
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:58 pm

With mainline dropping, do you think they'll get rid of a few gates at PIT? They rule the end of D, with Hooters Air sharing D86, which was ATA's old gate. If they're gonna fly in regional aircraft, then would they need all those gates?
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:22 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 32):
ORD-PIT to ATRs.

How long was the westbound flight time on that?

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 33):
If they're gonna fly in regional aircraft, then would they need all those gates?

Assuming frequencies remain the same (they could even add one to replace some of the lost seats) I would imagine they'd keep gates. After all, the CRJ-700 isn't THAT small.
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:47 pm

just because they're pulling mainline out of PIT doesn't necessarily mean that they are reducing capacity, does it? perhaps there will be more flights on smaller jets.
 
N670UW
Topic Author
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 35):
just because they're pulling mainline out of PIT doesn't necessarily mean that they are reducing capacity, does it? perhaps there will be more flights on smaller jets.

It depends. Right now, AA is running 4x MD-80 on weekdays. At 129 seats each, that's about 516 daily seats.

Seven CRJ-700 frequencies, about 490 seats, wouldn't even cover the current MD-80 capacity. Whether or not AA will actually put 7 daily flights on DFW-PIT remains to be seen, but I have doubts about that.  crazy 



N670UW
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:39 pm

Quoting N670UW (Reply 36):
At 129 seats each, that's about 516 daily seats.

http://www.faremeasure.com/flights/F...rgh_Pennsylvania-Dallas_Texas.html

Quote:
On average, 445 passengers travel the 1,068 miles between Pittsburgh, PA and Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX each day...

During the most recent reporting period, American Airlines had 50.23% of the market between Pittsburgh, PA and Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX and passengers paid an average one-way fare of $221.32.

...US Airways served 24.98% of the passengers flying between Pittsburgh, PA and Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX during the most recent reporting period, and passengers paid an average of $180.77 one-way.

Validity of faremeasure.com's numbers aside. If US is hauling 1/4 of the 445 that's 111, which will be split among 3 E-170's. Assuming the E-170's are running at a 85% LF, that leaves only 68 pax to make up with for connections at PIT for US. Plenty of opportunities about between EAS and Colgan markets... or an O&D ratio of 62%

It also means that AA was only hauling 223 pax as O&D, the rest were connections through DFW, or empty seats. Using that same 85% LF, of the current 516 seats AA was running in the corridor a 49.7% O&D ratio. Get rid of the extra seats by going 5x CRJ-700, and then it becomes only 420 seats in the market, and with that you get an O&D ratio of 62%... with still plenty of room for connecting pax. If they're going to piss away some connecting pax opportunities though, don't be surprised if they upgrade ORD to some CRJ700's too to make up the gap... if not the new and improved US may be able to get some running through PHX/LAS.
 
pitflyer
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 10:49 pm

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:03 am

This sucks. As a AA million miler and Platinum member, they called me last month asking me why I don't fly as much. I said its because AA's schedule at PIT isn't good. They in turn said they'll give me four upgrades so I can use them on my next flight. But now no mainline service!

Oh well, guess if they figure out a way to minimize runway delays at ORD, a short hop on an ERJ to ORD isn't that bad.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting Pitflyer (Reply 38):
Oh well, guess if they figure out a way to minimize runway delays at ORD,

It'll happen the day after US figures it out at PHL, DL figures it out at ATL, and CO figures it out at EWR. Just please don't hold your breath waiting, unless you're an attractive female in need of CPR afterwards.  Smile
 
toltommy
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
HOW???? Explain the logic before you go spewing out WN-loving bullshit. When you can logically explain to me how WN chased AA out of that market I'll be impressed.

Somebody's a little tense....

Ever hear of yield management? Perhaps AA can fill 5 S80 flights a day to ORD, but remember, AA no longer controls pricing in the PIT-CHI market. So they are filling the planes at a much lower yield. The S80's are not that fuel efficient compared to newer planes, but Denton Drive can't justify moving a 738 into the market as they have to fill seats at WN's prices. Doesn't make sense to keep the station mainline for a few DFW flights a day, plus AE to ORD. MIA nonstops won't come back, there likely isn't enough connecting traffic to the caribbean, and both FL and WN will keep yields low in the PIT-MIA/FLL market.

It's not about loving (or in you case hating) WN. It's simple economics.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 40):
Somebody's a little tense....

Ever hear of yield management? Perhaps AA can fill 5 S80 flights a day to ORD, but remember, AA no longer controls pricing in the PIT-CHI market. So they are filling the planes at a much lower yield.

Not tense, but once again somebody's a little wrong...
AA never has been sending Super-80's to PIT from ORD for years now, so that renders half your post irrelevant. Remember, AA hasn't controlled pricing on PIT-Chicago/ORD... that was US/UA's job for years now. Read up to my earlier posts, AA hasn't been competitive in that O&D market for years now running ERJ-145's vs Mainline/BAe's/E170's from US/UA.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 40):
MIA nonstops won't come back, there likely isn't enough connecting traffic to the caribbean

There is... but PIT is still US country. If little ABE fills mainline flights (1x A 319 is mixed in with the RJ buffet) to CLT and then continue onto the Caribbean, you can bet your wallet that PIT does a whole bunch of 'em. Those PIT-CLT flights aren't connecting people to the bread and butter of the US network which is even north and east of PIT, let alone CLT, so they've got to be connecting the people somewhere down there in the Caribbean and Florida. Not to mention where did they say they were dropping PIT-MIA flights? There are already PIT-MIA flights, flown on Eagle. N670UW was saying he was hoping that they'd return to mainline, not return to the system.

Not to mention as bad as US' customer service gets complained about primarily because of PHL, there are still a bunch of good apples at PIT. Several of them post here as well. AA's service at PIT was the reason I quit flying them long ago. Want to talk about a bunch of don't-care attitudes?? Assuming this is true, as would make ALOT of sense:

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 13):
AA is going all Eagle at PIT in order to eliminate 40-50 high seniority, top of the pay scale employees. Memphis and Columbus are next.

GOOD! Clean the house. Because the samples of AA's "high seniority top of the pay scale employees" at PIT are about as bad as it gets in the industry.

[Edited 2005-09-16 19:40:41]
 
PITA333
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:59 am

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:14 am

Wow, I cant believe this. I never thought that I would miss the AA MD80 at PIT, but I guess I took it for granted.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:44 am

Bummer. Looks like AA is losing my BUR business (not that they care). I'll be switching to WN. No way will I spend 3 hours+ on any version of a CRJ to DFW. If it were an ERJ that would be a different story.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:08 am

ORD-PIT was not an original pre-deregulation route; that honor went to United and TWA.
Both carriers at one time or another ran a late-night/red-eye widebody flight(DC-10 or L-1011) between the two.

After de-regulation; early 1980's, AA started the route with 3 727 roundtrips a day.

By the late 1980's, that became 4 MD-80 (or S80 in AA lingo) per day.

Early nineties, it went to 5 Fokkers a day, before Eagle took over the route.
Delete this User
 
ARCJET
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RE: AA To End Mainline Service At PIT

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:55 am

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