airbazar
Posts: 6866
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Speculative News About DL At BOS

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:44 pm

http://www.boston.com/business/artic...9/16/logan_may_see_few_delta_cuts/

"Logan is also a key market for service to Europe and the Caribbean, which is likely to become a higher priority in a reorganized Delta because it makes more money than domestic service."

Humm, wonder if this reporter knows about the history behind the FIS facilities at Logan  Smile
 
PVD757
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:54 pm

I sure hope PVD-ATL/CVG doesn't go to RJ's...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Thread starter):
Humm, wonder if this reporter knows about the history behind the FIS facilities at Logan

Most likely not. He probably saw several articles stating "DL to expand internationally by 30%" and though to himself "Hm, I guess that can't exclude BOS, so I'm gonna write a speculative article." Nothing more, nothing less.
Regardless, I would bet my left leg DL would already be having a big international presence at BOS with even more to come had Massport allowed FIS in Terminal A. DL 757s to Europe? You bet'cha. But Massport shot itself in the leg with that decision.
 
RL757PVD
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:08 am

The problem is that all the key DL european cities are already well served from BOS... LGW, CDG and FRA. Only possible service would maybe be CDG to tap into AF's hub and codeshare network. BOS is new englands intl gateway, but it is certainly no JFK.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Only possible service would maybe be CDG to tap into AF's hub and codeshare network

BOS-CDG had actually been planned by DL prior to 9/11, but never became official.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
The problem is that all the key DL european cities are already well served from BOS... LGW, CDG and FRA.

They may already be served, but whether they are well-served is another story.
Now, let's imagine for a moment terminal A had FIS:
DL would start BOS-CDG on the 763ER ASAP. Next one would then be FRA, taking advantage of their still big following in the Frankfurt area, operated by a 763ER as well. LGW would be very doubtful, and only be started with a 757 if at all. Other potential routes in Europe would be FCO (AZ isn't the most stable carrier either) and perhaps MSP, and an expansion into DUB, SNN, MAN and other smaller cities in the UK.
Then of course, a few Canadian cities might see CRJ service from BOS (again), like YYZ, YOW, YUL or Quebec City. And of course the Caribbean:
MBJ in place of JM, NAS on Song, and AUA with saturday-only service.
And lastly Mexico, with saturday-only 738 service to CUN.
All dreams for now *sigh*.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am

I don't think the FIS issue is the only thing holding DL back from international expansion at BOS.

BOS is a tough market to make international work. Most routes would be predominantly O+D based....but most of the big markets are already served meaning DL would just be dumping more capacity into already well-served routes.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Then of course, a few Canadian cities might see CRJ service from BOS (again), like YYZ, YOW, YUL or Quebec City.

DL can serve these w/o FIS. It's all pre-cleared in Canada. There's nothing stopping DL from launching these routes except poor economics.

IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if DL forces Massport to take back some of the A gates. The terminal is too big and it is questionable if DL will ever be able to fill it.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:39 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
DL can serve these w/o FIS. It's all pre-cleared in Canada.

D'uh, you're right, completely forgot to about pre-clearance. Also kills my NAS proposal.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if DL forces Massport to take back some of the A gates.

Perhaps DL might reach a DL with Massport, "Either you allow us FIS, or you will be burdened with these gates"  Silly .
 
PVD757
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if DL forces Massport to take back some of the A gates. The terminal is too big and it is questionable if DL will ever be able to fill it.

And from what I understand, it's about to get worse as HP will vacate thier use of "A" gates and consolidate into US's "B" gates. (I didn't even know HP was in A to begin with...)
 
BostonGuy
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:55 am

If you read the article carefully you'll see that the reporter doesn't actually speculate that DL will add European or Caribbean flights.

" Logan is also a key market for service to Europe and the Caribbean, which is likely to become a higher priority in a reorganized Delta because it makes more money than domestic service."

The two items in that sentence, "Logan is... a key market for service to Europe and the Caribbean" and "which is likely to become a higher priority in a reorganized Delta..." aren't linked together by the reporters follow-up.

All the reporter does after writing that sentence is quote analysts who state that actual DL service from BOS, PVD and MHT might experience cuts in frequencies to select cities as well as a reduction in the size of the type of aircraft on those routes.

He started the article with a clumsily written sentence... and only makes clear he is not speculating about DL starting new European service from BOS by exclusively focusing on details regarding cuts in frequencies and aircraft size.

There will be no new DL service from BOS to Europe in the foreseable future.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:07 am

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked to see MHT-CVG go down to CRJ-700s or EMB-170s (170s being preferred of course...it still wouldn't be all too difficult to upgrade).

For BOS, I don't know what to really expect. I wouldn't be shocked to see SEA and NAS come on as Song flights...keep in mind that until 9/11, Delta did run BOS-NAS SaSuMo on a Delta Shuttle 737-800...I also wouldn't be shocked to see BDA go to Song if B6 enters BDA at all; the one difficulty here is the BOS-BDA plane turns to ATL with the later-arriving ATL-BDA flight coming back to BOS (and then currently continuing on to SLC and SAN...one of the rare 4 segment DL flights).

Jeff
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
the one difficulty here is the BOS-BDA plane turns to ATL with the later-arriving ATL-BDA flight coming back to BOS

Not anymore. The two flights have been split for a few months now, with BOS-BDA being a 738, and ATL-BDA a 763 or 757.
 
deltairlines
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Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Not anymore. The two flights have been split for a few months now, with BOS-BDA being a 738, and ATL-BDA a 763 or 757.

That's what happens when you move from Boston to Greensboro...you start memorizing the GSO schedule instead of the BOS schedule...

Jeff
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:35 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
They may already be served, but whether they are well-served is another story.

I agree. Besides the usual suspects, I'd add Lisbon, Athens, and Moscow to that list, and possibly Bangalore. LH is making a killing on the BOS-FRA-BLR.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Speculative News About DL At BOS

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:53 am

Dont count on DL adding trans-atlantic service out of BOS for a few reasons:

1. They simply dont have the longhaul aircraft to operate the routes - DL's longhaul fleet is very well utilized and DL has been short on longhaul aircraft ever since the MD11s left the fleet and the 777 deliveries were put on hold. DL is also now disposing of the 762s, and some of DL's domestic routes into the ATL hub simply require the seats offered by a widebody, so there will not be an excess 767 or 777 around for new longhaul flights out of BOS.

2. DL tried BOS-LGW and it was a disaster - pax want LHR and the BOS-LHR route is already well served. As for service to other European cities, BOS is already well served by international carriers and American has recently taken a renewed interest in BOS as an international gateway with the Manchester and Shannon services. Lots of competition - DL would have a difficult time in BOS - they should countinue to focus on ATL and JFK.

3. DL at one time was thinking about expanding out of BOS to Europe - the plan did not go forward for many reasons, including that DL suddenly remembered that it already has JFK as an international gateway about 200 miles to the south of BOS - and JFK has far more potential with O&D pax as well as connections.

4. While 757s accross the Atlantic are currently in-style with US carriers....CO and AA have RR powered 752s that simply perform better and have more range than DL's PW powered 752s. The PW 752 is not a great choice for a transatlantic airliner. Plus, CO and now AA have invested in winglets for their 757 fleets to get a bit more range out of their airplanes, something DL has not yet done and DL probably now does not have the money to spend on a winglet program. Year-round nonrestricted operations with the PW 757 on routes to/from BOS to Europe would probably be quite difficult to cities beyond the UK and Ireland.

BOS will remain an important city in the DL network......look for Song to step up its presence at BOS flying higher-demand nonhub routes and to combat JetBlue, but I do not think that BOS will become a European gateway for DL.