KarlB737
Topic Author
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Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:10 am

 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:14 am

Wow..who would thought this not even 5 years ago?!! This will be VERY interesting if WN makes its way into ATL, competing against DL AND AirTran.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
deltairlines
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:21 am

Where would they go...until minimally Concourse F opens up, there isn't any gate space. Delta's got a lockdown on A/B, T is full, and D is pretty full too, even with the city-owned gates. Not to mention that E is also full a good chunk of the time and even then, good luck getting gates in the late afternoon-early evening.

Jeff
 
John
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:24 am

Rest assured, Delta will continue to defend their ATL fortress, it's a very important asset and I don't see them backing off from that too much.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:26 am

I think these articles point out that this might happen IF DL were to make some significant reduction in flights. Notice I said IF.

Correct me if I am incorrect.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 335
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:26 am

Hmm... very interesting, funny how they are willing to go to one of the busiest airports in the world but they can't come to DFW.
 
atrude777
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
Where would they go...until minimally Concourse F opens up, there isn't any gate space. Delta's got a lockdown on A/B, T is full, and D is pretty full too, even with the city-owned gates. Not to mention that E is also full a good chunk of the time and even then, good luck getting gates in the late afternoon-early evening.



Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 5):
Hmm... very interesting, funny how they are willing to go to one of the busiest airports in the world but they can't come to DFW.

You people don't read the article, and if you do you don't understand it. Southwest is NOT going to ATL right now if DL stays like this. Southwest will only be interested if Delta cuts back a lot of flights so it is not crowded at ATL. THEN, Southwest will want to start flights at ATL.

As for why WN won't move to DFW, it is because of cost, and AA has to many flights at DFW as this is why WN stays from crowded Airports. At ATL, DL would have cut flights so itisn't as crowded, and the cost isn't so bad to operate out of there.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
N77014
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting John (Reply 3):
Rest assured, Delta will continue to defend their ATL fortress, it's a very important asset and I don't see them backing off from that too much.

True. But DL in earnest coudn't run a tiny Airtran out of their hometown. Potentially, they would have to face a carrier with a market cap greater than all the other carriers in the nation combined, with competitive fuel hedging in place for the near future, plenty of planes on order to grow with, and one that would find plenty of unemployed ex DL folk looking for a place to work offering security and dignity. No, DL having to face WN directly is no pleasant experience, no matter how much resolve DL fans want to paint here.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
quickmover
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:31 am

Airtran wanted more gates even before the ch. 11 of Delta and they were not available. I don't know where WN would go. That press release alone would be enough make Delta lock down every gate possible in ATL to keep WN out.
 
airstatdfw
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 6):
and AA has to many flights at DFW as this is why WN stays from crowded Airports.

DL has more flights out of ATL than AA does at DFW. ATL is very crowded in my opinion.
 
LV
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:52 am

I think it actually means WN might go to CVG.
 
N77014
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
Airtran wanted more gates even before the ch. 11 of Delta and they were not available. I don't know where WN would go. That press release alone would be enough make Delta lock down every gate possible in ATL to keep WN out.

This assumes of course that DL, and not the Hartsfield airport authority, control gate leases.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 5):
Hmm... very interesting, funny how they are willing to go to one of the busiest airports in the world but they can't come to DFW.

How exactly do you come up with "willing?" All he said was:

"There's been no discussion of Atlanta whatsoever, but that doesn't mean it can't come up in the future," said Ed Stewart, Southwest senior director of public relations. "In terms of knowing what to expect with the [bankruptcy] filing, we're at the starting gate. We just don't know what Delta's going to do. It's a question that has no answers right now."
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
iowaman
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting LV (Reply 10):
I think it actually means WN might go to CVG.

Good, they would be the first LCC in there other then the occasional USA300 charter. CVG is in desperate need of lower fares. I hope they enter CVG.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:22 am

 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:27 am

I don't think DL would be the problem, but rather FL. I don't see FL just letting WN move right into their territory.
 
N77014
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:43 am

[quote=FriendlySkies,reply=15]I don't think DL would be the problem, but rather FL. I don't see FL just letting WN move right into their territory.

Again, who runs the gate leases at the airport?
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
SESGDL
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:51 am

ATL will be the last place that DL downsizes. And if WN cut SFO due to delays, how in the WORLD could WN serve ATL?

Jeremy
 
stlgph
Posts: 9052
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting LV (Reply 10):
I think it actually means WN might go to CVG.

where on earth do people come up with just blatantly dumb assumptions like this?

Quoting John (Reply 3):
Rest assured, Delta will continue to defend their ATL fortress, it's a very important asset and I don't see them backing off from that too much.

Not only will Delta defend, but AirTran will defend, too. AirTran has too much invested into ATL already, and ATL knows it. If Delta budges even a little, AirTran will be the first to get the opportunity to move forward. Rest assured that won't happen much, Delta will remain proud, loyal, and huge in Atlanta as long as they continue to stay in business.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 17):
if WN cut SFO due to delays, how in the WORLD could WN serve ATL?

You know, the interesting thing is, these days, San Francisco International is one of the nation's best-performing airports in terms of on-time performance. Of course, Southwest leaving, combined with United cutting flights, tends to do that.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:12 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 17):
And if WN cut SFO due to delays, how in the WORLD could WN serve ATL?

Different scenario at SFO; WN still serves the region just across the bay at OAK. At present, there is NO other airport in the immediate ATL region that presently supports/offers scheduled airline service... just like PHL.

As others have said, I don't see FL rolling over and letting WN take over should DL drastically scale back or liquidate. This isn't MDW where FL only had a smaller presence compared to WN; ATL's their nucleus.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
satx
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:12 am

Quote:
"We have a...product that competes with anyone."

Get some decent seat pitch in coach and then talk about how you compete.  Big grin
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:19 am

I dont think they'll be in ATL anytime soon...but i think CVG is looking better and better for WN every day.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 6):
As for why WN won't move to DFW, it is because of cost, and AA has to many flights at DFW as this is why WN stays from crowded Airports. At ATL

Plus the fact that WN presently serves the Metroplex out of DAL, where they originated, with intra-state flights as well as those that fall within the W/S A perimeter. Hopefully, W/S will get repealed soon but that's another topic for several other threads floating around here.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Guest

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 4):
I think these articles point out that this might happen IF DL were to make some significant reduction in flights. Notice I said IF.



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 6):
Southwest will only be interested if Delta cuts back a lot of flights so it is not crowded at ATL. THEN, Southwest will want to start flights at ATL.

Right, and that's just not going to happen. Everything I've heard is that Delta will grow ATL even more, especially with a 30% increase in international travel. All this article is is hypothetical bullshit speculation.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
Good, they would be the first LCC in there other then the occasional USA300 charter. CVG is in desperate need of lower fares. I hope they enter CVG.

CVG has them. Delta's simplafares were initiated there.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 15):
I don't think DL would be the problem, but rather FL. I don't see FL just letting WN move right into their territory

Exactly. FL won't have this. THEY were the big reason jetblue left, not Delta.

Again, this article is just a "what if", not factual in the least.

B
 
quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:49 am

Maybe this is an off the wall thought, but do you suppose WN is making these press releases to muddy up the water even more for Delta and Airtran planners? I seriously doubt WN is going to telegraph their moves way ahead of time either.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 25):
you suppose WN is making these press releases to muddy up the water

 checkmark  I was wondering the same thing.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
srbmod
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:43 am

Hasn't Herb Kelleher been quoted as saying "It'll be a cold day in Hell before we ever serve ATL!"

The only way you'll ever see a WN a/c at ATL are the following:

1. Charter flight
2. Diversion

Quoting N77014 (Reply 11):

This assumes of course that DL, and not the Hartsfield airport authority, control gate leases.



Quoting N77014 (Reply 16):

Again, who runs the gate leases at the airport?

The City of Atlanta owns the five gates at the south end of D; but for all practical purposes, 4 of the 5 can be considered AirTran gates. The gates on E are not owned by any airline, but Delta pretty much has first choice on the gates there, and does the ground handling for the bulk of the flights on the concourse. When AirTran added 4 gates on C in late 1999-early 2000, they had to purchase several gates that they had been leasing (another company [AGI, IIRC] owned the four gates on AirTran's end of C that were set up to handle widebodies) so they could redo the layout to add 4 gates.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
Where would they go...until minimally Concourse F opens up, there isn't any gate space.

That project is now several years behind schedule. There is the plan to build a 30-something gate South Terminal, and it is thought that AirTran will move their operations to that facility, which is at least 5-10 years away. Until that happens, the amount of gate space available for any new airline to come in is very slim. If Independence Air were to drop ATL, that would open up a gate; once the HP/US merger moves along further, HP's flights will start to operate out of US's gate, so that opens up another gate as well. But unless someone acts quickly enough, AirTran will snag that gate, which makes me wonder what gate Spirit will be using @ ATL. Right now the shared gates are used by AirTran, America West, Hooters Air, and on occassion charter flights (Vacation Express and AMC charters).

Quoting LV (Reply 10):
I think it actually means WN might go to CVG.

I have to say this is probably true. Delta had already announced a 25% reduction in ops @ CVG in the days leading up to the Chapter 11 filing, so that may the entry into a DL hub for WN. If NW reduces MEM ops to some extent, I would not be surprised if WN moved into to MEM as well.
 
planespotting
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 5):
Hmm... very interesting, funny how they are willing to go to one of the busiest airports in the world but they can't come to DFW.

not to mention that ya know, WN already serves an airport about 7 miles east of DFW that they've already invested millions and millions of dollars into, along with their headquarters building and a huge maitenance facility.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
Pope
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:50 am

WN at ATL means DL in Ch 13 not 11.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:23 am

Quote:
It began its Pittsburgh service in May 2004

Wow, its been over a year since PIT service? I think they had 2 Pennsylvania services mixed up there.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
LongbowPilot
Posts: 526
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:41 am

WN reminds me of my mothers Silk Terrier. Runs up to the fenced in German Shepard and yaps, but just wait, one day the gate will be left open and that pathetic example of book cooking reknobs at WN will see the end come looking at the reflection of what is left of the "small" business they have in the teeth of the majors. Southwest would never stand a chance in Atlanta. Besides Delta has the monopoly, there would be NO way WN could undercut Delta in every possible location. They would just be a fly in the trap.
 
sccutler
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:02 am

Longbow, I agree that WN at ATL is a remote possibility, but to suggest that DL has the ability to dictate what WN does?

WN has what DL hasn't- positive cash flow and piles of equity, inlcuding cash-equivalents the envy of the entire industry.

No one could have conceived, at the time Southwest started operations, that one fine day their market cap would be worth more than the rest pf the airline industry, combined.

Never say never; it blinds you to possibilities.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
AirRyan
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:07 am

Don't hold your breath WN junkies - UA just got approved to exit Ch11 today and when DL comes out they are going to be really agressive with a streamlined business model. If UA could be saved, there is no reason why DL cannot be.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:24 am

The hubris flying around that Delta is going to "defend" ATL till their dying breath is getting pretty thick. This is business we're talking about, not a mideval castle..

I, for one, think it's perfectly reasonable to expect Delta to look at downsizing ATL. And as mentioned in other threads, there is one very good reason.. you cannot run a hub with 1,000+ flights and expect everything to run smoothly. One small thunderstorm over the field, and you've got diversions in the dozens and missed connections in the thousands. If I were a DL stakeholder, I'd be very interested in seeing capacity shifted away from ATL to make the operation manageable.

I'm surprised it hasn't been said before, but.. this article is obviously just the media's attempt to extract meaning out of comments made in passing by SWA executives. Remember a while back when Colleen (or one of the others, can't remember) mentioned that they were looking at the new EMBs just as a matter of due diligence? Suddenly, there were articles with the headline "Southwest Possibly Interested in Smaller Jet".

IF Delta were to shrink ATL, it would be prudent for SWA to look at new service there.. would it not? The only thing holding them back would be gate space (which a Delta downsize would free up). But you know you're working for a good company when one of your own can mention this out loud and solicit news articles and a 30+ message thread on a.net.... heheh

Honestly, I think a Delta downsize would give AirTran some breathing room (and more room to expand), which will only make them more of a merger target. Now, if Southwest were interested in 20+ gates at ATL and some 717s they could trade back to Boeing....................
Ask why..
 
SRT75
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 33):
Don't hold your breath WN junkies - UA just got approved to exit Ch11 today

And, your point is? I'm a big fan of UA, but you must admit it is too early to tell what UA's long-term financial future looks like. It's carrying a fair amount of debt as a recently emerged airline, and a few bunps along the road and they could be right back where they started.

Quoting LongbowPilot (Reply 31):
one day the gate will be left open and that pathetic example of book cooking reknobs at WN will see the end come looking at the reflection of what is left of the "small" business they have in the teeth of the majors

Can I have some of what you're smokin' -- it sounds fun.  hyper  IMHO, I don't see the demise of the LCCs on the horizon.

As far as WN and ATL:

1. I would suspect that WN would need to rely on O/D pax. How strong is the Atlanta area in this regard? What percentage of the busiest airport in the US are connecting passengers on DL?

2. I agree with others, that this sounds like a WN exec having some fun and stirring the pot.

3. I think ATL, MSP, and DEN are tough nuts to crack for WN. They would like to compete with the majors, and they are probably pretty good markets, but with no alternative airports it's almost an impossible task. WN usually tests the water of a major at a secondary airpot: MDW, Love Field, BWI (instead of IAD or DCA), they even started out at Detroit Metro Airport before moving to DTW.
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 35):
3. I think ATL, MSP, and DEN are tough nuts to crack for WN. They would like to compete with the majors, and they are probably pretty good markets, but with no alternative airports it's almost an impossible task. WN usually tests the water of a major at a secondary airpot: MDW, Love Field, BWI (instead of IAD or DCA), they even started out at Detroit Metro Airport before moving to DTW.

DEN= FNL + COS...
MSP= STC + (see signature)
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
swadispatcher
Posts: 420
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RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 27):
The only way you'll ever see a WN a/c at ATL are the following:

1. Charter flight
2. Diversion

Scratch #2 off that list.. I don't think I'd use ATL unless I had no other choice..  Big grin
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 29):
WN at ATL means DL in Ch 13 not 11.

Chapter 13 is for individuals. A corporate liquidation is handled under Chapter 7.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4732
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:21 pm

If I remember correctly, the City of Atlanta started courting airlines to fill up space on Concourse C, after EA shut down. The only airline interested was TWA, and DL ran them out in less than a year.

I know the City begged WN to set up an operation, but WN said that it wasn't interested in taking on a major carrier at a fortress hub. It was shortly after that when ValuJet started operations.

Now, DL has increased its ATL operation considerable in the last 10+ years, so it would have to shrink a lot to get to a size where WN feels that it can run an operation without fear of regular delays.

Add to the mix that AirTran is still smarting from having its deal for ATA's gates at MDW thwarted by WN. Even though WN says it fears no one, management has to realize that setting up any kind of operation at ATL is simply inviting a war from AirTran.
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 38):
Chapter 13 is for individuals. A corporate liquidation is handled under Chapter 7.

haha, i was gonna say...how would a chapter 13 of a corporation work?!
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
rage323machine
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:41 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:45 pm

Dam as much as I hate Southwest (Im going to hear about this I know!)
They have a killer plan.. Yes they do, they know how to run an airline very aggressive and at the same time reliable.....(dam I hate them)

But if anything good luck WN...(dam I hate you WN)
I still can't imagine ATL in close radar for WN looks like they are the vultures of the airline industry they go for the kill!!!!!!!
hahaha

Rage323machine
 
stlgph
Posts: 9052
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 27):
Delta had already announced a 25% reduction in ops @ CVG in the days leading up to the Chapter 11 filing, so that may the entry into a DL hub for WN. If NW reduces



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 27):
MEM ops to some extent, I would not be surprised if WN moved into to MEM as well.

Again. Where do you all come up with these ideas?

Northwest uses their presence as a bargaining chip in Memphis. Delta uses their presence as a bargaining chip in Cincinnati. Both of these airlines throw their clout around to get what they want because of the money premiums they enjoy. If they don't get what they want, they're out.

At Memphis, is losing a Northwest hub worth 5-10 daily Southwest flights?

At Cincinnati, is losing the Delta hub, which built the airport into what it is, worth 5-10 daily Southwest flights?

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 34):
I, for one, think it's perfectly reasonable to expect Delta to look at downsizing ATL. And as mentioned in other threads, there is one very good reason.. you cannot run a hub with 1,000+ flights and expect everything to run smoothly. One small thunderstorm over the field, and you've got diversions in the dozens and missed connections in the thousands. If I were a DL stakeholder, I'd be very interested in seeing capacity shifted away from ATL to make the operation manageable.

Then buy shares and give it your best shot. They're really cheap right now.

Meantime, while you're on hold with your investment guy, find a book on macroeconomics and read up on resource allocation.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:05 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 42):
Meantime, while you're on hold with your investment guy, find a book on macroeconomics and read up on resource allocation.

And then throw the book away when you've got 55 mainline jets (including international inbounds) in CAE, TYS, CHA, HSV, BNA, BHM, MGM, CSG, MCN, AGS, and SAV..

Then wonder why you ever read it in the first place when it happens again 2 days later..

I'm as firm a believer in academia as anyone, but book-sense just hasn't done a good job of handling the realities of irregular operations.
Ask why..
 
dc10rules
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:41 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 35):
WN usually tests the water of a major at a secondary airpot: MDW, Love Field, BWI (instead of IAD or DCA), they even started out at Detroit Metro Airport before moving to DTW.

DTW is Detroit Metro. I think you mean DET (Detroit City).

I flew in and out of there as a private and that airport is a dump (IMO).

Cheers
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:33 am

People, this article is what is called "corporate non-speak"

Basically you have a bunch of reporters who have no clue about the aviation industry now suddenly rushing to cover a big story. These idiot reporters start trying to take every angle possible.

Idiot reporters know WN is strong, so they suddenly think that WN will dominate the world. So they prod WN for comments about taking over ATL, DTW, etc. Then you get the typical PR spokesperson response to basically kind of deny the reporters claims, but leave the door open to leave people wondering.

You are all reading way to far into this one. WN will not be in ATL anytime soon.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 24):
Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
Good, they would be the first LCC in there other then the occasional USA300 charter. CVG is in desperate need of lower fares. I hope they enter CVG.

CVG has them. Delta's simplafares were initiated there.

Simplafares are still very expensive. The only place Simplafares made a difference is where they had to compete.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 42):
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 27):
Delta had already announced a 25% reduction in ops @ CVG in the days leading up to the Chapter 11 filing, so that may the entry into a DL hub for WN. If NW reduces MEM ops to some extent, I would not be surprised if WN moved into to MEM as well.

Again. Where do you all come up with these ideas?

The Delta cutback at CVG was announced almost a week before the Chapter 11 filing:
http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9852

Quote:
Effective Dec. 1, Delta will right-size operations at its second-largest hub at Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport to better match service to local passenger demand and optimize the balance of local and connecting traffic. With the changes, Delta will reduce mainline and Delta Connection carrier capacity in Cincinnati by 26 percent, while boosting the percentage of local traffic from 36 to nearly 50 percent – well in line with other Delta and competitor hubs.



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 40):

haha, i was gonna say...how would a chapter 13 of a corporation work?!

Corporations can only file Chapter 11 or Chapter 7. Individuals can only file Chapter 13 or Chapter 7.
 
Guest

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 46):
Simplafares are still very expensive. The only place Simplafares made a difference is where they had to compete.

Which makes perfect sense to start it out of CVG, where they don't really compete w/ anyone...

Riiiiiiight.

Simplafares reduced fares overall in some cases up to 80%. I don't know where you come up with this stuff.

B
 
DB777
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Southwest On Standby For ATL?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 42):
Northwest uses their presence as a bargaining chip in Memphis. Delta uses their presence as a bargaining chip in Cincinnati. Both of these airlines throw their clout around to get what they want because of the money premiums they enjoy. If they don't get what they want, they're out.

At Memphis, is losing a Northwest hub worth 5-10 daily Southwest flights?

At Cincinnati, is losing the Delta hub, which built the airport into what it is, worth 5-10 daily Southwest flights?

You make it sound like airports can decide to bar certain carriers because they don't want to piss off their largest carrier. Wrong. Airports are required to submit an Airport Competition Plan to the FAA every 18 months to ensure that doesn't happen and that new entrant carriers can enter at will. Airport projects using AIP or PFC money must be approved by the FAA and part of the approval process is having a FAA-approved Airport Competition Plan.

According to ATL's application for new service, all gates on Concourse E are deemed common-use and assigned daily by ATL's contracted company TBI Airport Management Inc. (page 16)

http://www.atlanta-airport.com/suble...airport_info/pdfs/2004Exhibit1.pdf

In addition, according to FAA documents on another site, ATL is recapturing underutilized leased gates for conversion to common-use gates as part of their competition plan.

CVG's Competition Plan is at: http://www.cvgairport.com/airport/comp_plan.shtml

I couldn't find MEM's Competition Plan in a quick Google search but the above two sites should give you a clearer understanding of how airports really work.

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