BCA2005
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Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:13 am

Theres always talk about new routes and new destinations. Recently I was looking at old BA timetables and managed 2 come up with a long list of destinations which have been served and axed by BA within the last 10 years.

KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

Im sure theres more, so please add to the list. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I ask why has the BA route network decreased so much over the years? Many of the destinations in the list are served by other airlines and perform well. I know theres a long list, but could anyone explain why any of the destinations above have been axed? Which BA route, in your opinion, is likely to be axed next?
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:40 am

From the OLCI bookmark I have:

Cardiff
Gothenberg
Guernsey
Leeds
Newquay
Paris (Orly)
Plymouth

While the BA network has undoubtedly shrunk (I have a 1992 Executive Club timetable which has some astonishing routes in it!) they have opened up a number of new routes, recently Sharm El Sheikh, Shanghai etc
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BAxMAN
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 1):
From the OLCI bookmark I have:


Gothenberg

Franchise partner, Sun Air, fly from GOT.

Some of the routes which BA have discontinued, such as PIT and CLT, have a bit of politics behind them following the split from US Airways. The exit from Saudi Arabia also (despite the protestations of BA press releases) was heavily influenced by international politics and perceived regional instability. The pullout from S. America has been a consistent trend during a time when overall profits have increased.

I guess that the decline of routes to the Far East commenced during the economic collapse suffered in the region a few years ago. I would love BA to start going back to ICN, KUL and TPE. These are major destinations and could surely be profitable. However, without an infinite supply of planes, I can understand why other routes may take precedent.

If you've got a 1992 timetable handy there, Mr Fbg, what was capacity like to HKG around that time? It may be that capacity has been maintained (or at least increased over the past 18 months or so) to the Far East but with a fewer number of destinations (with the exceptions of PEK and PVG) and, instead, BA are chucking a whole lot of passengers over to CX or JL for the final leg of their journey.

Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan. Not sure why BRS is on the OP's list.
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BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 2):
Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan.

They used to serve Abidjan back when majority of their African flights were from London Gatwick. Flights were twice weekly, one nonstop and one in a triangle flight with Accra, both using B777
 
LH423
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

But adding (or will add) routes and/or capacity to Shanghai, Reykjavík, Vilnius, Split, Hassi Massaoud, Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Hong Kong, Sharm El Sheikh, Grenoble, Innsbruck, Fèz, etc. (includes franchised airlines).

Yes, BA's route structure has shrunk but many airlines have. BA has trimmed a lot of fat and as a result was the most profitable airline in fiscal year 2004. They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR) but they're limited as to what they can do unless they get some new long-haul planes (which they're sort of doing by adding some more 767s to the long-haul fleet).

LH423
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Avianca
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:02 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
CCS, BOG

the axe of this destinations was really hard!!!! Sad

regards
Avianca
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BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
They'll slowly rebuild their route network as it makes sense (as evidenced by new routes to PVG and BLR)

I totally agree with what you're saying here, PVG and BLR should prove to be very profitable routes for BA. Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD or CAN? How about them reintroducing any of the destinations from the list, such as ICN, KIX or SCL (LAN Hub)?
 
blrBird
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
CMB

Was this pulled out after the attack on CMB airport?

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 6):
Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD

Expect Virgin before BA.
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BBADXB
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:37 am

From MLA, BA (or rather GT) axed LHR. I think that this was due to traffic to and from MLA being mainly leisure and not business traffic. KM serves LHR at least twice daily all year round.

On the other hand, BA (through its franchise, GT) have this summer started a new service to MAN.

Mainline BA have dropped MLA long ago... and it was only in summer of 1995 that operations to MLA were resumed through GT.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
DUR

DUR was dropped after South African domestic carrier Comair became a BA franchise. Shame to lose the 744s though!
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:48 am

Also AKL, ADL and BNE.
 
LH423
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 6):
Is there any chance that BA will start services to HYD or CAN?

There are rumours of HYD and COK if this new bi-lateral between the UK and India comes to fruition.

LH423
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HB-IWC
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:05 pm

A couple of remarks here:

- some of the destinations that were abandoned because of a variety of reasons, might be feasible for a return at the point in time. However, BA is obviously restricted in what is possible by limited available resources both in terms of airframes and Heathrow slots

- as for Seoul, BA never operated to ICN. At the time it pulled out of the destination, Seloul's Kimpo airport (SEL) was still in use. For a very short period of time during last year's SARS outbreak, BA's PEK flights operated via ICN, though

- I don't envisage a return of any flights with ineffective tag-ons. The era of multi-stop milkruns is coming to an end. As such, it is unlikely that BA would ever return to the like of MNL, TPE, CGK, DUR or GNE is small

- destinations like SEZ and CMB were essentially low yielding, and BA is sure not to invest its scarce resources into a return there

- while some of the previously abandoned destinations might make sense for a nonstop return (KUL, ICN, even MNL or TPE), BA seems to adhere to a policy of sticking to a limited number of destinations with increased frequency. As such, I would expect reinforced frequencies to SIN and HKG rather than a return to KUL or ICN

- I expect future longhaul growth to be focused on Asia, with India (upcoming) and China as the airline's prime targets. Nevertheless, I would expect BA to return to Korea at some point in the medium future and I could also imagine a flight to Centrair NGO if this new airport turns out to be a success
 
stirling
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:10 pm

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 2):
Never knew that BA ever flew to Abidjan

BA078/079

DC-10 LGW-ABJ-LGW Su/Mo

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 9):
DUR was dropped after South African domestic carrier Comair became a BA franchise

Tu/Th LHR-JNB-DUR 744 We/Fr DUR-JNB-LHR
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keno
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:09 pm

I can't really see how BA could do well on LHR-KUL sector if they decided to make a comeback. MH now flies 18x weekly to LHR and 4x weekly to MAN, that's a total of 22 x 747-400s services weekly. Flights to/from the UK are often the cheapest if compared to 7 other european cities served by MH, plus they can fill the cabin easier with onward connections to 5 Australian cities via KUL. Need I mention about MH's 5-star quality and its newly revamped premium classes?

BA is right to stay away from KUL. They just can't win  Wink

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BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:48 pm

Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo, Sao Paulo, Bangkok or Mexico City?
 
B742
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:14 pm

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

Out of these I miss SAN the most!  Sad

I think DUR should be re-introduced as an alternative to CPT or JNB, slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get, so a DUR service would add capacity to the South Africa market!

I think PER won't come back in the near future because of OneWorld partner airline QF!

The LHR-CMB route is pretty much covered by Emirates and Sri Lankan!

I think the most likely to return are the Asian routes such as LHR-TPE/NGO/CGK.. It's even more possible to see BA at NGO seeing as the new airport is now open! LHR/LGW-CGK is served by no one seeing as Garuda stopped flights to LON! As for TPE, Eva Air are the only airline to operate direct flights (via BKK) to TPE (773ER's), although there is plenty of competion from major Asian airlines such as CX, TG, CI, BR, SQ.... Maybe they could code-share with CX via HKG!

Rob!  Smile
 
BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:21 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
Maybe they could code-share with CX via HKG!

I think they already codeshare with CX to TPE, KUL, MNL and ICN. Come to think of it, this was probably the reason why they axed these destinations.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:39 pm

Quoting BCA2005 (Thread starter):
KUL, TPE, MNL, PER, NGO, KIX, ICN, CMB, DUR, ABJ, RUH, JED, CCS, BOG, SCL, SJO, HAV, MBJ, CUN, CLT, LLW, SEZ, CGK, DMM, BRS, SAN, PIT & ZAG

If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL and transpacific routes from HKG, TYO, SFO & LAX and probabley others.

Two of the relevant factors to consider over this period.

De Colonisation reduced the demand for flights between London and the colonies. It did not go away, but certainly it graudally reduced afer independance. This made those ports less attrative to BA.

The increase in range of modern aircraft. When LON-SYD services were introduced in 1934, there were 22 intermediate stops! Today its down to ONE! And will most likely be NONE within 10 years. Not many of those intermediate stop justified the stop for commerical reasons, they were necessary for technical reasons. As aircraft range increased those stops necessary mainly for technical reasons were dropped. This process has continued untill the present day where virtually all BA international flights are non stop or one stop at the most, so if the port cannot commerically justify service, it doesent get it.


Gemuser
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LH423
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 15):
Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo, Sao Paulo, Bangkok or Mexico City?

I'm sure at some point. All of those cities are full most of the time. I know in the case of MEX, it's the Mexico-UK bilateral that restricts us to 4x weekly. Though, the rest of the days IB can handle it for us.

I'm pretty sure that it's the same case with most of BA's busy cities. A lack of aircraft and/or a lack of a sufficient bi-lateral is what keeps BA from servicing cities that other airlines do so well on. Particularly China. AF and LH are doing wonders on their routes to China. BA, well, only has 11 weekly services (excluding HKG where BA is the undisputed European airline)? 5 to PVG and 6 to PEK whereas AF have (or will have) twice daily services on their 772s and 77Ws (AF's flagship aircraft).

LH423
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RCS763AV
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:31 pm

For Latin America, its a small chance they will return to BOG, CCS, SCL or LIM. We sure miss them, but they are leaving Latin America to Iberia. In a few years, I envision the only destinations left in the continent will be MEX and GRU, the rest served by IB from MAD (if they finally purchase the airline).
 
jasepl
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:48 pm

Not much more than 10 years ago, BA flew to all these medium- and long-haul destinations, but don't anymore:

* Adelaide, Australia
* Anchorage, United States
* Auckland, New Zealand
* Bogotá, Colombia
* Brisbane, Australia
* Calgary, Canada
* Caracas, Venezuela
* Cancún, Mexico
* Charlotte, United States
* Colombo, Sri Lanka
* Dammam, Saudi Arabia
* Durban, South Africa
* Fukuoka, Japan
* Gaborone, Botswana
* Havana, Cuba
* Jakarta, Indonesia
* Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
* Kano, Nigeria
* Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
* Lilongwe, Malawi
* Lima, Peru
* Luxor, Egypt
* Manila, Philippines
* Montego Bay, Jamaica
* Nagoya, Japan
* Osaka, Japan
* Perth, Australia
* Pittsburgh, United States
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
* Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
* San Diego, United States
* San José de Costa Rica
* San Juan de Puerto Rico
* Santiago de Chile
* Seoul, Korea
* T'ai-Pei, Taiwan
* Tbilisi, Georgia
* Victoria, Seychelles

Certainly they've added destinations too, including a few they added and hen dropped, but that's still an impressive list!
 
Capital146
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:51 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10):
Also AKL, ADL and BNE



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18):
If you go back another 10 years you can add: AKL, NAN, HNL

BA also used to serve CHC in the region too.

Whilst it's unfortunate for so many cities to have lost BA service, the industry has changed so much over the past 10-15 years that many of these routes can now be more profitably served through the many code-shares and alliances which weren't widely available or simply didn't exist back then. BA, like many carriers, is no longer permitted to received government subsidies and there's no such thing as CH11 to fall back on in the UK when times are hard so they have had to streamline services and co-operate extensively with OneWorld partners to help cut expenditure.
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BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:55 pm

I never knew BA flew to Fukuoka and Lima, when was this? What were the routings?
 
neder99
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:51 am

BA does actually serve Tbilisi 3 times a week from LHR (through franchise BMED).
 
bhxdtw
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:08 am

Anyone found out about FNT yet ??
I will be very much impressed with anyone who can tell me officially whether BA served it Direct or not and you will earn a place on the hallow'ed Respected users list of mine !!
hehehe  Wink
 
747400F
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:16 am

CNL and TED were BA destinations at one time in the last 10 years also. (through Sunair franchise) in fact BA may have been the onle airline ever to serve CNL ( with J31)
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ZSOFN
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
I think DUR should be re-introduced as an alternative to CPT or JNB, slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get, so a DUR service would add capacity to the South Africa market!

Yes! I totally agree. I put forward my case for this in an old thread (see reply 32):
RE: Next Airbus A380 Customer, SAA? (by ZSOFN Jun 29 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
stirling
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 25):
I will be very much impressed with anyone who can tell me officially whether BA served it Direct or not

It's difficult to nearly impossible to prove something that never happened.

BOAC 1950

BOAC 1971

British Airways 1998

British Airways Americas 2004

British Airways Europe 2004

British Airways North America 2004

British Airways Africa/Asia 2004

.....and no Flint.....just Grand Rapids  Wink
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babybus
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:55 am

I can't remember the dates but BA didn't serve any destinations in the Irish Republic for many years. They only started again when a subsidiary company came on to run it on their behalf.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
klyk1980
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:12 am

Well..I think thats the trend to axe route among major airlines. Airlines nowaday using the power of airlines allianceto run the resource more effectively.

BA axed many routes in Asia because BA can partnership with CX, and CX seldom make major expansion in Europe because BA's Heathrow hub is an excellent gateway for Europe. NO wonder why together BA and CX can maintain a total 6 non-stop HKG-LHR DAILY, mainly using 744 or 343. Same to AA/CX, LAX is the connection spot for AA / CX, hopefully DFW will be another gateway with HKG non stop flight...sign!

So...what I think is...in the future..we will see more flights between major hubs but less branch routes serve by airlines from other continent.
 
TLVFred
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:47 am

Incredible how in BOAC 1950 timetable the route LHR-Rome-TLV-Tehran. What would it take for that to run again! From Christians to Jews to Muslims all on one flight! The special meals list doesnt bear thinking about!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get

I don't think the problem at JNB and CPT has anything to do with the availability of arrival and departure slots as those airports are not slot-restricted. Additional access to South Africa might be thwarted by restrictions in the number of available frequencies, though.

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
LHR/LGW-CGK is served by no one seeing as Garuda stopped flights to LON!

There is also very little money in this route. Virtually no high yielding traffic, and a lot of connecting traffic to tourist destinations like DPS (Bali) or JOG (Yogyakarta). I would value the chance of BA's ever returning to CGK, let alone nonstop, as very close to zero.

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 21):
Not much more than 10 years ago, BA flew to all these medium- and long-haul destinations, but don't anymore:

* Adelaide, Australia
* Anchorage, United States
* Auckland, New Zealand
* Bogotá, Colombia
* Brisbane, Australia
* Calgary, Canada
* Caracas, Venezuela
* Cancún, Mexico
* Charlotte, United States
* Colombo, Sri Lanka
* Dammam, Saudi Arabia
* Durban, South Africa
* Fukuoka, Japan
* Gaborone, Botswana
* Havana, Cuba
* Jakarta, Indonesia
* Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
* Kano, Nigeria
* Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
* Lilongwe, Malawi
* Lima, Peru
* Luxor, Egypt
* Manila, Philippines
* Montego Bay, Jamaica
* Nagoya, Japan
* Osaka, Japan
* Perth, Australia
* Pittsburgh, United States
* Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
* Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
* San Diego, United States
* San José de Costa Rica
* San Juan de Puerto Rico
* Santiago de Chile
* Seoul, Korea
* T'ai-Pei, Taiwan
* Tbilisi, Georgia
* Victoria, Seychelles

Certainly they've added destinations too, including a few they added and hen dropped, but that's still an impressive list!

That indeed seems a very impressive list, but if one were to put similar lists for Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swissair/Swiss and the like, one would see very similar sets pf destinations. As a previous insider of Swissair/Swiss, on the top of my head, here's the list:

Toronto
Philadelphia
Washington
Atlanta
San Francisco
Caracas
Rio de Janeiro
Buenos Aires
Saniago de Chile
Cape Town
Harare
Kinshasa
Libreville
Accra
Lagos
Dakar
Bamako
Banjul
Tehran
Abu Dhabi
Karachi
Delhi
Taipei
Ho Chi Minh
Jakarta
Seoul
Beijing
Shanghai
Manila
Osaka

and I might be forgetting some! Mind that Swissair/Swiss was always a much smaller airline than BA.
 
manni
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:26 pm

BA cityflyer used to serve ANR from LGW multiple times a day (operated by cityflyer express ), cancelled all it's flight into ANR a couple years ago and left the whole LON-ANR market to VLM.
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MAS777
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:11 pm

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 17):
think they already codeshare with CX to TPE, KUL, MNL and ICN. Come to think of it, this was probably the reason why they axed these destinations.

But I tried to book a return Club ticket to KUL via HKG and they don't seem to offer any fares online. When I called BA Exec Club - they quoted me some rediculous £5200 return with their code-share LHR-HKG-KUL.

We opted for Star Alliance instead and got a great deal (much less than half of BA's quoted fare) with SQ Raffles to Singapore and chose Bali (over HKG) for our holiday instead.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:57 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 7):
Was this pulled out after the attack on CMB airport?

I don't know, but I do remember a twice- or thrice-weekly schedule from LGW using the DC10 routing via AUH.

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 15):
Is there any chance of BA increasing frequencies to Cairo

In the peak season, BA normally increases the capacity on LHR-CAI by using the 744 instead of the 772. Loads and yields vary - on one BA 744 flight to CAI, it wasn't that busy, whereas on another it was very busy - as most routes do. I guess time will tell. If it does increase frequencies to CAI, say twice-daily, I suspect an aircraft downgrade, either to 772s year-round or 763s (like TLV) year-round. I wouldn't expect a peak season upgrade either.
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BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:33 pm

Was looking through a BA timetable from 1997 and found that BA also used to serve PGF and SVG from LGW.
 
BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 30):
BA axed many routes in Asia because BA can partnership with CX

Does anyone know whether BA will codeshare on CX's new flights to SGN?

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 34):
But I tried to book a return Club ticket to KUL via HKG and they don't seem to offer any fares online. When I called BA Exec Club - they quoted me some rediculous £5200 return with their code-share LHR-HKG-KUL.

I just tried booking on ba.com and it does show fares on the routing LHR-HKG-KUL (BA 0025/BA 4561 on the outbound, BA4564/BA 0026)...but you're right, its quoting £5168 for Club World!

[Edited 2005-09-18 12:40:48]
 
jasepl
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting Neder99 (Reply 24):
BA does actually serve Tbilisi 3 times a week from LHR (through franchise BMED).

That is correct! Sorry, my mistake.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 32):
That indeed seems a very impressive list, but if one were to put similar lists for Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swissair/Swiss and the like, one would see very similar sets pf destinations. As a previous insider of Swissair/Swiss, on the top of my head, here's the list:

Of course! But we weren't comparing who dropped how many routes; simply looking at how many BA ended. Besides, SR shouldn't really count, because they don't technically exist anymore.

As for BA, apparently they used to fly to these destinations as well, albeit a long time ago. Can anyone confirm?

* Abidjan, Ivory Coast
* Aden, Yemen
* Baghdad, Iraq
* Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
* Banjul, the Gambia
* Christchurch, New Zealand
* Freetown, Sierra Leone
* Karachi, Pakistan
* Maputo, Mozambique
* Monrovia, Liberia
* New Orleans, United States
* Sana'a, Yemen
 
BCA2005
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 38):
* Abidjan, Ivory Coast
* Aden, Yemen
* Baghdad, Iraq
* Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
* Banjul, the Gambia
* Christchurch, New Zealand
* Freetown, Sierra Leone
* Karachi, Pakistan
* Maputo, Mozambique
* Monrovia, Liberia
* New Orleans, United States
* Sana'a, Yemen

I can confirm that they used to fly to Abidjan and Baghdad. Someones mentioned CHC already. I didn't know that they ever served Bandar Seri.
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 2):
If you've got a 1992 timetable handy there, Mr Fbg, what was capacity like to HKG around that time?

Can't find the 1992 timetable but have a Winter '94 one.

HKG is 2x daily 747s....note BA027 is No Smoking!
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
MAS777
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:25 pm

British Airways did indeed serve Bandar Seri Begawan up until the mid-80s. BA14 - I seem to recall came in from Sydney, Brisbane and flew into BWN before continuing on to SIN and on to LHR via AUH. In those days, BA12 also called into KUL from SIN on its way back to LHR. BA's designated flight from KUL to LHR was also BA10 at the time - before it was switched to BKK.

According to close sources at BA - BA had been looking into returning into KUL earlier this year when the UK and M'sian authorities reviewed the air services agreement (for this Summer) but as KEno mentioned - the competition from MAS is so strong that BA would have to launched flights at least 5 or 6 times a week if not a daily service in order to compete with MH's 22 flights a week. BA was banking on VS withdrawing its the code-share with MH to bargain for slots into KUL. VS cunningly has renewed its code-share with MH albeit on an annual review policy - presumably to continue blocking BA's return to the route.

As I mentioned before many times - in my opinion - BA's withdrawal of Malaysia was very short-sighted indeed since the UK remains Malaysia's #1 European destination and M'sia (I gather) remains a strong long-haul destination for the UK - with trade continuing to boom between the two countries.
 
cornish
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 27):
Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
I think DUR should be re-introduced as an alternative to CPT or JNB, slots at CPT and JNB are very hard to get, so a DUR service would add capacity to the South Africa market!

Yes! I totally agree. I put forward my case for this in an old thread (see reply 32):

Not a chance of it ever happening. Especially with BA Comair around to fly the connection. DUR would be allmost entirely leisure only and it would be very hard to make money on the route if it followed the standard EUR-SA pattern of the aircraft sitting on the ground all day before an evening departure.

Besides, the main reason slots are hard to get at JNB and CPT with regards to UK-SA traffic is due to the slot issues at LHR actually. The SA government refuse to increase the number of flights in the bilateral becuase SAA want additional slots at certain times at LHR and seem to think that the governments can agree to this, not realising that is entirely down to BAA or existing carriers selling slots and that the UK government cannot tell BAA to give SAA slots at LHR at X-hour or whenever.
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BCAL
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:48 pm

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 38):
As for BA, apparently they used to fly to these destinations as well, albeit a long time ago. Can anyone confirm?

* Abidjan, Ivory Coast
* Aden, Yemen
* Baghdad, Iraq
* Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
* Banjul, the Gambia
* Christchurch, New Zealand
* Freetown, Sierra Leone
* Karachi, Pakistan
* Maputo, Mozambique
* Monrovia, Liberia
* New Orleans, United States
* Sana'a, Yemen

Abidjan, Banjul and Freetown were routes that BA acquired from BCal following their merger with BA in 1988. Although BCal (and BUA before them) operated to these destinations successfully for many years, BA soon pulled out. Maputo and Monrovia were former BCal destinations that they were forced to hand back to BA following a review of the UK Civil Aviation in the late 1970s.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 42):
Not a chance of it ever happening. Especially with BA Comair around to fly the connection. DUR would be allmost entirely leisure only and it would be very hard to make money on the route if it followed the standard EUR-SA pattern of the aircraft sitting on the ground all day before an evening departure.

I'm not too sure. The marginal costs are relatively small (no extra equipment needed - using otherwise redundant a/c), fuel is relatively SO cheap down in DUR with a direct pipe feed from the refinery at the far side of Rwy 6/24 (from sources at DUR this does make it a lot cheaper than JNB). BA used to fly the 744 down there so that it could fill up on the way back up to MLW for landing at JNB, overall saving a lot on fuel. That's what kept SQ doing the same until 2002 or so, so I wouldn't say there's no chance.

DUR is not much more of a leisure destination than CPT (granted there's some business in CPT but not much), and has a larger population than CPT. I don't think it's such a bad idea, particularly when (if) the newer airport opens at LaMercy.
 
cornish
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:58 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 44):
I'm not too sure. The marginal costs are relatively small (no extra equipment needed - using otherwise redundant a/c), fuel is relatively SO cheap down in DUR with a direct pipe feed from the refinery at the far side of Rwy 6/24 (from sources at DUR this does make it a lot cheaper than JNB). BA used to fly the 744 down there so that it could fill up on the way back up to MLW for landing at JNB, overall saving a lot on fuel. That's what kept SQ doing the same until 2002 or so, so I wouldn't say there's no chance.

If DUR ever happened again it would probably be an extension of the JNB service, or a stop on the CPT service. But I still don't see it happening, definitely not while the BA Comair deal is in place.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 44):
BA used to fly the 744 down there

Yes apparently so - that surprised me as I was under the impression from people in SA when I was out there in June/July that DUR had too small a runway for a full 747 takeoff.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 44):
DUR is not much more of a leisure destination than CPT (granted there's some business in CPT but not much), and has a larger population than CPT.

But I think CPT is a much higher yielding leisure destination, at least from the UK than DUR. The demand is higher, and there are some VERY wealthy regular travellers in the Cape Area.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 45):
If DUR ever happened again it would probably be an extension of the JNB service

Absolutely, that's what I had in mind.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 45):
Yes apparently so - that surprised me as I was under the impression from people in SA when I was out there in June/July that DUR had too small a runway for a full 747 takeoff.

Yeah I flew the route back in the mid '90s - was great   The runway can be an issue when wet. Had some weight limits and granted this can negate some of the fuel advantages.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 45):
But I think CPT is a much higher yielding leisure destination, at least from the UK than DUR. The demand is higher, and there are some VERY wealthy regular travellers in the Cape Area.


I must concede there   I think that's generally true, although with DUR's proximity to a lot of game parks and the like, there is a market there. Ultimately you may be right that this market is not significant enough.

However with the new airport there will be a lot of cargo action there and this could sway the decision...

[Edited 2005-09-20 13:16:00]
 
cornish
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RE: Decreasing BA Route Network

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 46):
think that's generally true, although with DUR's proximity to a lot of game parks and the like, there is a market there. Ultimately you may be right that this market is not significant enough.

Part of the problem may be that from my talks with the South African Tourist Board they clearly have no interest in promoting the potential of the beaches of Durban. They really should be promoting the idea of a week in the game reserves and a week on the beach to higher end tourists, which Kenya for example seems to be doing so successfully these days. But they don't seem to be interested in this - a very strange decision in my view.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work