FaroeFlyer
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Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:58 am

How come many airliners used to have black noses? Fashion of the day or any practical use?


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When I was really young I thought it was a rubber, so that the aircraft would bounce  bouncy  if it crashed. Had no logical sense at all  dopey 
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B777200
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:02 am

I asked this same question earlier today, 17th September, 2005, in the Airliners.Net chat room. I was told it was to reduce glare effects for the Pilots.
 
FaroeFlyer
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:07 am

Any idea why it was discontinued?
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:21 am

Isn't it a paint that does not reflect the Weather radar Echos.Earlier it was available only in black.
However nowadays various colours are available.Also a Rubber cap
Nicknamed the Condom is placed over the Radome tip to prevent damage caused by the Airflow over its surface.
regds
MEL
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SATL382G
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:22 am

The material the old radomes were made out of was black. If the airline paints the very tip of the radome black, then it won't have to repaint so often because the chips won't show.....

Radome materials now are typically grey.....
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tbanger
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:31 am

Different paints alone do not affect RADAR returns or interference. Metal however does. This is why radomes are made from composite materials.

Now we have all sorts of errosion problems hence the rubber protectors mentioned above.

One problem we do have with composite materials though is the inability to conduct electricity. Lightning or electricity will ALWAYS finding the quickest route to earth. In most cases that quickest way through a radome is to the radar antenna located only inches behind the radome.

To prevent this, they install bonding leads inside the radome to allow the lightning to pass through the radome and into the metal fuselage section, then hopefully it passes out through the static wicks...(doesn't alwasy work though).

For these bonding leads to work effectively, we need to coat the composite radome with a conductive paint. Namely this is a black paint which also has errosion resistant properties to it. This special paint does NOT affect radar returns. (Costs about $500USD for a 1.25 gallon kit)

Now why did they leave them black you ask? Simply because paints weren't the standard 20 years ago that they are today. Imagine a white aircraft with a black undercoat so to speak. When the top coat errodes away from rain etc, it will look quite messy.

Paints nowadays are like armour plating, so to speak and hence offer greater rain errosion properties then their older counterparts. Paint covered with a 'condom' is the best measure to protect the radome.

One other problem that you can find is depending on the aircrafts logo, radomes often get removed from one aircraft, repaired and then installed onto another aircraft. Sometimes cheat lines and even the top coat colours don't always match up. Leaving them black was a simple solution.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:10 am

This was discussed further in the Tech/Ops forum recently:
BA 737 & 757 Black Nose Bands (by Hals Sep 11 2005 in Tech Ops)
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Tbanger (Reply 5):
Paints nowadays are like armour plating, so to speak and hence offer greater rain errosion properties then their older counterparts. Paint covered with a 'condom' is the best measure to protect the radome.

Slightly off topic but isn't paint statically charged now to attract itself to and bond easier with the fuselage when coming out of the gun and drying onto the plane?
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting Tbanger (Reply 5):
Different paints alone do not affect RADAR returns or interference



Quoting Tbanger (Reply 5):
This special paint does NOT affect radar returns.

Earlier it was Available in Black only.The Other Colours were not Available then.
regds
MEL
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EMBQA
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Reply 2):
Any idea why it was discontinued?

It hasn't really been discontinued. Newer paint technology has allowed paint manufactures to produce a 'matt' finish in the same color as the primary color. If you look closely you will see the 'new' glareshield paint.
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spencer
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:17 pm

To produce a matt finish isn't anything new in itself, merely another technique in the final phase of preparation. There is statically charged paint, but AFAIK it isn't use in the aviation trade, mostly in car factories. It is not necessarily for adhesion purposes, but for a cleaner, smoother surface.
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N766UA
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RE: Why Black Nose

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting B777200 (Reply 1):
I asked this same question earlier today, 17th September, 2005, in the Airliners.Net chat room. I was told it was to reduce glare effects for the Pilots.

Actually, this is why the area above the radome and below the cockpit windows is painted black. Note Air Tran and Southwest. It doesn't explain the black tip of the radome.
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aviatortj
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RE: Why Black Nose

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:39 am

I also remember reading in a magazine that when it originally came out that the black nose was used to show off the radar. It kind of worked along the cheat line technique. Personally, I wish AA would keep the black nose on their planes. I was looking through some of my photos the other day and had some of the NW bowling shoe planes with black noses. It's a damn good look.

Edit: After quickly perusing the database, I see no photographic evidence of this NW DC-10. Maybe I'll get to scanning my old old stuff soon.

[Edited 2005-09-18 18:52:14]
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Why Black Nose

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:19 am

My question is off-topic but I wonder why some cars in the US have black covers over the front too?

Georg.
 
EI321
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RE: Why Black Nose

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:36 am

 
JAM747
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RE: Why Black Nose

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:44 am

[quote=Jorge1812,reply=13]My question is off-topic but I wonder why some cars in the US have black covers over the front too?

Georg.[/quote

The cover is called a 'bra' and it's function is to protect against gravel and small stones which might put scratches and chips in the bumper and hood while driving. Especially on the highway others cars and truck in front might flip these hazards on the the car behind. The 'bra' is made mostly from vinyl, or canvas material which is usually black. Some people put these on just for decoration if they like the look.
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Black Nose

Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 13):
My question is off-topic but I wonder why some cars in the US have black covers over the front too?

Those covers, often called bras for slang (in German, it would be a BH), are supposed to protect the nose of the car from bugs and other road debris, though they normally have the function of causing uneven paint wear
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jorge1812
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RE: Why Black Nose

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 15):
The cover is called a 'bra' and it's function is to protect against gravel and small stones which might put scratches and chips in the bumper and hood while driving. Especially on the highway others cars and truck in front might flip these hazards on the the car behind. The 'bra' is made mostly from vinyl, or canvas material which is usually black. Some people put these on just for decoration if they like the look.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):

Those covers, often called bras for slang (in German, it would be a BH), are supposed to protect the nose of the car from bugs and other road debris, though they normally have the function of causing uneven paint wear

Thanks to you two.
That's what I thought too, but I thought just to protect the car it's too ugly...

Georg.
 
dean
Posts: 191
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RE: Why Black Nose

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Malev still has the black nose:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...20282

It's blue  Smile

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