commavia
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Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:03 am

Well, it's official: DFW is going to be moving airlines around in 2006!

As has long been rumored, American Eagle will be taking over all of Terminal B. All of the airlines currently in Terminal B, plus Spirit -- which begins service in January -- will all be moving over to a refurbished Terminal E. That means that America West-USAirways, ATA, Frontier, Mesa and United will all be moving to Terminal E. E's satellite will remain empty for the time being.

Terminal B's current 32 gates will probably be reworked into 35-40 gates for exclusive use by Eagle's RJs. In addition, Eagle will continue to use D38-D40 for international flights, and Eagle will vacate the Terminal A satellite.

DFW's Airport Board has earmarked $15M for refurbishments to Terminal E to make way for the new airlines, although I suspect it will cost many, many millions more to not only "un-Deltafy" Terminal D, but also many, many millions more to reconfigure all of the gates in Terminal B to realign them for handling tiny RJs instead of 737s, A320s and 747s.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/12672031.htm
 
king
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:10 am

Meetings are already well under way. Frontier, Midwest and ATA will be the next to move from B to E (gates E32-35). The timeline called for November 01, but that has been pushed back to November 15.

Plan on Untied putting up a fight.
 
commavia
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting King (Reply 1):
Meetings are already well under way. Frontier, Midwest and ATA will be the next to move from B to E (gates E32-35).

Why, in particular, are F9, YX and TZ moving to E32-E35? Why those gates?

Quoting King (Reply 1):
Plan on Untied putting up a fight.

Why? Is it the cost of moving, or something else?

And -- what is the HP/US position on the move?
 
king
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:45 am

I am not sure why F9, YX and TZ have been assigned to gates E32-35. I have seen the airport's map of E, and it does have F9 at E32. Those gates are adjacent to the last open ticket counter and are primo spots. F9 is anxious to move to get it over with and to not get stuck down at E37-39.
Gates E32-35 are near the one the new Skylink train stations so there is lots of open space in the gate area.

United has a nice spot in B (big bag room, nice office space and club lounge). They have already moved once in terminal B to accommodate AA's first expansion into B. Now, I forget which airport it is but they want AA to give up some gates to them before they give AA what they want in B. I believe UA has a lease until 2008 in terminal B. If they wait till then, I fear they will get stuck out on the satellite terminal on E. They should move while they have some options at E.
 
airplaneboy
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:06 am

Hi King!

How's DFW? I asked about you when I last stopped by.

It's great to hear that we'll have a gate near our own ticket counter space. Can the same be said about our baggage claim location as well? It'd be nice if it is located near the gate.

I hope all is well at the zoo!  Smile

Cheers!

AirplaneBoy
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:17 am

Where are the Eagle Saab's going to be? Are they going to using B for them too?
 
king
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
Where are the Eagle Saab's going to be? Are they going to using B for them too?

If they still have the SF3's they will be at B as well. All of the Eagle aircraft will be at B except for the 2 international gates in D (which is adjacent to B).

They will have to use a commute-a-walk for the SF3's. They are currently using them at the satellite building at terminal A.
 
airstatdfw
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
Quoting King (Reply 1):
Meetings are already well under way. Frontier, Midwest and ATA will be the next to move from B to E (gates E32-35).

Why, in particular, are F9, YX and TZ moving to E32-E35? Why those gates?

If I remember correctly this will be which airline has which gate (subject to change). Spirit E2, NW E4-E6, CO E7-E9, TZ E10, AS E11, DL E12-E15, FL E16-E18, UA E20-E21, E31, US / HP E32-E36, F9 E37, YX E38

Spirit, TZ, YX, F9 are still up in the air in which gates they are going to get. I do know that E2 and E10 are open. All of those carriers including AS are one gate operations. There has been talk of moving CO and NW down were NW would have gates E2-E5 and CO having E6-E8. Who knows we will have to wait and see.

Quoting King (Reply 1):
Plan on Untied putting up a fight.

United does not want to move and I don't blame them. They just remodeled their Red Carpet room in the New Skylink station in Term B. I do know that UA wants a Red carpet room in Term E and that is one of reasons of not wanting to go over to Term E. There is a old DL club room in the Sat term which will remain closed. The other old DL club room the Airport wants to do something with it so its not available either. The Airport would have to build UA a new club.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
Where are the Eagle Saab's going to be? Are they going to using B for them too?

Off of gate B34-B36 they are supposed to build a finger that extends off to the North West for the Saab's to park

AirStatDFW
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:53 am

I guess this is how DFW will make lemonade out of lemons.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:48 am

This really does make the most sense - I think most DFW fans saw this coming as soon as the Delta hub was dismantled.

This move, coupled with the shift of international flights to Terminal D, should give American LOTS of breathing room to add new flights, both mainline and Eagle. With the international birds now at D, AA has the equivalent of about 20 "new" domestic gates at Terminal A. These gates handle domestic flights in between international services, but now they can be shifted to domestic flying full-time.

Slightly off-topic... anyone know if American will renovate Terminal A to remove the sterile corridors, glassed-in waiting rooms and escalators at all of the current international gates?

As for Terminal E needing renovation, I've always thought it was one of the nicer terminals at DFW. Delta redid its gate areas in the late 1990s, adding new signage and carpeting. Much of it is Delta-specific (the "Deltaflot" logos will need to come off the walls) but the terminal should still be in reasonably good shape.
 
skedguy
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:09 pm

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9):
This really does make the most sense - I think most DFW fans saw this coming as soon as the Delta hub was dismantled.

This move, coupled with the shift of international flights to Terminal D, should give American LOTS of breathing room to add new flights, both mainline and Eagle. With the international birds now at D, AA has the equivalent of about 20 "new" domestic gates at Terminal A. These gates handle domestic flights in between international services, but now they can be shifted to domestic flying full-time.

If Eagle will get the B-gates, and AA already has A, C, and D, what would be left for a potential newcomer such as WN? DFW costs are already high enough, so adding Terminal F would intuitively drive costs even higher, right?
 
NikonDFW
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting Commavia (Thread starter):
Terminal B's current 32 gates will probably be reworked into 35-40 gates for exclusive use by Eagle's RJs. In addition, Eagle will continue to use D38-D40 for international flights, and Eagle will vacate the Terminal A satellite

Some of AE's gates will have double jetbridges,B19A & B19B,etc...I've heard AE will have the terminal capacity to run close to 500 flights a day or more out of "B"when it's all finished.
 
NikonDFW
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9):
With the international birds now at D, AA has the equivalent of about 20 "new" domestic gates at Terminal A. These gates handle domestic flights in between international services, but now they can be shifted to domestic flying full-time.

AA is closing down quite a few gates in A and C when the international flights due move over to D.
 
commavia
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:10 pm

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9):
With the international birds now at D, AA has the equivalent of about 20 "new" domestic gates at Terminal A.

It's not nearly that many. The international flights will probaby clear up the equivelant of 5-10 gates all told, not 20.

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9):
Slightly off-topic... anyone know if American will renovate Terminal A to remove the sterile corridors, glassed-in waiting rooms and escalators at all of the current international gates?

A is slowly being renovated and having new terazzo marble and carpets, and AA's new gate counter backsplashes installed.

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 12):
AA is closing down quite a few gates in A and C when the international flights due move over to D.

What? Details please. Thanks.
 
NikonDFW
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
What? Details please. Thanks.

A9 thru A16 and C30 thru C39 are closing, plus multiple single gates in both A and C are closing as well. AA will not gain extra gates when D opens, it will pretty much be a even trade.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:00 pm

As far as United not wanting to move from "B" is the fact that United has its Magic Carpet Club in B and does not want to have to move it or renovate a former "Crown Room".
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
utapao
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:50 pm

Any update on AA's move of international flights into Terminal D?
Sawasdee khrab!
 
BN747DFWHNL
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:17 am

The move will add color to the east side of the airport and interest for spotters at the Plaza (something more than gleaming silver to look at). Too bad DFW doesn't have an adjacent spotting area on the west side now that the International Terminal is operational.

Amazing how things change; in the '80s, who would have believed that DL, NW, US, and UA would all file for bankruptcy protection and that Delta would one day only have three gates at its former second hub, Terminal "4E?"
 
AAtakeMeAway
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:56 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 14):
A9 thru A16 and C30 thru C39 are closing, plus multiple single gates in both A and C are closing as well. AA will not gain extra gates when D opens, it will pretty much be a even trade.

What are they planning on doing with those gates in A and C?

Quoting Commavia (Thread starter):
Eagle will vacate the Terminal A satellite.

 bigthumbsup 
 
planespotting
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:07 am

I liked United's spot in Terminal B. The gates were right next to the McDonalds and it was just a short walk to the international gates.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting Skedguy (Reply 10):
If Eagle will get the B-gates, and AA already has A, C, and D, what would be left for a potential newcomer such as WN? DFW costs are already high enough, so adding Terminal F would intuitively drive costs even higher, right?

WN is not moving to DFW, unless DAL closes (not likly to happen). Yes, building Terminal F will drive up operating costs of DFW. The last I heard on Terminal F is construction start is planned for 2015, and 42 months to build it. Of course, a lot can, and most likely will, change by then.

Quoting Utapao (Reply 16):
Any update on AA's move of international flights into Terminal D?

AA will not move until the baggage handling system problems are worked out. That will probibly be between the middle and end of October now.

Quoting BN747DFWHNL (Reply 17):
Delta would one day only have three gates at its former second hub

DL still has 4 gates in Terminal E, gates E12-E15.

DFW does have a few things going for them that will actually reduce airline operating costs at DFW. There is a plan for DFW to build their own electric generation plant. Estimated costs to build this plant is about $450M. But DFW currently pays around $100M per year for electricity, so an electrical generating plant will pay for itself in under 5 years. The other thing going for DFW is the airport, and most of Tarrant County sits on top of the Barnett Shale natueral gas field. They have been developing this field all over the county. The airport is in talks the drilling company that is developing the field to allow drilling on airport property. Part of this deal may include supplying natueral gas to run the planned electric gereration station, plus royalities.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting NikonDFW (Reply 14):
A9 thru A16 and C30 thru C39 are closing, plus multiple single gates in both A and C are closing as well. AA will not gain extra gates when D opens, it will pretty much be a even trade.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, the last three times I have flown into DFW from BHM I have had to wait on the tarmac anywhere from 30-60 minutes for an available gate. With gate space at such a premium, why would they be closing gates? Are they being renovated to be reopened at a later date?

Gaining gates for Eagle, but losing gates for mainline? Not a good sign, IMHO...
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 21):
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, the last three times I have flown into DFW from BHM I have had to wait on the tarmac anywhere from 30-60 minutes for an available gate.

It is not uncommon for AA jets to be on a gate hold. Upon approaching DFW, the flight gets assigned a gate by the AA tower here. If that gate remains occupied, your jet will ahve to wait until it is vacant.

The problem with this system is if AA has delays, almost anywhere within their system, there is a ripple effect throughout the entire AA system. It is near impossible for AA to catch up. So, just about every delay (weather, machanical, etc.) will always effect the AA DFW hub.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
It is not uncommon for AA jets to be on a gate hold. Upon approaching DFW, the flight gets assigned a gate by the AA tower here. If that gate remains occupied, your jet will ahve to wait until it is vacant.

I understand Boomer, all three times I arrived it was in the early evening bank and things were very hectic. But instead of taking the opportunity to alleviate some of these gate holds by increasing the number of domestic narrowbody gates available, they are reducing them (per NikonDFW).

Certainly leaves one scratching their head....
 
COERJ145
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:41 am

How is the AA Eagle sattilite DFW terminal, and the E sattilite terminal, i'm flying AA(again) to PSP from BOS, and back in dec., and have about 2 hrs of layover on my return sector. Is visiting those 2 terminals worth it?


-Jeff M
 
commavia
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 24):
How is the AA Eagle sattilite DFW terminal, and the E sattilite terminal, i'm flying AA(again) to PSP from BOS, and back in dec., and have about 2 hrs of layover on my return sector. Is visiting those 2 terminals worth it?

I, personally, don't mind the Eagle A satellite at all. The shuttle bus service running from underground around A6 in the main terminal is very convenient and runs about every 2 minutes. The ride is only about 2 minutes and the view from tarmac level is great. The satellite itself is actually beautiful inside -- very clean, modern, airy, open -- it looks just like a brand new, state-of-the-art airport terminal that would be built today, only shrunken down to miniature size. It's really cool. That being said, many people -- again, not including me -- hate the A satellite because it involves an extra connection, at least in some sense, with having to take the bus, and because you can't walk to it yourself.

The Terminal E satellite, however, is nothing like the A satellite -- the main difference being that the A satellite was built around 1999-2001, and was specifically designed for regional/commuter flights. The gate areas are smaller, with fewer seats, and the jetbridges are tiny, but perfectly sized for SAABs and RJs. Terminal E's satellite, however, was constructed in the late 1980s or early 1990s (IIRC) and was originally designed for use by DL mainline 737s and MD80s. I remember walking through the terminal when it was configured for 10-12 mainline gates. Only recently (up until last year's massive DFW pulldown) was DL using it for Embraers and CRJs, and thus had reworked the satellite with all those spider-like Commute-A-Walks leeding out to 10-20 hardstands for props and jets.

IMO, the Terminal A satellite is much nicer than the Terminal E satellite, because it is much newer, more modern and more clean.
 
airstatdfw
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 24):
How is the AA Eagle sattilite DFW terminal, and the E sattilite terminal, i'm flying AA(again) to PSP from BOS, and back in dec., and have about 2 hrs of layover on my return sector. Is visiting those 2 terminals worth it?

You can see the Term E Sat from skylink but it is closed since no one is operating out of it. You can walk by the entrance in Term E and see the gate the closes the underground walkway.

AirStatDFW
 
king
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 24):
How is the AA Eagle sattilite DFW terminal, and the E sattilite terminal, i'm flying AA(again) to PSP from BOS, and back in dec., and have about 2 hrs of layover on my return sector. Is visiting those 2 terminals worth it?

Just to add to Commavia, the terminal E satellite is currently closed off. You cannot gain access to the underground walkway.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting Commavia (Thread starter):
As has long been rumored, American Eagle will be taking over all of Terminal B. All of the airlines currently in Terminal B, plus Spirit -- which begins service in January -- will all be moving over to a refurbished Terminal E. That means that America West-USAirways, ATA, Frontier, Mesa and United will all be moving to Terminal E. E's satellite will remain empty for the time being.

Just a question from a person who has little clue on airport operations....do these airlines HAVE to relocate? What if they simply "no" and stay where they are? Can the airport force them to relocate? Who covers the incurred expenses?
A330 man.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Official: Airlines To Move Terminals At DFW!

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting King (Reply 27):
Just to add to Commavia, the terminal E satellite is currently closed off. You cannot gain access to the underground walkway.



Quoting Commavia (Reply 25):
I, personally, don't mind the Eagle A satellite at all. The shuttle bus service running from underground around A6 in the main terminal is very convenient and runs about every 2 minutes. The ride is only about 2 minutes and the view from tarmac level is great. The satellite itself is actually beautiful inside -- very clean, modern, airy, open -- it looks just like a brand new, state-of-the-art airport terminal that would be built today, only shrunken down to miniature size. It's really cool. That being said, many people -- again, not including me -- hate the A satellite because it involves an extra connection, at least in some sense, with having to take the bus, and because you can't walk to it yourself.

Thanks for the info guys, i'll have to check out the A sattilite, and the new D terminal while i'm there.

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