ETStar
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Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:20 am

While I understand that typical work days for flight attendants vary from country to country due to either federal regulations or labour relations, what are the typical lengths of work days with airlines around the world? While long distance flights such as trans-pac or trans-atl would easily give an FA close to a 10 hour flight in one shot, what's the case in short hops, which include going from an aircraft to another to fly multiple flights? Can you please name airlines and give examples? It'd be great to hear of international flights!

Also, do FAs based with European airlines do multiple hops, as in for example with BA, a day consisting of LHR-CDG-LHR, LHR-FRA-LHR, LHR-FCO-LHR etc?

Finally what is the maximum an FA can fly in one day, according to the airline(s) you know of? Does it include down time between flights in the same day?
 
WNfan333
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:41 pm

RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:14 am

I am curious myself. I was just offered a position with two airlines, some I am looking foward to finding out a typical day in the life of a F/A...
Billy
 
FutureFO
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:53 am

US Regulations require a maximum duty day of 14 hours. That can be extended up to 16 in situations beyond airline control. However working days are maxed at 8 hours of actual work. Duty and Work are 2 different forms of regulation.


Sean from MCO
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
NWAFA
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:57 am

Actually FutureFO, your incorrect here. There is no max for FLIGHT ATTENDANTS - ask the JetBlue kids.

At NWA (for now) max "duty day" is can't be scheduled over 13 hours but can be pushed to 14 hours. Max "domestic" hard fly cant be scheduled over 8 hours but can be pushed until day is completed if the duty day has started. Internationally (over the ponds) cant be scheduled over 16 hours but can be pushed to 18 hours of duty day.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
ETStar
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:02 am

So clarify this for me: duty day vs working day.

Is duty day say, 10 hours from point of arrival at airport for first flight to point of leaving the airport at the end of day, with working day being the actual hours flown or in an aircraft?
 
nwajetset
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:35 am

RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:35 pm

A duty day is from the time you sign in at the airport (an hour prior to first departure), until the end of your day. The release time (end) is fifteen minutes after your last flight "blocks in" or parks at the gate.

A work day only consists of "block to block" time. That is, "block out" (when the brakes are released at the gate) to "block in" (parked at the gate). So essentially, you can easily work a 14 hour duty day, but only a 7 hour work day.

An example: departure flight xyz at 9:00 am
Sign in at 8:00 am
Flight departs at 9:00 am 1:20 duration
Arrives at 10:20am
flight 2 abc Departs at 12:00 2:00 duration
Arrives at 2:00pm
flight 3 def Departs at 3:15pm 1:45 duration
Arrives at 5:00pm
flight 4 ghi Departs at 6:45pm 1:15 duration
Arrives at 8:00pm
flight 5 jkl Departs at 9:00pm 1:00 duration
Arrives at 10:00pm

This is actually a pretty typical day at NWA. Notice all the downtime between flights, this still constitues your duty day, but not your work day, or "hard fly" or "in the air" hours. This is an example of a 14 hour duty day, but a 7 hour and 20 minute work day.
 
GOAQ
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:56 pm

At AA, scheduling can push it up to 15hours for a duty day. But our duty aloft, actuall flight time flown in one day cannot exceed 8:59. Many, many, many of our sequences, 1day, 2day, or 3day trips are getting to a point that it's the norm to see it scheduled for a 13hr duty day. Sequences can be built as 4 legs the first day, 5 legs the next day and 4 legs the third day. Not to mention the layover rest that we get, or should I say NOT get. Lot's of times now, by the time we get to our hotel rooms, it's lucky we get 5hrs of shut eye. And that's scheduled.  banghead 
 
ETStar
Topic Author
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:55 pm

Thanks for the explanations. Any other airlines' practices anyone want to share? DL? CO? B6? WN?

Also, is duty time paid? Is there some allowance for when you are not flying? Any lounges that are specifically setup for your airline's crew to chill in when between flights?
 
MarshalN
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:56 pm

So how does it work for a flight like CO's HKG-EWR? With that sort of legal restriction, what do they do? They flight time is 16 hours or more
 
FutureFO
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:57 pm

NWA,

Our rules say 14 hours duty extendable to 16 for WX, ATC, etc. But max flying we can do is 8hours.


Sean from MCO
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
797
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:16 pm

Recently, I spoke to a FA working for AA, and that day she did BOS-MIA-CCS-MIA-BOS, and she was destroyed... She said that was a very long and tyring day...
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
Avianca
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting 797 (Reply 10):
Recently, I spoke to a FA working for AA, and that day she did BOS-MIA-CCS-MIA-BOS, and she was destroyed...

wow this is a really long day....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
corsairf/a
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:20 pm

At Corsair, I do 4 flights per month as most of them are long haul.
 
TG990
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:32 pm

So which hours do you actually get paid for? The working ones obviously, right? You don't get paid for the whole duty hours?
 
mandala499
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:40 pm

One airline here tries to go for 4 cycles a day... But here are some examples:

Standard report in (Duty Starts) 1 hr before flight.
Duty release 30mins after last landing.

CGK-PNK-CGK, 2x 50 mins, ground stop 40 mins.
Flight time: 1h40
Duty time: 3h10

3day tour:
CGK-SRG-CGK-SRG
3 cycles, 3h50 mins flt, 3x 40mins ground
2h30 flight. 3h30 duty. Straight to the hotel arrive 9pm and sleep coz...

SRG-CGK-MES-PKU-MES-CGK-TKG
1st flight 6am. 9hr 50 flight. 14h40 duty day.

TKG-CGK-SOC-CGK
6am departure again. 2h50 flight, 5h20 duty. *then standby the next day, though they go last in line to be called for duty, see below (limitations).
---

Another airline does one duty day for their crew that is:
10 legs x 30 mins = 5hrs
Total groundstop = 4h30 ground intermediate.
Duty sign in and release: 1h30
Total duty day: 11hrs.

For the above... it's the same crew for the whole day... ie. the flight deck has the same duty legs/hrs. And often they do 6 days on 1 day off... right on the limit.

Limitations for F/As (Domestic Flights) are:
Max continuous daily scheduled duty: 14hrs.
Duties up to 14hrs require 9hrs consecutive rest. 8hr rest allowed if after that duty day rest of 10hrs is scheduled.
Duties up to 16hrs may be scheduled if: Not operating with minimum F/A (at least minimum +1).
For duty days 16 - 18hrs, minimum +2 (Some airline does this one)
For 18 - 20, minimum +3.
If F/A under ground transportation provided by company from/to home/outstation accomodation to/from airport, not counted as duty.

Pay? Medium rates (depending on airlines).
Basic salary about US$200 - 300 a month.
Meal Allowances: B=US$2.5, L=US$5, D=US$5
Hourly Flight pay: US$5 - 7.5 an hour (after the first 10hrs).
Go to the airport because crew transport screw up=$7.5-10 reimbursement.

Flight pay = flight hours.
Meal allowances cover your duty period.
Some airlines also give outstation layover allowances.

Take home between US$400 - 600 a month... and they don't make her clean the toilets (unlike some airline with half that pay for the same hours!)

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
salso
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:00 am

Adria Airways (Slovenia):

I don't know the maximum of working hours per day, but I never get more than one flight per day and around three per week (unless there is a staffing shortage and I'm on "stand-by"= waiting by the phone).

Adria only operates short-haul and regional flights (the longest being to Las Palmas on the Canary Islands; around 4 hours long, only a summer charter 1x weekly flight). Usually the flights are between 45 min (i.e. LJU-ZRH, -VIE, -MUC) and 2 hours (like LJU-LHR, -CDG...). So it's like 8 hours at work that day and then a couple of days off. The crew always (more or less) returns back to LJU the same day.
 
nwajetset
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:16 am

We aren't paid for our duty day, only our actual flight hours. We do receive a per diem of 2 something an hour for all time away from base. So if we sign in and leave on a 4 day trip, per diem accrues until we return to base at the end of the trip.

The long haul flights are extended duty flights, and these can be up to 18 hours long. Most contracts make special allowances for these flights, but I'm sure each airline is different. At NWA, the provision is made that your legal rest following these flights must be double the flight time. There are also 3 to 4 hour breaks during flight.
 
pualani
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:33 am

I typically fly Trans-Pac with Hawaiian and usual duty day involves checking in late morning/early afternoon for a evening arrival on the West Coast...about A 7 hr duty day with 5.5 hrs flight credit. On the rare occasion I fly interisland, the hours are paid differently. Since the flights average only 20mins or so between islands with the exception of KOA and ITO, we are paid our hourly X 60% of our on duty time. So if I check in at 1300 and check out at 1930 and having completed a 6 landing day HNL-OGG-HNL-LIH-HNL-KOA-HNL. I will get around 4.3 hrs credited.


pualani
 
ETStar
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RE: Typical Length Of Work Day For FA Around The World

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:37 am

Do FA schedules include flights or days that include a red-eye, say LAX-JFK, then a quick hop elsewhere, such as a 1 hour flight to DCA, which would still be under the 8:59 hours? Or are there provisions that prohibit that? I can't even imagine how much goes into planning and schedulnig all this, with the FAA rules, union rules etc.

I was also reading somewhere that AA "cut back" the scheduled flight times between DFW and HNL so that they could do without a third pilot on each flight. Yet, flights are still arriving a little over 8 hours into the flight, which is still above the max allowed hours.