gokmengs
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:28 am

I just flew IST-JFK today at the IST airport I was talking to the DL Exec who I made friends with flying the route frequently over the years. I was very surprised about what he was saying. He said Bankruptcy will help them reorganize and all that, but when I asked the performance of the IST-JFK-IST route he said "superb" and "very profitable" he said they want to keep it daily for the winter season if they can and because of the reduced flights he said they have to send so many pax using the AF and AZ codeshare on the dates of no IST-JFK direct.
Also he said failed ATL-IST route was wrong timing and mentioned that another DL flight will start soon, I said wow they are going to try ATL again he said " canit very well likely be CVG" because of the connecting Turkish pax stats. I was very surprised about that, I was definetly expecting ATL-IST but not CVG. But he said either or so enything can happen I'm just happy for IST because he said one of the either is definite.
Also during flight I was on BizE and the F/A who also remembered from other flights said they are going to new seats and new 2-1-2 config on BizE very soon she said the seats would be "sleeper seats". I heard about a seat material change coming but I wasn't expecting the config change to 2-1-2. I asked her again and she said "soon baby" Smile Thats all the news and rumors I have from the DL IST angle. Looking forward to hear everyone's ideas and opinions.
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DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:19 pm

While I can't comment about whether CVG or ATL have a bigger Turskish population than the other, I can't really imagine CVG-IST becoming a reality. First I doubt that the market is there, and second, for flights to Europe DL (outside of their Top 5 markets FRA/LGW/AMS/FCO/CDG), only knows two gateways: ATL and JFK. JFK is already served, primarily for O&D reasons and a few connections. ATL would make sense so as to take connection pax of the JFK flight and keep that for O&D, and still make a buck on it. ATL-IST might very well return, but with DL planning routes like ATL-DUS or JFK-KBP, you can't really say what their next move will be.
JFK-IST remaining daily year-round might be true as well. IST has off-season gone from 3x weekly to now 5x weekly, so daily is not that far off, especially given that DL does have planes available for those 2 extra frequencies.
Now about the seats, that rumor has long been floating around. It is a fact that DL wants to overhaul BizE, but that is were the facts stop. It appears very likely that DL will go with sleeper seats, but going 2-1-2 on their 763s is another story. Having sleeper seats replace the current seats would already result in 1 row getting lost, due to the extra pitch needed, and 2-1-2 would yet eliminate even more seats, taking the number of BizE seats down to 20. Now, DL could take out some economy seats, but DL traditionally has seen more stable economy bookings than BizE bookings on most routes. Sure there are exceptions where it could work, like CDG, LGW or FRA, but at the same time there are routes like BRU, where BizE isn't that important.
Just my 2 cents, but we'll have to see what DL will do.
 
gokmengs
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:22 pm

DAL767400ER welcome to my respected list. Thanks for sharing your info.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
I can't really imagine CVG-IST becoming a reality.

I was surprised when the DL exec mentioned that too. I think ATL-IST is much more likely.
What the whole US to IST market missing is LAX. TK wanted to do it but doesn't have the range in its fleet yhey should have ordered 345's or 772's with their last order. Anyone starting that route will hit the jackpot. We obviously know it won't be DL.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
It appears very likely that DL will go with sleeper seats, but going 2-1-2 on their 763s is another story. Having sleeper seats replace the current seats would already result in 1 row getting lost, due to the extra pitch needed, and 2-1-2 would yet eliminate even more seats, taking the number of BizE seats down to 20.

Its funny you said that because the F/A said there is not going to be (I dont remember the exact number) anymore there will be 20 seats. I definetly remember that 20 number. I think they have something in the works and we won't have to wait too long to see it.
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milesrich
Posts: 1508
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:25 pm

CVG-IST, you are dreaming. Delta operated ATL-IST a few years ago, and may do so again. I am sure that the yield is much better on that route than many other European destinations.
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:38 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 3):
CVG-IST, you are dreaming.

Actually I'm not, I was only quoting the DL exec. I was really surprised to hear it too.
I think ATL-IST will be announced soon and start the next summer season.
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tommy767
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:39 pm

I'd figure that DL would expand to more international destinations out of CVG, but not IST. We'll see what happens, but I would expect services to Italy or Spain to appear first.

Tommy in EWR/LAX
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:54 pm

Would there be any chance in DL making BusinessElite a product similar to BA's Club World, in which they have pairings of seats, with one seat facing forward and the other backward? This would enable them to stay at 2-2-2, but still be rather comfortable for width and still have them be sleeper seats. I personally think this would be the best way to go, as it doesn't severly effect the number of seats on the plane (yeah, you might lose a row of Y seats, but that's not bad compared to going to a 2-1-2 with sleepers and losing a bunch of Y seats to keep the number of J seats equal).

Jeff
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
Would there be any chance in DL making BusinessElite a product similar to BA's Club World, in which they have pairings of seats, with one seat facing forward and the other backward? This would enable them to stay at 2-2-2, but still be rather comfortable for width and still have them be sleeper seats.

Interesting idea that might be worth a thought, but in this case it would be important to know how popular these seats are. After all, flying backwards is not everyone's favorite, and also, how popular these seats are with airlines. I mean aside from BA, who has these backwards seats? I currently can't think of any other airline, which might be an indication towards its popularity.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 2):
Its funny you said that because the F/A said there is not going to be (I dont remember the exact number) anymore there will be 20 seats. I definetly remember that 20 number. I think they have something in the works and we won't have to wait too long to see it.

At least that wouldn't waste any Y-seats, and DL would be back to the total seat number they had 3 years ago, namely 194 seats total.
Definitely will be interesting how these things will develop.
 
gokmengs
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
Would there be any chance in DL making BusinessElite a product similar to BA's Club World, in which they have pairings of seats, with one seat facing forward and the other backward? This would enable them to stay at 2-2-2, but still be rather comfortable for width and still have them be sleeper seats. I personally think this would be the best way to go, as it doesn't severly effect the number of seats on the plane (yeah, you might lose a row of Y seats, but that's not bad compared to going to a 2-1-2 with sleepers and losing a bunch of Y seats to keep the number of J seats equal).

Not a bad idea but I don't know how popular that set up is?

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
At least that wouldn't waste any Y-seats,

Don't they have more than 20 now(36?)
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nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:48 pm

BA has copyrighted their unique Club World layout - probably the main reason no other airline has copied it!
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 8):
Don't they have more than 20 now(36?)

Actually, Y is 174 seats right now. C, or BusinessElite, currently has 30 seats.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 3):
CVG-IST, you are dreaming. Delta operated ATL-IST a few years ago, and may do so again. I am sure that the yield is much better on that route than many other European destinations.

Actually, this is not so far fetched. There is a large middle-eastern/eastern european ethnic population in the midwest. Detroit/Toledo/Cleveland. CVG would be the closest hub to these populations that are presently unserved with direct flights while avoiding NYC or backtracking to ORD.
 
laca773
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:28 pm

With all of this topic of their BizE product being overhauled/re-vamped, I hope they do it sooner than later. I feel they will be able to retain the majority of their loyal following too.

I know it's been mentioned many times but with the significant expansion of routes at the SLC hub does anyone know or think that the city of SLC would offer incentives for DL to start some transatlantic leg[s]. If not to LGW maybe to one of the SkyTeam hubs??


LACA773
 
gokmengs
Posts: 894
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RE: DL To Start CVG-IST Soon? And Other DL Rumors

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Actually, Y is 174 seats right now. C, or BusinessElite, currently has 30 seats.

Thanks for the info.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 11):
Actually, this is not so far fetched. There is a large middle-eastern/eastern european ethnic population in the midwest. Detroit/Toledo/Cleveland. CVG would be the closest hub to these populations that are presently unserved with direct flights while avoiding NYC or backtracking to ORD.

Good thinking but I still see ATL-IST happening before CVG. But you never know DL stated on wednesday's restructring plan that they would like to increase their 20%intl revenue to mid 30's thats a lot of projected growth any route is possibble.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
With all of this topic of their BizE product being overhauled/re-vamped, I hope they do it sooner than later. I feel they will be able to retain the majority of their loyal following too.

Agree completely. An update that will be a refreshing and better product is and has been needed for a long time now.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
I know it's been mentioned many times but with the significant expansion of routes at the SLC hub does anyone know or think that the city of SLC would offer incentives for DL to start some transatlantic leg[s]. If not to LGW maybe to one of the SkyTeam hubs??

You never know, but I think they can use that hub for asia expansion due to its location, I don't know if its possibble to have profitable ops to major asia destinations with the 767's though?
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