donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:04 pm

The last I remember hearing about its fate was that it was going to close in October '04.However,having come across some very nice shots this morning,it would appear that this didn't happen in the end.Could somebody ,please, tell me the latest with regards to its future.Does it have any chance of surviving as a niche inner-city airport (a la London City, LCY)or its fate sealed?Is the terminal building listed and protected?
Thanks,Alex G.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting Donder10 (Thread starter):


The last I remember hearing about its fate was that it was going to close in October '04.However,having come across some very nice shots this morning,it would appear that this didn't happen in the end

THF is still not closed. In fact, I flew in and out of their this summer when I went to Berlin to study at the Institut fuer Anwaltsrecht. I actually have a shot on my phone of a dba 733 on the vast ramp. That place is a trip

Quoting Donder10 (Thread starter):
Is the terminal building listed and protected?

Yes, but I don't know about the runways (which, BTW, are plenty long enough to be much more than LCY). Personally, I think they should keep it open for short hauls and GA aircraft. Hopefully the dreams of BBI, the white elephant that it is, will not hamper this. Here is to SN for their lawsuit that saved THF
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:30 pm

The whole issue of airports in Berlin is so confusing, I don't really know what's happening anymore. There has been a long debate about building one new and large airport and closing the others. This new airport was supposed to be build outside of Berlin, but somehow it didn't work out. So now SXF is supposed to become the big airport. Right now indeed, SXF is a catastrophe, I don't see how it is supposed to ever become a big airport. The concept for it is not too bad, but getting it done will take forever. Besides, the airport is hard to reach with public transportation or by car.

THF was supposed to be closed by our incompetent mayor. They wanted to turn it into a park. However, some court prohibited the closure and it is still open and working. It has the potential to be some sort of city airport like the one in London, but most people just don't seem to realize its potential.

TXL is supposed to be closed or used for government flights only. But at present, it is working far better than SXF. It has room for expansion, although not too much. I'd like it to remain open, it's just such a great airport.

The airport issue has been going on since the reunification in 1990, and it's just such a mess. All this stupidity, bureaucracy, incompetence, combined with a lack of money is simply annoying.  banghead 
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
SNBru
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:58 pm

I believe, SN Brussels is the largest operator at Tempelhof. They indeed made huge effort to keep it open. Why is it that not other large airlines (LH,BA,...) fly to Tempelhof?
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:46 pm

AFAIK the airport is still open and will remain so until a suitable alternative can be offered. Keeping the unprofessional handling of the BBI planning during the last ten years in mind, this means that the aviation and business community will be blessed with a highly central airport in Berlin for years to come.

Quoting SNBru (Reply 3):
I believe, SN Brussels is the largest operator at Tempelhof. They indeed made huge effort to keep it open. Why is it that not other large airlines (LH,BA,...) fly to Tempelhof?

I am certain that DBA is now the largest airline at THF with eight daily flights from CGN on F-100 and B737.

LH is flying from THF, albeit not mainline, but in the guise of their regional partners. As it seems, the major European national carriers have found it more convenient to base their operations at TXL due to the better state of the facilities and more capacity there. While THF is a huge complex, only a very small portion is being used for passenger flights today. The rest of the vast complex is basically empty and would need extensive refurbishment before it would be possible to use it for commercial flights.

Here's a trip report covering a recent journey to THF with plenty of photos of the airport - you'll agree that it is a fascinating place, but in dire need of updating if its use is to be extended:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/59491
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
TheSonntag
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RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:39 pm

THF is still open, I was there just recently. In fact, Cirrus Airlines is flying its new Embraer 175 into THF now. The Runway is 1800m long, long enough for virtually everything.

It is the best airport in Berlin, beautiful architecture (from a bad period of German history, but nevertheless).

I do not want to involve politics, but if we get a new federal government, this could increase the chances of THF, even though I do not believe that.

THF will remain open at least until 2006, because the Federal German administration court (the Bundesverwaltungsgericht) will deal with the legal issues of BBI.

The stupid government of Berlin wanted to close THF in 2004 by revoking the allowance to keep this airport active. Some users of THF went to court against that decision and won, the Bundesverwaltungsgerichts stated that THF has to stay open until the main decision on BBI will be announced.

The DBA wanted (wants?) to keep Berlin Tempelhof, therefore they moved the flights to and from Cologne/Bonn (so called government shuttle) from TXL to THF, while HLX which is also flying the government shuttle is still flying to TXL.

THF seems to be very popular by the passengers, but initial sales figures were said to be a little bit under expectations, even though this is something which has not really been proven. DBA said they were reconsidering returning to TXL, but as they did not do that yet, you can expect them to stay in THF until spring 2006.

I personally love the airport. You get MUCH faster downtown than you get from SXF, and it is also better than TXL in my opinion. I would hope they kept it open parallel to SXF, but I fear that they will not do that.

And there is one reasons why THF sometimes was losing money: The company running the 3 airports always tried to get people away from Tempelhof, thats why this airport has problems. In reality it is very popular, and it could really be en economic succes.

Michael
 
A342
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
Cirrus Airlines is flying its new Embraer 175

That´s an Embraer 170.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 4):
I am certain that DBA is now the largest airline at THF with eight daily flights from CGN on F-100 and B737.

Add 10x/week MUC with F100 (not on the weekends).
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 5):
You get MUCH faster downtown than you get from SXF, and it is also better than TXL in my opinion.

Of course it is better to both. I took a cab up to Nordbahnhof, that included a stop to change money at Friedrichstrasse and it only cost me 13 Euro. On top of that, THF is still the only airport with real access to rail transport, via Platz der Luftbruecke, while TXL has only busses and SXF's station is something like 2 km away from the airport and you need a shuttle bus to take you there.

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
Add 10x/week MUC with F100 (not on the weekends).

Last I checked, dba had moved all MUC flights to TXL
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:23 am

Thanks for the info,guys.
How many destinations are served from THF?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 8):
Thanks for the info,guys.
How many destinations are served from THF?

The best way in is probably from CGN because dba is cheap and frequent. Pozen in Poland is also served, along with Mannheim (very expensive), Brussels with SN (probably your second best choice, and you get to park under the roof), and there are of course the JU52 tour flights.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 8):

You can also fly from Saarbr�cken, on some days they use a brand new Embraer (Cirrus) I guess its pretty expensive. DBA is comfortable and the fastest way from Cologne to Berlin...

Michael
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Last I checked, dba had moved all MUC flights to TXL

I stand corrected. Why did they end the MUC-THF flights ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: What's Happening With Tempelhof?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 11):
I stand corrected. Why did they end the MUC-THF flights ?

The official version as far as I know is that the THF flights turned out not to be as profitable as they had hoped for. I somewhat doubt that version. It is known that the Airport company of Berlin wants to close THF, so they try to do everything to get people away from THF. Therefore, they offered discounts on airlines that have a certain amount of flights out of TXL. In order to get these discounts, the DBA needs enough flights out of TXL.

But lets wait what happens through the winter. If they gave THF a long perspective, it would absolutely be profitable, I am sure about that. But we will see...

Michael

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