744
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Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:06 pm

Why did AC retire their 742's and 744's so early? Didn't they buy them brand new or were they used/leased a/c's? How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747? Will they ever buy a 747ADV or A380?
Rgds,
744
 
Avianca
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:16 pm

Quoting 744 (Thread starter):
Why did AC retire their 742's and 744's so early?

at least they did only had 3 B744 combies... mostly used for the YUL, YYZ - FRA flights... the fleet was just too small...

Quoting 744 (Thread starter):
How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747

I would say just the same... I traveled 2 years ago on the B74M from FRA to YUL and on the A330 back from YYZ to FRA and it was pritty the same... maybe the A330 a little better.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
777boi
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:11 pm

Do Air Canada still operate any 747's?
 
Avianca
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting 777boi (Reply 2):
Do Air Canada still operate any 747's?

no the last 3 747 were retired 1 year ago...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ACDC8
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:31 pm

I may be mistaken on the numbers, but I believe that AC had at least 6 B744's, 3 of them acquired from CP during the merger in 2000/2001. The B742's were retired becaue they were simply inefficient to operate. As far as the B744's are concerned, they were retired at least once before just after 2001 and then some were re-entered back into service until last year I believe.

Personally, I do prefer flying the B767 or A330/340 over the B747, for me, the B747 was just too crowded. Plus you can't beat the quiet cabin of the Airbus.

I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
intothinair
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:55 pm

Very interesting. For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?

Cheers, Konstantin G.
 
patroni
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5):
For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333

I think the 333 offers even more seats than the 747Combi. During winter, AC operated 1 daily 333 YUL-FRA, in summer, frequencies were doubled, but equipment downgraded to 767.
 
Avianca
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RE: Air Canada 747

Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5):
Very interesting. For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?



Quoting Patroni (Reply 6):
I think the 333 offers even more seats than the 747Combi. During winter, AC operated 1 daily 333 YUL-FRA, in summer, frequencies were doubled, but equipment downgraded to 767.

yes and regarding the cargo capazity, they have installed several weekly freighter flights with DC10 and MD11...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
I may be mistaken on the numbers, but I believe that AC had at least 6 B744's, 3 of them acquired from CP during the merger in 2000/2001. The B742's were retired becaue they were simply inefficient to operate. As far as the B744's are concerned, they were retired at least once before just after 2001 and then some were re-entered back into service until last year I believe.

AC acquired 4 744s from CP. They were used for a short time, but then retired. They now fly for AR. AC's 744C were always in use by the airline. They were retired from service last October. Many A.netters including myself were on the aircraft's last domestic service flight from YUL-YYZ.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.

Do yourself a favour and don't put your money on AC buying 747adv in the future. AC needs aircraft that hold 300-350 seats. The 747 is simply too large for AC's needs, now and likely in the future. Besides, AC's order for 777s (it will be re-ordered), was meant to rationalize its long-haul fleet. The 773 is plenty big for AC.
 
MarshalN
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
Personally, I do prefer flying the B767 or A330/340 over the B747, for me, the B747 was just too crowded. Plus you can't beat the quiet cabin of the Airbus.

In the heyday of the YYZ/YVR-HKG route, I think the 744 was the only thing they used to fly that route -- indeed the only thing capable of flying that route. 767 can't fly that, and in those days I don't think they got their A340 yet. It was always packed, and since the flight times are pretty restricted, it really only made sense to use a 744.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
at least they did only had 3 B744 combies... mostly used for the YUL, YYZ - FRA flights... the fleet was just too small...

They had 7 744s at one point

Quoting 744 (Thread starter):
YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747?

I would say it is pretty much impossible to fly YYZ-DEL non-stop on the 767

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 4):
I doubt that AC will be acquiring any B747ADV or A380 anytime soon. However, that could change in time and I'd put my money on the B747ADV.

Neither, AC wants to go with 777s

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 5):
For the flights to FRA that used to be operated by B747-400's, are they flying AC aircraft more frequently to FRA now, as the 747 holds more people than the 767, and the A333, or have they just put an A333 to the route that used to be operated by A 747, without adding extra frequencies?

The 74E had about 150-200 fewer seats than a normal 744, but a whole lot of cargo capacity

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
yes and regarding the cargo capazity, they have installed several weekly freighter flights with DC10 and MD11...

Must be wet leased
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting 744 (Thread starter):
How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747

The same, in more convenient, no double excuse-me, shorter boarding lines and baggage claim wait.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
would say it is pretty much impossible to fly YYZ-DEL non-stop on the 767

Which is why they fly a 343 on that route!

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 9):
In the heyday of the YYZ/YVR-HKG route, I think the 744 was the only thing they used to fly that route -- indeed the only thing capable of flying that route. 767 can't fly that, and in those days I don't think they got their A340 yet.

And now it's split between YVR-HKG and YYZ-HKG non-stop, which means even less need for a 747.
When I doubt... go running!
 
MarshalN
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 11):
Quoting 744 (Thread starter):
How is long hual flight for e.g. YYZ-TLV, YYZ-DEL on 767 in comparision to a 747

The same, in more convenient, no double excuse-me, shorter boarding lines and baggage claim wait.

Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ? I was under the impression that that's slightly beyond range.... maybe I'm wrong.
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:27 am

I thought El Al did that route.
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:29 am

AC's B747 Combies, as all Combies had re-enforced airframe, floor and bulkhead between the cargo and pax sections. The heavy B747 had a higher then type normal fuel burn, therefore not economically sound for AC. Milton did say he loved the B747, they where his favorite aircraft but didn't meet AC's needs. I believe along side the A333/340 and B767 flights to LHR , FRA, AC leases an MD-11 for cargo capacity to FRA.

Krisyyz



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[Edited 2005-09-19 03:32:01]
 
md90fan
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:30 am

I though some of AC's 744 went to TLV for SF conversion by IAI.  Confused
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12):
Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ? I was under the impression that that's slightly beyond range.... maybe I'm wrong.

I THINK AC has already done that, with a 763ER. Maybe they still fly that route. If they do, it's certain it's not with a 343.
When I doubt... go running!
 
AC777LR
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:50 am

Yes YYZ to TLV is still a 767-333ER, and it does it every day.
Member since April 2000
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:56 am

MD90fan,

I think C-GAGN and C-GAGL were indeed sent there for full freighter conversion in Israel, only not for AC; for another operator that has taken them up.

C-GAGM is now VT-AIM with Air India.
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Not sure about the whereabouts of GAGL and GAGN.

TLV has almost always been operated with 763's, unless there's an IROP.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:28 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12):
Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ? I was under the impression that that's slightly beyond range.... maybe I'm wrong.



Quoting AC777LR (Reply 17):
Yes YYZ to TLV is still a 767-333ER, and it does it every day.

It is a 763ER now though it has been a 762ER as well as a 772ER and a 744 as well
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Vasu
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:28 pm

Quoting Cessnapimp (Reply 18):
Not sure about the whereabouts of GAGL and GAGN.

I flew GAGN in 2000 (even got to sit briefly in the copilot's seat somewhere over the Atlantic! Any news on its whereabouts would be much appreciated!
 
cgagn
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:38 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 20):
I flew GAGN in 2000 (even got to sit briefly in the copilot's seat somewhere over the Atlantic! Any news on its whereabouts would be much appreciated!

I'd like to know too!. My username should speak for itself!

C-GAGN
Widebodies flown on:A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER,787-9
 
planesailing
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 20):
I flew GAGN in 2000 (even got to sit briefly in the copilot's seat somewhere over the Atlantic! Any news on its whereabouts would be much appreciated!

25075 868 Boeing 747-433(SF) N575GP Honeywell International 01.06.2005 Active N6009F, C-GAGN
 
ACDC8
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8):
AC acquired 4 744s from CP

Was it 4? I thought it was only 3. Thanks!

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8):
Do yourself a favour and don't put your money on AC buying 747adv in the future. AC needs aircraft that hold 300-350 seats. The 747 is simply too large for AC's needs, now and likely in the future. Besides, AC's order for 777s (it will be re-ordered), was meant to rationalize its long-haul fleet. The 773 is plenty big for AC.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Neither, AC wants to go with 777s

I never said that they were interested in them. I said that some time in the future it could change, and if their needs were to change I would put my money on the B747ADV.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
planesailing
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:32 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 23):
Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 8):
AC acquired 4 744s from CP

Was it 4? I thought it was only 3. Thanks!

3 -475's and 1 -4F6.

C-GMWW Boeing 747-475 24883 823 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Stored, last with 24883 LLC N6018N N987PG
C-FCRA Boeing 747-475 24895 837 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Aerolineas Argentinas N895NC, LV-AXF
C-GAGL Boeing 747-433(M) 24998 840 Air Canada 04.06.1991 Stored, last with WFBN Wells Fargo Bank Northwest N6018N N998GP
C-GAGM Boeing 747-433(M) 25074 862 Air Canada 16.07.1991 Active with Air India N770PC, VT-AIM
C-GAGN Boeing 747-433(M) 25075 868 Air Canada 30.08.1991 Active with Honeywell International N6009F N575GP
C-FBCA Boeing 747-475 25422 912 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Aerolineas Argentinas N971PG, LV-ALJ
C-FGHZ Boeing 747-4F6 27827 1038 Air Canada 29.03.2001 Active with Philippine Airlines N6055X RP-C8168
 
accargo
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RE: Air Canada 747

Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:49 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
It is a 763ER now though it has been a 762ER as well as a 772ER and a 744 as well

AC operates daily YYZ-TLV using 767-300 equipment. It has not used a 762ER, nor a 744 on that route to the best of my knowledge, and it has no 772ER's so it has never flown it using that acft.
 
cayman
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:09 am

I think he was referring to El Al which has defly used 763 772 and 744 into YYZ at different times--cheers---
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 23):
I never said that they were interested in them. I said that some time in the future it could change, and if their needs were to change I would put my money on the B747ADV.

Agreed. But trust me....It will not happen...  Wink
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:43 am

The only scenario that I can see justifying a 400-500 seat plane at AC would be if the Canada-China and Canada-India markets both go through the roof and there is enough year-round traffic to justify a fleet of at least 12 747s. But that's pretty futuristic and by the time that happens there may be no such thing as a new 747.
 
accargo
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting Cayman (Reply 26):
I think he was referring to El Al which has defly used 763 772 and 744 into YYZ at different times--cheers---

My mistake, I thought we were discussing AC, I didn't see any mention of
EL AL.  Silly


 Smile Cheers.
 
ktachiya
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12):
Can ANY 767 reach TLV from YYZ?

Just some interesting information. I just can't believe that AC puts their B767-300ER on their YYZ-NRT runs. I thought that was pushing the range of the aircrafts but some people told me that it wasn't.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 24):
C-GAGN Boeing 747-433(M) 25075 868 Air Canada 30.08.1991 Active with Honeywell International N6009F N575GP

Honeywell owns a 747?!?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
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Vasu
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 31):
Honeywell owns a 747?!?

Must be some kind of flying test bed, right?
 
TPASXM787
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:33 am

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 24):
C-GAGL Boeing 747-433(M) 24998 840 Air Canada 04.06.1991 Stored, last with WFBN Wells Fargo Bank Northwest N6018N N998GP

Score! My company owns a 744! Hmmm...stored...we need to get that baby out and flying!
This is the Last Stop.
 
Avianca
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
They had 7 744s at one point

at one point but not the last year... they had just 3 ones... only used for the YYZ-FRA-YYZ and YUL-FRA-FRA route + sometime YYZ-LHR-YYZ.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 14):
AC leases an MD-11 for cargo capacity to FRA.

MD-11 and DC-10 freighters.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 32):
Must be some kind of flying test bed, right?

Probably. Where can one find this information you guys are posting about who owns what planes? Can you query and say like "show me all planes Honeywell owns"?
But that was when I ruled the world
 
accargo
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 34):
MD-11 and DC-10 freighters.

AC wet-leases both MD-11's and DC-10's (preference to MD-11 when available) to operate freighter routes to PVG, FRA, LAX, MEX from YYZ.
 
Avianca
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Accargo (Reply 36):
AC wet-leases both MD-11's and DC-10's (preference to MD-11 when available) to operate freighter routes to PVG, FRA, LAX, MEX from YYZ.

currently they have 1 weekly MD11 flight and 4 DC10 flights to FRA.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
planesailing
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RE: Air Canada 747

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 35):
Probably. Where can one find this information you guys are posting about who owns what planes? Can you query and say like "show me all planes Honeywell owns"?

http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Honeywell_International

Honeywell used only one 744, reg N575GP. It is owned by WFBN Wells Fargo Bank Northwest.

Found this from Cactus Wings:

Ex-Air Canada B747-400 N575GP [25075, ex C-GAGN] was ferried from Victorville to Shannon on 09Aug-2005 after serving over two months at Edwards Air Force Base. The aircraft served as a testbed for a new carbon brake system.

From pprune:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...cd&threadid=163856&goto=nextoldest

Apparently now in Tel Aviv undergoing cargo conversion.