cltguy
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SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:42 pm

Mike Boyd has started up the SWA coming to CLT rumor mill again. This time he speculates that they will use their excess MSY capacity to start service from CLT to PHX and LAS among other cities. This all sounds great and dandy, but my question is where would SWA go in CLT? Concourse A is full, Concourse B is full, Concourse C is full, Concourse E is full. That leaves the international Concourse D...which has a few available gates. Would SWA operate out of D?
 
stlgph
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:49 pm

No, Southwest is too busy planning their new service to Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Memphis.
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Aggieflyboi04
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:52 pm

Aren't all the gates in CLT still occupied? The last open gate I heard about wask taken up by airtran.
 
luv2fly
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:55 pm

Myself I think we will see them in CVG first.
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chrisnh
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:58 pm

I dunno. Coming on the heels of start-ups at PHL and PIT--USAirways' strongholds--one could reasonably conclude that CLT is coming soon, if not next. I don't know about ATL, CVG and MEM, except to say that the first two are obviously aimed at toppling a weakened DL, while MEM is designed to topple a weakened NW.

Southwest's fortunes grow in lockstep with vanquishing their competition. That's why they went to PHL and PIT, and why I agree that CLT is in the mix. Indeed, Southwest has had a tough road to hoe at PHL, with delays et al. So would they go to another incumbent fortress like ATL...which would yield delays much like PHL has? I'm not too keen on that one. I could see DL defenders at ATL making things REAL difficult for Southwest. Like making a Southwest jet wait on a taxiway while a parade of Delta jets are allowed to pass. Stuff like that.

Chris in NH
 
quickmover
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:06 am

They might have excess planes now because of MSY, but the Boeing strike has stopped all 737 deliverys for now. I think they will wait until deliveries resume.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting Cltguy (Thread starter):
Concourse E is full.

Concourse E is entirely common-use. However, the lack of jetways and parking areas than can handle a 737 is likely an issue.

Quoting Cltguy (Thread starter):
That leaves the international Concourse D...which has a few available gates.

Most of the concourse is common-use. However, with those gates being international gates, I find it difficult to believe that Southwest would be willing to pay the higher fees that come with that real estate.
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LUVRSW
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:26 am

Who is Mike Boyd? Thanks.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 7):
Who is Mike Boyd? Thanks.

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LUV4JFK
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 1):
No, Southwest is too busy planning their new service to Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

How could you forget Minneapolis?  wink 

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PHLBOS
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:11 am

FL already started serving CLT with non-stop routes to ATL, BWI, & MCO right around the same time WN started PIT service as a means to beat them to the punch at CLT so to speak.

Hmmmm, if there's any truth to WN coming to CLT; this could prove interesting.  scratchchin 
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luv2fly
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:35 am

When WN announced PIT as a new destination it was already down sized by US at that point. I really think CVG will be the next city that gets WN. DL is weaker right now then NW, and if WN would go into either MSP or MEM, MSP would be the first choice.
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OPNLguy
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
They might have excess planes now because of MSY, but the Boeing strike has stopped all 737 deliverys for now. I think they will wait until deliveries resume.

SWA has 7 more 737-700 deliveries in the 2005 pipeline, about half of the 14-16 aircraft that Boyd's article suggests have been freed-up by the pulldown in MSY services.

While I don't pesonally doubt that CLT will become an -eventual- SWA destination, I'm not sure about Boyd's timing. Yes, the addition of CLT wouldn't be especially great for HP/US, but "what if" the Boeing strike drags on into 2006 -and- demand at MSY picks up much sooner than anticipated? If CLT has already been started, the potential for then being a tad short on resources is certainly there.

My guess? SWA will keep its finger firmly on the pulse on what's going on at Boeing, and take any action on a new city when it feels it appropriate.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
A330323X
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
I'm not sure about Boyd's timing.

His idea is that if he repeats it every two months, eventually he'll be right.  Silly
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OPNLguy
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 13):
His idea is that if he repeats it every two months, eventually he'll be right.

By jove, I think you're on to something here... I mean, even a broken watch is correct twice a day...  Smile
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
uncgso
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:47 am

no...WN will start service to GSO then pull out and go to CLT....

ala FL....
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:53 am

I don't see CLT in the mix either right now.

Seems like to me that with the combined US/HP, US assets are less attractive to WN.

For example, east bound LAS/PHX to CLT. WN won't be able to penetrate US's higher yield small and mid-size destinations like ROA, CHS or AVL. So US/HP will always have a slight yield advantage.

As far as CLT O&D, well, CLT is a banking town, US serves LGA, DCA and SFO (B of A's other HQ). WN doesn't. That doesn't rule out CLTas a good money maker for SWA, they carry their own inertia where ever they go. But the MSY factor is just temporary.

[Edited 2005-09-19 19:56:53]
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FLAIRPORT
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
They might have excess planes now because of MSY, but the Boeing strike has stopped all 737 deliverys for now. I think they will wait until deliveries resume.

I do personally believe that WN is focused on restarting MSY and, afterwards, and after the Boeing strike, will continue to grow and start cities like CLT.
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Tornado82
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 4):
Southwest's fortunes grow in lockstep with vanquishing their competition. That's why they went to PHL and PIT, and why I agree that CLT is in the mix.



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
When WN announced PIT as a new destination it was already down sized by US at that point

WN was going after what at the time (even at the time of PIT announcement) was viewed industry-wide as a weak and vulnerable US. People were filling this board with posts about how many flights WN would run out of both PHL and PIT when US died. Well, US is probably one of the better-off legacies now and aren't going anywhere... I doubt WN wants to bang heads with them in what amounts to their fortress when WN won't be able to do any of that Caribbean stuff that US already does.
 
stlgph
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 9):
How could you forget Minneapolis?

Eh, I thought about it. But it wouldn't have mattered. Luv2Fly would have just commented the same way: "WN will serve CVG first."
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ScottB
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
Well, US is probably one of the better-off legacies now and aren't going anywhere... I doubt WN wants to bang heads with them in what amounts to their fortress when WN won't be able to do any of that Caribbean stuff that US already does.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that US is one of the "better-off" legacies. While the merger will bring in desperately-needed liquidity for both carriers (America West faced a liquidity crunch of its own had the merger not happened), the combined airline will also be sitting on roughly $8 billion in debt and liabilities. The outstanding ATSB-backed loans are not going away, and the "new" US Airways will be more dependent than ever on high-cost RJ feed.

With the US Airways side of the operation shedding roughly 40 mainline jets between the end of August 2005 and February 2006, there is plenty of room for expansion by competitors -- and that doesn't only mean Southwest. I'm not exactly sure I see why people think that Southwest would shy from competition with a "new" US Airways run by AWA's management team; Southwest's two largest cities are AWA's two hubs and WN actually has the largest share of O&D traffic at both PHX and LAS.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:42 pm

I would put my money on CVG or MEM before CLT, there's MSP too. It might be better for WN to put leftover MSY capacity in markets that already exist and demand more capacity such as LAS and continue on their original expansion plans.
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iowaman
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 21):
would put my money on CVG or MEM before CLT, there's MSP too.

Most definently, CVG and MEM are both secondary hubs for DL and NW, and both have extremely high fares and not many delays when there is bad weather (ATL).
 
Cubsrule
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 21):
I would put my money on CVG or MEM before CLT, there's MSP too.

Does MEM have free gates? Seems like NW has a lot of (unnecessary) real estate tied up, but can the airport get some of it?
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loisencroach
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:15 pm

Speaking of Mike Boyd, does anybody have a link to the article where Mike Boyd said that Hooters Air would never work? I wish I had saved that...he stated something to the effect that the average Hooters Restaurant patron are males 18-35 and aren't travel savvy.

If anybody knows where I can find that article, I'd appreciate it.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:18 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
Does MEM have free gates? Seems like NW has a lot of (unnecessary) real estate tied up, but can the airport get some of it?

Northwest needs each and every one of the gates they have. They have three "banks" a day, which ejmmsu (and others) often refer to as breakfast, lunch, and dinner, due to the fact that the banks come in during those times of day, and the only flights that are flown into and out of Memphis by Northwest on an extra-bank basis are the flights to and from Minneapolis and Detroit.
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stirling
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:24 pm

I would think WN would bolster existing city frequencies and destinations before undertaking expensive station builds.

I was actually thinking they'd fortify their biggies, LAS, PHX, HOU, and MDW, plus add some new markets from PHL...nice way to spread around some aircraft, and then once new-builds start trickling in, they can rebuild MSY as necessary.

Besides, the filings of NW and DL are barely a week old....we really do not know the extent of what is going to happen, not even WN.
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iowaman
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 26):
I was actually thinking they'd fortify their biggies, LAS, PHX, HOU, and MDW, plus add some new markets from PHL...nice way to spread around some aircraft, and then once new-builds start trickling in, they can rebuild MSY as necessary.

Quite honestly how many more flights can PHL handle? The delays are ridiculous. LAS is getting the same way.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 26):
I would think WN would bolster existing city frequencies and destinations before undertaking expensive station builds.

Just announced that service additions to PIT and PHL planned for later this fall have been moved up for start on October 2nd. New service PIT-TPA and PIT-PHX, and additions to other PIT and PHL frequencies...all due to freed-up aircraft time due Katrina pulldowns at MSY...

[Edited 2005-09-20 16:45:27]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Tornado82
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 27):
Quite honestly how many more flights can PHL handle? The delays are ridiculous.

Depends on the time. If you're taking off out of there around 7pm, just forget about it. But by 9pm it's not too bad. For going to PHX or something that wouldn't be a bad time since the time zones are on your side. With US Re-banking their hub it shouldn't be extremely hard to find the holes in the schedule... the only thing is if one bank gets delayed an hour, the whole works will be F-ed up once again.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:59 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 25):
Northwest needs each and every one of the gates they have. They have three "banks" a day,

The point is that their utilization sucks... but banks are a good way to justify leasing a lot of gates. (I'm usually going to or from ORD, so typically I miss the banks).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Flaps
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:17 am

The cases for both CVG and CLT are well stated several times above. WN has posted many surprises with recent expansions. I suspect that they may want to complete their surrounding of US before they move on to tackling either DL or NW. Right now they are filling just about everything they pour into PIT and PHL. CLT would seem to fit nicely into that package followed by CVG. CVG models closely the situation at PIT right before WN's entrance. CLT somewhat less so the situation at PHL.
 
Tornado82
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 31):
CVG models closely the situation at PIT right before WN's entrance.

You're kidding, right? CVG is about 3 years behind the situation at PIT before WN's entrance. They've still got widebodies, international, and a ton more flights than PIT did when WN came (Yeah, before A330323X comes, I know PIT had that 767 hopping over from PHL). CVG isn't even at the position PIT was when people like FlyI and Hooters came to town (the beginning of the end.. dehubbing.. etc), let alone WN who came in after much of the dust had already settled.

WN's march to PIT was a hope of a total collapse of US.
 
stlgph
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 20):
With the US Airways side of the operation shedding roughly 40 mainline jets between the end of August 2005 and February 2006, there is plenty of room for expansion by competitors -- and that doesn't only mean Southwest.

Not exactly, no.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
You're kidding, right? CVG is about 3 years behind the situation at PIT before WN's entrance.

More than 3 years at that.

If CVG was desperately seeking susan here, then the Vanguard model a few years ago from Cincinnati into Chicago Midway would have been a runaway success.
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vegasplanes
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 27):
Quite honestly how many more flights can PHL handle? The delays are ridiculous. LAS is getting the same way.

LAS is not too bad, pretty steady action throughout the day from 6:30-7:00 am to 10:30-11:00 pm. Most problems at LAS occur do to the monsoon season in summer, shifting winds create havoc on the groud, once had two runway changes before we finally took off. Also ground construction for the last few years, adding to D gates, re-doing A gates, B gates, taxiways, has not helped. Also WN expanding at LAS to the point where they now have 2 gates in B, previously the C gates was all WN, now have TZ in C. I am not including the 1 daily flight Aloha used to operate to HNL out of C.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:15 am

How about WN adding in DTW, new terminal coming to replace Smith, maybe leave the Smith for extra capacity, NW in BK, could fill some leisure flights to FLA, LAS, SAN, LAX, possible bus. flights to BWI, nix FLYI Dulles flights, PHL, ISP. Just an idea, I believe that I saw on some post somewhere on A.Net that DTW and CLE were some of WN's worst performing cities.
 
Flaps
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:57 pm

Actually, no, I'm not kidding. CVG suffers from even less competition than PIT had before the US downsizing began. Therefore, imho, it is an even riper target than PIT was.
 
dolphinflyer
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:52 pm

I've often wondered if GSP might be a more interesting market for WN to tap than CLT. However, having said that, GSP doesn't have the large local population that WN usually gravitates toward. Your thoughts?
 
PHLBOS
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RE: SWA Starting Service To CLT?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 35):
How about WN adding in DTW, new terminal coming to replace Smith, maybe leave the Smith for extra capacity, NW in BK, could fill some leisure flights to FLA, LAS, SAN, LAX

NK (which also has a hub in DTW) serves many of those destinations you listed. Although being a much smaller carrier than WN, I believe NK will be the first carrier to take avantage of any service expansion in response to any NW cutbacks at DTW.
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