flyinghippo
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:32 am

With reports of 787 has exceeded 800 orders already, it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane, with lots of airlines ordering 787-3/8s.

So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787? (Please do not financial reasons for not ordering 787...)

A couple of airlines I could think of is IB, QR and EK (unless there is a 787-10)
Others: VS - Don't see a need for it
CI/BR - ditto, unless there is 787-10 to replace their 330s down the road.
FJ/Air Tahiti Nui: They like 4 engines because of their hub locations
And some South American airlines?

Your thoughts?

[Edited 2005-09-19 21:55:12]
 
Glom
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:35 am

I don't know about 800 orders. I think that figure was a misprint in that one article.
 
NYC777
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:37 am

TAP - they and Airus are joined at the hip.
IB - ditto
any LCCs
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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STT757
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787?

The one's that go out of business before it's launched.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AA787
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:38 am

FlyI, just dont see it.

AA787
ET In NYC
 
flyinghippo
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting AA787 (Reply 4):
FlyI, just dont see it.

Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787... Which means it will exclude WN, B6, FlyI... (Althought I wouldn't be surprised if WN orders the -3 down the road)
 
N1120A
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
CI/BR - ditto, unless there is 787-10 to replace their 330s down the road.

BR, with their heavy cargo ops, would be able to put any sized 787 to good use. Also, considering the range conditions for Taiwan-US flights, the 787 is definately a good idea to open up thinner routes as well as a seasonal sub.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
FJ/Air Tahiti Nui: They like 4 engines because of their hub locations

FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
And some South American airlines?

RG, TAM, and LAN all use widebodied twins and that is likely to continue. Also, given LAN's major cargo operation, the 788 would be an excellent aircraft with the range to connect to many gateways in the US and Europe
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Scorpio
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane,

How's that? It hasn't even flown yet.
 
lazyshaun
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:47 am

Qantas?

I agree with you on IB, it is highly unlikely to see a Boeing order from that airline.

I wouldn't imagine AF or LH, although never say never.
I only presume they would go with the A350 if they needed an a/c in that range. LH haven't ordered any "new" Boeing jets for a long while, and the fact that they Have a healthy fleet of 330's, 340, it seems they preffer Airbus jets.
Same assumption with AF; vast Airbus fleet, unlikely to order any 737s as they are phasing out their current 733/5s. Although they have recently ordered 777s, their 747 fleet, especially the older types, are not likely to stay for too many more years.

Out of the two airlines, I think AF are more likely to order it, but I don't think they will.
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
flyinghippo
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Thanks for this info, didn't know that!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
BR, with their heavy cargo ops, would be able to put any sized 787 to good use. Also, considering the range conditions for Taiwan-US flights, the 787 is definately a good idea to open up thinner routes as well as a seasonal sub.

How would their heavy cargo operation make them want to order 787?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
How's that? It hasn't even flown yet.

With 800+ orders before the plane is even flown, it's pretty safe to say that this airplane will have a bright future. But, I could be wrong.
 
stirling
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:04 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
FJ operates 2 engine aircraft all the time, including a 738 that goes NAN-HNL-YVR. There was talk of them getting a couple A332s to replace their 767s, but no mention has been made since. The 787 would be an ideal aircraft for them to open up thinner, longer routes.

Yes, they have a coupla' different flavors of the 737...700 and 800.
But as for the 787, I don't think they'll get'em new...look towards 2015-2020.

South America? I can't think of a single carrier that WILL buy it.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
RG, TAM, and LAN all use widebodied twins and that is likely to continue.

I don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.
Good thing is, things change..
RG could use it; but can they afford it?

Quoting Glom (Reply 1):
I don't know about 800 orders

?????
I think they are forecasting 800 orders by the time it enters service...
or,
They meant orders for the "800" version, because the 787 does not have those orders yet, not even close!
Delete this User
 
Glom
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787...

You mean which long haul airlines won't because EasyJet and Ryanair fly international routes with narrowbodies.
 
N60659
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
I think they are forecasting 800 orders by the time it enters service...

The figure of 850 includes announced firm orders, options and purchase rights in addition to other on-going sales campaigns:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...ng+studies+787+double-stretch.html

"Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a month rolling out of the Everett site by 2011. The current plan would see the rate peak at seven a month by mid-2009. The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850 ."

-N60659
Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
 
ZKOJH
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:01 am

I'd say BMI (BD) as they want to have an all airbus fleet , and more into the A330's on their longhaul runs, then looking at boeing aircraft,
Vietnam time..
 
Arcano
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.

Remember that LA is still some of the largest operators of the 767 (11th I think) and they just bought some new ones.

And after buying more 767s and keep delaying the rest of the 340 deliveries, I think LAN is seriously doubting about transforming their wide body fleet to all airbus, but who knows...

Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
Danny
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
With 800+ orders before the plane is even flown, it's pretty safe to say that this airplane will have a bright future. But, I could be wrong.

There are no 800 orders for 787. Stop repeating this false info.
 
Blackhawk144
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787?



Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 5):
Quoting AA787 (Reply 4):
FlyI, just dont see it.

Let me ask again... Which INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES won't order the 787... Which means it will exclude WN, B6, FlyI... (Althought I wouldn't be surprised if WN orders the -3 down the road)

International to whom? You? Be a little more specific than "International". Someone from the UK could've easily suggested this, and you would've pounded them for being "local", but the US to them is international.

You shouldn't say International.

Anthony
Time is the best of all teachers. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students!
 
vv701
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 8):
I agree with you on IB, it is highly unlikely to see a Boeing order from that airline

Unless, of course, BA buys IB!
 
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ER757
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:03 am

Doubt you'll see any in these airlines' fleets
Etihad
Iran Air
South African
Aeroflot
US Air
Air Jamaica
 
afay1
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:32 am

Aeroflot's board is already discussing whether or not to buy the 787. Boeing has a major design center in Moscow....
 
kulatict
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:26 am

US/HP... for as long as they still owes Airbus 250mil
 
Slarty
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 12):
"Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a month rolling out of the Everett site by 2011. The current plan would see the rate peak at seven a month by mid-2009. The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850 ."

Wow. With the price of oil going exponential, flying newer AB or BA aircraft could be the difference between failure and success. I expect the sales of most new aircraft to go through the roof over the next 2 years.
 
supa7E7
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:03 am

Yes, the high oil prices are

GREAT GREAT!!

for Boeing.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
SNATH
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 8):
I wouldn't imagine AF or LH, although never say never.

Actually, the B787-3 will be a good replacement for LH's A300s. LH are not in a hurrry to replace them, apparently. However, they will have to start looking for a replacement in a few years. And, the B787-3 is with a chance, unless they decide to use a fleet of smaller jets in order to increase frequency.

Regards,

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
RCS763AV
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
South America? I can't think of a single carrier that WILL buy it.

LA, RG, AV.........

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
I don't know, as I see it, JJ, RG, and LA will likely keep it in the Airbus family.

RG is all boeing......dude why airbus they have never bought airbus and love boeing as AV also do.
 
irelayer
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:59 pm

What the heck is the point of this thread? Where do people get 800 from? 787 orders aren't even in the 400 range yet. Seriously, there is idle speculation and then there are topics such as this "who WON'T order". I am a Boeing fan myself but to me this topic was created to incite an AvB flame war. Pathetic.

-IR
 
stirling
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:10 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24):
dude why airbus they have never bought airbus and love boeing as AV also do

Don't know why I included RG in the list when I mostly meant JJ, and to a lesser degree LA.
I meant to mention RG as not ordering the 787, but for financial considerations; I'm very aware of their Boeing fleet. Case of happy fingers getting away from the brain.
Delete this User
 
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PipoA380
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:45 pm

Swiss. All airbus fleet (except their jumbolinos...) so I would be VERY amazed if they were to order the 787  wave  Philippe
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
FlySSC
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:08 pm

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
With reports of 787 has exceeded 800 orders already

800 ??? I would love to have confirmation of that figure with the real list of all the customers ....

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane

How possible ? It hasn't flown yet !!! It has not even been built completely yet !

 sarcastic 
 
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glideslope
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:52 pm

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
With reports of 787 has exceeded 800 orders already, it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane, with lots of airlines ordering 787-3/8s.

So, which international airlines will NOT order the 787? (Please do not financial reasons for not ordering 787...)

A couple of airlines I could think of is IB, QR and EK (unless there is a 787-10)
Others: VS - Don't see a need for it
CI/BR - ditto, unless there is 787-10 to replace their 330s down the road.
FJ/Air Tahiti Nui: They like 4 engines because of their hub locations
And some South American airlines?

Your thoughts?

I'd say when all is said and done you are looking at 2-3 airlines!  Big grin
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Shenzhen
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:59 pm

Just list the airlines that purchased or will purchase the A350.

Cheers
 
FlySSC
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 30):
Just list the airlines that purchased or will purchase the A350.

Why ??? Just like some airlines are operating both the A340 & B777, I am sure there will be some airlines to operate in the future both the A350 & B787.

That could be for sure the kind of subject for a future Topic :

"Which airline will order both the A350 & the B787 ?" ...

 stirthepot   banghead 
 
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garpd
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 28):
800 ??? I would love to have confirmation of that figure with the real list of all the customers ....

The 800 figures comes from an article with cites the that number is a collection of firm orders, commitments and airlines with LOIs.

There was no list of who has what on paper.
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Maersk737
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:02 pm

Quoting GARPD (Reply 32):
The 800 figures comes from an article with cites the that number is a collection of firm orders, commitments and airlines with LOIs.

There was no list of who has what on paper

Well then, why don't we just say 1000 ?  Wink

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
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garpd
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:04 pm

Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 33):
Well then, why don't we just say 1000 ? Wink

Cheers

Peter

Because the article said 800.  Wink back at ya
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Maersk737
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:08 pm

Quoting GARPD (Reply 34):
Because the article said 800. back at ya

Well, we must be able to find an article that says 200 ? Then it all adds up  Wink

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
eha
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting GARPD (Reply 34):
Because the article said 800. back at ya

I would rather think 800 represent the number of possible orders including current open sales proposals.

E.
 
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garpd
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:23 pm

Quoting Eha (Reply 36):

I would rather think 800 represent the number of possible orders including current open sales proposals.

Thats what I was trying to say
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ourboeing
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:30 pm

Let me put it this way, I don't see any airline with purely Airbus or Boeing fleet. They will order the 787 and they will order the A350. And the A380 and the 747 and all the others. Now, some types may survive and some won't. Boeing has had some failures and so did Airbus. So, whether it is AF, LH or United, they will buy and they will buy them all. Thats how it has always been Smile

Cheers..

OURBOEING
 
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USAF336TFS
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:45 pm

We should never assume that any airline will NEVER buy any aircraft. History has proven that false, many times. I agree that there are some airlines less likely to order the 787, but I would not count out any of them, especially if the 787 proves to exceed it's reported performance gains.
And I'm sure we'll see some surprises when those UFOs are finally revealed.

Regards,
Sal
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
Jet-lagged
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 30):
Just list the airlines that purchased or will purchase the A350.

That is a telling exercise.

Here is another one. Take the current order logs for A350 and B787, and remove the top two customers- Qatar and ALAFCO for A, and ANA and JAL for B. Consider what is left for total orders for each airframe, and number and breadth of unique customers.

Now, what does that tell us?

Cheers!

[Edited 2005-09-20 17:27:16]
 
s.p.a.s.
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24):
RG is all boeing......dude why airbus they have never bought airbus and love boeing as AV also do.

Errr, never is a bit harsh, mate. Once upon a long time ago Varig operated four A300B4s, two as Varig and two with Cruzeiro do Sul livery. Indeed they did not operate very long and were phased out in the late 80s/early 90s IIRC.

On the 787, I see Varig as the only airline in Brazil that could have it, off course not in the near future. According to the latest plan, they want to reduce fleet type to 3, 737NG/757(or 767)/777. The 787 could replace the 757/767 combo in a few years. Varig will not be among the first airlines to operate it, but (and providing they are still around) the 787 would be a nice fit on their network.

Saludos

Salz

[Edited 2005-09-20 17:14:51]

[Edited 2005-09-20 17:15:29]
"ad astra per aspera"
 
flyinghippo
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 25):
What the heck is the point of this thread? Where do people get 800 from? 787 orders aren't even in the 400 range yet. Seriously, there is idle speculation and then there are topics such as this "who WON'T order". I am a Boeing fan myself but to me this topic was created to incite an AvB flame war. Pathetic.

-IR

While I respect your opion, I do not think this is a thread to start a A vs B war, that's certainly not my intention. You can search all of the posts I have had in this forum to see if I have ever started a childish A v B war we see sometimes. 41 replies so far, and this has been a pretty healthy discussion on why certain airlines wouldn't need a 787 in their fleet. IMO, this is a valid discussion thread and is no way "Pathetic". Maybe you could make some positive contributions to this discussion and tell us your opinion why wouldn't an international airline would not need a 787.

The 800 orders are from the Flight International article which other members have provided in this thread. Perhapse I should've worded it better... "The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850"

Quoting Glom (Reply 11):
You mean which long haul airlines won't because EasyJet and Ryanair fly international routes with narrowbodies.



Quoting Blackhawk144 (Reply 16):
International to whom? You? Be a little more specific than "International". Someone from the UK could've easily suggested this, and you would've pounded them for being "local", but the US to them is international.

You shouldn't say International.

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. EasyJet and Ryanair (plus SW) might order 787-3s, just might...
 
USADreamliner
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:00 am

LAB,AerolineasArgentinas,PLuna,Cubana,Greenlandair,Polynesian,AirTahitiNui,Hawwaiian,Malev,Austrian,Alitalia,Olympic,RoyalJordanian,SriLankan,RoyalAirMaroc,CameroonAirlines,TAAG,AirGabon.TAP,Yemenia,Iraqi,MIAT,AirCaledonie,Ryanair,JetBlue,Iberia,Swiss,SN Brussels,SAS...etc.

I think the logic question is:What airlines already placed an order for the 787,a shorter list.

Anyway, only time will tell.

Cheers
USADreamliner  duck 
 
B742
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:07 am

I don't think Sabena will order the 787  Wink

Seriously, I don't think that TG will, rather for the A350 I think! (Unless they opt for the 787 to replace the AB6)

I don't think US Airways will see the 787!

Rob!  Smile
 
A350
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:09 am

Never say never!

Aircraft purchases are often a result of negociations tactics rather than long-term-strategies. Furthermore, an airline can opt for the A350 but still get some 787s in a subsidy or as an interims solution. E.g., LH had some 767s from Condor for a while althogh they didn't opt for the 767 in general.

The 787 will have a long lifetime of at least two decades. Nobody can foresee this time in detail an exclude that an airline will ad hoc lease some 787s in 2015.

It just makes sense to guess who will operate big 787 fleets an who will not, but don't speculate that airline XY will never touch one single 787.

A350
 
irelayer
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Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 42):
The 800 orders are from the Flight International article which other members have provided in this thread. Perhapse I should've worded it better... "The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850"

From the FI article mentioned in this thread:

Meanwhile, Boeing confirms studies of a radical production ramp-up that could see up to 14 aircraft a month rolling out of the Everett site by 2011. The current plan would see the rate peak at seven a month by mid-2009. The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850.

What Boeing is saying (and what the FI article is paraphrasing) is that they are EXPECTING up to 850 orders in the first few years of production (2006-2011, for the sake of argument) and are preparing their operations based around that number. Nowhere does it say that existing orders, proposals, possible near-future orders, or "thinking" of ordering are approaching 850. To come on to here and throw out a figure that was either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted is completely irresponsible. Just imagine how many people will quote you in future threads. What you said originally was a misinterpretation that you passed off as fact, and that others have latched onto, and which you perpetuated in subsequent posts.

Just to be complete, these are the statements you and others made that suggested that that was the case:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
With reports of 787 has exceeded 800 orders already, it has certainly proved itself has an excellent plane, with lots of airlines ordering 787-3/8s.



Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
With 800+ orders before the plane is even flown, it's pretty safe to say that this airplane will have a bright future. But, I could be wrong.



Quoting N60659 (Reply 12):
The figure of 850 includes announced firm orders, options and purchase rights in addition to other on-going sales campaigns:

Again, if you read the article and specifically the paragraph where the 850 number is thrown out, it is saying that Boeing sees 850 orders in the future and thinks it can ramp up production to build those planes fast. It doesn't say that existing orders, LOI, or any other magical mystical possible future order adds up to anywhere near 850.

By my count, firm 787 orders stand at 273, with 195 options. Assuming noone cancels and all the options are excercised, and orders creep in by the end of the year to the tune of say, 50-100 frames, the total still stands at under 600 and under 400 firm. That leaves a gap of 200 optimistically and 400 realistically. Of course you see "850" and "787" in the same sentence and you automatically assume that it must mean Boeing has 850 orders in the books right now. My suggestion is that you read the article you are quoting from thoroughly and make sure you understand English sentences properly before you make wild claims as to how many airlines have ordered how many airplanes.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 42):
Maybe you could make some positive contributions to this discussion and tell us your opinion why wouldn't an international airline would not need a 787.

You continue on in this thread as if the 787 is the end-all-be-all of long-haul, medium body airliners. How about just listing possible future operators of the 787 instead of saying "who WOULD NOT order the 787". The way that question is phrased is why I originally questioned your motives. But I see now that you do not have a good command of the English language so you may not have noticed how that phrase played vs. "Who WOULD order the 787". Just for the record "Who WOULD NOT" gives the impression (to me, anyway) that the plane is so popular that anyone that isn't going to order it is crazy. "Who WOULD" just invities some harmless speculation about possible future operators of the type.

Oh and for the record, I believe a large AA (20+) order is imminent.

-IR

[Edited 2005-09-20 21:12:18]
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 46):
What Boeing is saying (and what the FI article is paraphrasing) is that they are EXPECTING up to 850 orders in the first few years of production (2006-2011, for the sake of argument) and are preparing their operations based around that number. Nowhere does it say that existing orders, proposals, possible near-future orders, or "thinking" of ordering are approaching 850. To come on to here and throw out a figure that was either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreted is completely irresponsible. Just imagine how many people will quote you in future threads. What you said originally was a misinterpretation that you passed off as fact, and that others have latched onto, and which you perpetuated in subsequent posts.

I based my statement from FI's article, which said "The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850." Yes, I agree with you that some of my statement in my posts does sound like this is a fact, and I apologize for the confusion. The "fact" is based on FI's article, especially based on the quoted sentence above, and sounded to me that Boeing has at least 800 787 orders.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 46):
You continue on in this thread as if the 787 is the end-all-be-all of long-haul, medium body airliners. How about just listing possible future operators of the 787 instead of saying "who WOULD NOT order the 787". The way that question is phrased is why I originally questioned your motives. But I see now that you do not have a good command of the English language so you may not have noticed how that phrase played vs. "Who WOULD order the 787". Just for the record "Who WOULD NOT" gives the impression (to me, anyway) that the plane is so popular that anyone that isn't going to order it is crazy. "Who WOULD" just invities some harmless speculation about possible future operators of the type.

I never have stated my opinion about the performance of the 787 as the "end-all-be-all of long-haul, medium body airliners." Instead of listing airlines that have ordered or might order the 787, which has been discussed many times before, I am curious why an airline would not order the 787. 787 definitely will not fit into every airline's fleet plan, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if some airlines choose to stay with A330s or order A350s. I do not understand why such a question would lead to anyone questioning my motive or my command of the English language. Do I think 787 is a successful airplane? IMO, yes I do, based on the number of orders so far and the number of airlines who ordered it, and I have stated it in my posts.

My motive is plan and simple: Why would an airline not order 787s? Maybe it's the route it flies? Maybe 787 is too small for their projected capacity? Maybe adding a oddball fleet type would increase training and MX costs? I'm sure there are lots of reasons. Most of the responses have been very informative, with the reasons why they think a particular airline has no need for 787s (notice no one said "Because A350 is better, 787 sucks, etc etc...)

So, before you question my motives, or the command of my English, read what others have said, and try not to read too much into it.

I'm just a simple person who's crazy about airlines and airliners.   If I wanted to imply that if any airline who doesn't order the 787 is nuts, I'd simply say so.

[Edited 2005-09-20 21:50:47]
 
blsbls99
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:07 pm

Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:42 am

How is 850 "future expected" orders and committments when the article clearly states that "orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are now said to exceed 850" (with the emphasis on the word NOW).
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airfrnt
Posts: 2002
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

Which Airlines Won't Order The 787?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 46):
The new plan is to cope with orders and commitments for the new twinjet that are NOW said to exceed 850.



Quoting IRelayer (Reply 46):

What Boeing is saying (and what the FI article is paraphrasing) is that they are EXPECTING up to 850 orders

Umm. Note capitalization...

Boeing clearly has the orders, or they would not be looking at increasing the production rate at this point. I expect that Boeing's internal sales projections over the life of this plane is probably closer to 1,500 orders.

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