jeckPDX
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New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:09 pm

I am a intern for JetBlue @ PDX. I hear from mgmt that there is a strong possibility that IAD-PDX could be one of he next JetBlue routes launched. From what I've told it will increase a/c utilization @ IAD where a plane is parked overnight that coul do a red-eye IAD-PDX. It will run @ similar times as the red-eyes from PDX/SEA-JFK.

From what I've heard this is being strongly considered by mgmt in NY, and is close to being announced formally. It will also be interesting to see how UA reacts to this as they are the only other carrier serving PDX-IAD non-stop, albeit with more frequency and far better departure and arrival times. It will definitely cause them to lower fares to compete, as JetBlue has a great name recognition for their innovative in flight service and entertainment. Some travelers might be willing to put up with the lousy slot times to fly JetBlue, if this route comes to fruition.

This is not the first time I've heard it mentioned and I seem to be hearing about it more frequently. I hope to hear an official announcement soon!

Cheers to JetBlue and their prosperity.

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
FA4B6
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:28 pm

seems logical. PDX would mirror SMF with a redeye to JFK and IAD.

Is the market there though? I would hope the idle plane would be used on a second IAD-SAN
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
S12PPL
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:09 pm

I would think so. Business travel on that route is probably strong. Plus the huge tourist market. Seems like a great idea!

Speaking of JetBlue at PDX, how are JFK loads??
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:51 pm

Yeah there's a market IAD-PDX. UA's flown it for a long time. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that (at least back in the day), IAD-PDX was one of their better performing routes. I know in my travels to Washington from here, I've never been able to get on it because it was either sold out or far too expensive than a connecting flight.

As far as UA having better frequencies, they only go once a day unless something's changed recently. True, that the times could be better, although I know a lot of people who prefer a red-eye to go east than a 7am flight...

I think it would be a win for B6 to do it. Now, since UA handles them in PDX, could that introduce heartburn since it would impact one of their routes?
 
Leneld
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:50 pm

Any news of additional flights at PDX is good news for me. I wonder if Boston will be next?
 
TedEx
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:28 pm

I wonder if/when B6 will begin to connect the West Coast dots with north/south service?
 
Leneld
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:43 pm

I hate to say this, but with these new additional flights, this once agian proves that Alaska Airlines is not interested in expanding out of Portland. This difuses all the statement that I heard over and over agian on here " If the market was there , they would fly them"......
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:38 am

You're exactly right, Leneld... WN saw a market to Chicago, jetBlue saw a market to New York, and now perhaps to Washington too. You can't convince me that AS couldn't make some Florida flights work. And now comes the whole "we can make more in Seattle" argument, which is fine, but in any case, Alaska's leaving money on the table in Portland.

As for B6 north/south service, I'm not sure it'll happen anytime soon. If B6 opened north/south routes out of LGB, or especially OAK, they'd have to have high frequencies to combat WN, AS, and UA. Now, a better strategy might be to link LGB/OAK with secondary markets like EUG, FAT, RDM, MFR, GEG, etc., using the 190s, but that's a lousy connection, for instance, EUG-LGB-IAD.
 
InTheSky74
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:45 am

Any growth for B6 would be a great thing.

I hope that the rumor is true.

Rob
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:47 am

any can be possible in PDX. a friend of mine was helping out in the PDX press conference and she was told that we have access to 2 gates there. don't be surprised as the E190's start coming online and relinquishing the A320 duties (for upstate NY runs) there'll be more transcon connect-the-dots going on.

Loads to/from PDX to JFK have been pretty full. so expansion is always a high possibility. tho wonder if it'll be like SEA tho have have a seasonal additional flight from JFK-PDX. oh well...bring on the flights baby!

~B6FA4ever
 
thelowfarehero
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:54 am

with the 190's coming online soon and hopefully filling the east coast short/med hops, hopefully we can see some westcoast expansions like SEA/PDX-BUR/SAN, SEA/PDX-LAS...and some more transcons BUR-IAD/FLL, SAN-EWR/BOS
I HAATE AA!
 
InTheSky74
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:04 am

You probably won't see the 190 on any of the JFK - upstate NY runs because the flights are always full already. You may see them ADD flights with the 190 to upstate NY in addition to their current flights....

Rob
 
jeckPDX
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 7):
As for B6 north/south service, I'm not sure it'll happen anytime soon. If B6 opened north/south routes out of LGB, or especially OAK, they'd have to have high frequencies to combat WN, AS, and UA

Agreed...I'm not sure B6 is ready to compete with the high frequencies and low fares offered by the previously mentioned airlines on north/south routes on the west coast, not to mention a current lack of equipment. I beleive there may be a niche market to LGB from PDX, as many travelers like to avoid the size/crowds of LAX nor want to pay the high fares to go into Orange County.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 2):
Business travel on that route is probably strong. Plus the huge tourist market. Seems like a great idea!

There is definitely a business market with Nike, Tektronix, Intel, Columbia Sportswear, Widmer Brewing, and many others I'm sure I'm missing headquartered or with significant operations in PDX. There is also a strong tourist market June-Sept. The Oregon coast is a huge tourist destination featured in many travel publications, not to mention tourism to the city of Portland itself.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 9):
Loads to/from PDX to JFK have been pretty full. so expansion is always a high possibility. tho wonder if it'll be like SEA tho have have a seasonal additional flight from JFK-PDX

Loads factors on the lone PDX-JFK flight have been very high, in the 90's I beleive. An additional JFK-PDX service could be a possibility once the E-190s replace the Airbii on some shorter routes. This would probably start out seasonal but depending on load factors, could stick around all year (pure speculation). I would definitely plan to see the IAD-PDX service first. I beleive this will be a very successful route to give travelers an alternaitve to UA and thier notoriously high fares going non-stop. Combined with B6's inflight product, this will be a winner. Already in PDX word of mouth is spreading about JetBlue's infight service and people are talking about it like crazy. Not to mention the spare gate B6 has at PDX.

This is being looked at very seriously,
I'm sure we will find out in the next few months.

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
Leneld
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:31 am

When Jetblue first started service from PDX-JFK, LAS was one of the cities the spokeperson stated that Jetblue is considering operating out of PDX. So it would not surprise me if it also added later once more a320's are freed up... Back to my Alaska analysis, Southwest is adding additional flight to LAS out of PDX this fall. I think Alaska has truly miss the ball where PDX is concerned.........
 
irelayer
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:34 am

B6 could make West Coast shuttle services work very easily with their 190's. Problem would be profitability. The first and foremost candidate would be LGB-OAK. They should start there with maybe 5 flights a day, and mirror that with a BUR-OAK routing. If those work out, they could do SAN-OAK, SAN-SJC, OAK-PDX, LGB/BUR-PDX, LGB/BUR-SEA. If I were JetBlue I wouldn't touch the LAS, RNO, or PHX markets. Low yield and not worth it to go up against WN. However any connecting of the dots would have to be far in the future, b/c as we all know the 190's are reserved for Florida first, East Coast second, and West Coast a very distant third.

-IR
 
thelowfarehero
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 14):
The first and foremost candidate would be LGB-OAK.

The only problem is that LGB is basically maxed out on it's slots, B6 would have to drop a few other flights to accomodate this.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 14):
they could do SAN-OAK, SAN-SJC, OAK-PDX, LGB/BUR-PDX, LGB/BUR-SEA

It would be very smart for them to operate these high yielding routes and make a solid presence on west coast service.
I HAATE AA!
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:35 am

well right now we only have 2 gates in OAK to use. it would be hard to add more flights when (at times) OAK can be crunched for gate space since we have quite a few flights through the day that leave at the same time. how much longer till the new terminal in OAK for WN is finally complete? hopefully soon then all the airlines in Term 1 can do a little shuffle and give a few more gates to the other airlines. the SF east bay has a lot of potential for addt'l service!

~B6FA4ever
 
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Leneld (Reply 6):
I hate to say this, but with these new additional flights, this once agian proves that Alaska Airlines is not interested in expanding out of Portland. This difuses all the statement that I heard over and over agian on here " If the market was there , they would fly them"......

Leneld, you're becoming a threat to dead horses everywhere.  Wink

It's not that the market isn't there - it's that the market isn't profitable right now thanks to the abysmal economy in PDX. That's why AAG continues to harmonize their schedules with QX where necessary to still offer a high level of service, while doing so without incurring a bloodbath of red ink.

Also, right now AS mainline aircraft are better utilized on SEA - East Coast routes than having them originate in PDX. When (or if) that changes, AS will definitely shift more capacity to PDX.

But for right now it's just not in the cards.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Airline7322
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:24 am

Orbitz seems to indicate that US Airways has a nonstop from IAD-PDX using an Aibrus A319. Is this really correct? If so, then United is not the lone wolf on this coveted route.
"Good ideas must be driven into practice with courageous patience."
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting Airline7322 (Reply 18):
Orbitz seems to indicate that US Airways has a nonstop from IAD-PDX using an Aibrus A319. Is this really correct? If so, then United is not the lone wolf on this coveted route.

its probably one of the MANY codeshare flights US/UA have together.

~B6FA4ever
 
Airline7322
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:33 am

Good point, I should have looked more closely. Glad to know someone's checking my facts...
"Good ideas must be driven into practice with courageous patience."
 
flypdx
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting Airline7322 (Reply 18):
Orbitz seems to indicate that US Airways has a nonstop from IAD-PDX using an Aibrus A319. Is this really correct? If so, then United is not the lone wolf on this coveted route.

It's a UA codeshare. We don't have US...We almost did, but then they pulled out before they came here.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 21):
We don't have US...We almost did, but then they pulled out before they came here.

i'm sorry but my mind just went straight to the gutter after i read this. *LOL* please accept my apologies for my dirty mind  Smile

~B6FA4ever
 
HPRamper
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Leneld (Reply 6):
I hate to say this, but with these new additional flights, this once agian proves that Alaska Airlines is not interested in expanding out of Portland

While it may be a business decision to avoid the "economy" in PDX, these are opportunities that will be forever lost to AS. This past year they lost their #1 status at PDX to WN and they will never get that back, for sure.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 9):
any can be possible in PDX. a friend of mine was helping out in the PDX press conference and she was told that we have access to 2 gates there

If JetBlue really wanted to pony up the cash, they could have permanent gates, PDX has a number of gates that are only used to RON aircraft and stay vacant much of the day. They could acquire some gates and in turn sublet them to other carriers when B6 aircraft are not in-station. It really wouldn't be a big problem for some carriers to RON their aircraft at a remote location instead of at a gate, UA parks at least two aircraft a night on remote ramp spots.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 3):
Now, since UA handles them in PDX, could that introduce heartburn since it would impact one of their routes?

Maybe UA wouldn't handle them anymore. America West could work it, or (god forbid) ATS.

Quoting Airline7322 (Reply 18):
Orbitz seems to indicate that US Airways has a nonstop from IAD-PDX using an Aibrus A319. Is this really correct?

Codeshare. I have never seen a US aircraft at PDX in the 3+ years I've worked at the airport.
 
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 23):
This past year they lost their #1 status at PDX to WN and they will never get that back, for sure.

So what? What good is it to hold the number one spot in the market when you're losing money doing it?  sarcastic 

I'd rather be #2 and make money than be #1 and lose it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
HPRamper
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:05 pm

I wasn't making a money point, I was just making an example. Southwest has added flights while AS has reduced theirs. AS just does not have the same fluidity of operations that WN has and cannot afford the same kind of market fluctuation. Problem is, Portland has a lot of potential and is constantly growing, but as to whether AS will ever come back, I don't know. More capacity by WN and US and now JetBlue is slowly shutting down the possibilities if AS wanted to regain their #1 status. No, number one does not necessarily mean making the most money, but I still bet WN makes a lot more money being number one than B6 does being number last.
 
jeckPDX
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
It's not that the market isn't there - it's that the market isn't profitable right now thanks to the abysmal economy in PDX.

The Oregon economy has improved drastically in the last year. Unemployment has decreased while several major corporations (many of which are the included in the 100 best companes to work for in the U.S.) have started re-hiring laid off workers or just hiring in general. I would not attribute Alaska's decision not to fly transcon from PDX to the economy here, it may just be that SEA is so close that is seems almost redunant to fly transcon from both cities. I do beleive there is a demand for Florida routes non-stop and AS is sitting on the bench so to speak, letting the other players up to bat to see if the strike out first. If B6 hits a home run with PDX-IAD, I would not be suprised to see other carriers (such as AS) follow suit with transcons from PDX. As I recall, pre-9/11 DL had several transcons from PDX to JFK/BOS and a few others if I remember correctly. Just like their Asian flight that were pulled, I heard that loads were pretty good on these flights.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 23):
While it may be a business decision to avoid the "economy" in PDX, these are opportunities that will be forever lost to AS. This past year they lost their #1 status at PDX to WN and they will never get that back, for sure.

IMO, AS is going to regret not going for this market while they had the chance and brand recognition in the Portland area. Once other players, such as JetBlue enter the scene with a good fare and product, this market share and repuation could be reduced or lost. I know this has happened wiith legacy carriers to the NY market with B6 and I'd imagine it would be the same case on an IAD-PDX route, or any direct route to the East coast for that matter. NW jumped in where DL left a gap for services to Asia and I see no reason why a carrier would not go for an untapped market where little to no direct competition exists where they can make more $.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 23):
Codeshare. I have never seen a US aircraft at PDX in the 3+ years I've worked at the airport.

I have lived in the Portland area for 12 years and have never seen a US aircraft at PDX. UA flies the route PDX-IAD with A319 equipment and US sells seats as a code share, this flight will likely never be operated with US aircaraft. There might have been a diversion or emergency landing by a US plane at PDX in the last 12 years but I highly doubt it.

Quoting Leneld (Reply 13):
When Jetblue first started service from PDX-JFK, LAS was one of the cities the spokeperson stated that Jetblue is considering operating out of PDX.



Maybe, but with AS, HP, and WN all flying direct with multiple flights daily, there may be over-capacity. I'm not saying B6 would'nt succeed as they have a great product yet severe competition and fare wars would most likely result, hurting everyone but the passengers. I see B6 using their avail. aircraft for routes with less direct competition and more transcons to, "connect the dots," on both coasts.

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 21):
We don't have US...We almost did, but then they pulled out before they came here

When was US planning service to PDX? Were they going to fly to PHL, CLT, or both? This would have been a smart move on their part as there is no direct service to either city and they would have had a monopoly on these routes. I imagine they would have done well. Many people underestimaste the business market to PDX, not to mention its strong O&D presence. There also must be some tourism and leisure travelers as I see chartered jets from Miami Air, skyservice, etc once a week or so.

Sorry about the length or the reply, there were just many comments I wanted to respond to. Thanks for reading!

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
HPRamper
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
it may just be that SEA is so close that is seems almost redunant to fly transcon from both cities.

And the fact that they have regular Horizon shuttles between PDX and SEA, only a 45 minute flight or so.

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
When was US planning service to PDX? Were they going to fly to PHL, CLT, or both?

I did see a news article from a few years ago that someone here on a.net posted. It was in the plans but never materialized.
 
b6sea
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting Leneld (Reply 13):
Back to my Alaska analysis, Southwest is adding additional flight to LAS out of PDX this fall. I think Alaska has truly miss the ball where PDX is concerned

I dont know if this fact has been discussed before but AS doesn't exactly have the planes right now to do PDX-east coast routes (temporarily stopped MIA and pushed back DFW) And from what has been discussed on other posts QX is pretty low on RJs too so I think once AS recieves more planes and after all of SEA ambitions are somewhat complete, then you will see a PDX and the random LAX expansions (someone correct me if im wrong)... IT WILL HAPPEN!!! just not as soon as some (including myself) would like to see.

Back to B6... Hope this rumour is true or comes into reality somewhere down the road. I don't know but seems to me that SEA would get the flight before but there may be more business traffic between PDX and IAD, I dont know. Hopefully this happens though. Also hope we see some E190s over here on the west coast (a guy can dream right?)

-Chans
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:46 pm

...it's that the market isn't profitable right now thanks to the abysmal economy in PDX

What was the dead horse again? I'd like to see the abysmal Portland economy. There are problems sporadically around the state of Oregon, for certain, but Portland is doing just fine thank you (and B6/WN seem to agree). If the economy here is so awful, and no one can make any money, then you might want to let Frontier know that the 90% or so of the seats that they're filling (and not at cheap prices) are just vapor-butts.

When was US planning service to PDX? Were they going to fly to PHL, CLT, or both?

As I recall, the plan was twice daily PDX-PIT, slated to start October 2001. For obvious reasons, it didn't.
 
jeckPDX
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:57 pm

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 29):
As I recall, the plan was twice daily PDX-PIT, slated to start October 2001. For obvious reasons, it didn't

Too bad...the route would have been a winner, IMO, and might have prompted WN to seriously consider flying the route as well as the now have a significant presence in PHL. Its a shame the tragic events of 9/11 took place and screwed up every U.S. airline's agenda, not to mention the tragedy itself.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 29):
What was the dead horse again? I'd like to see the abysmal Portland economy. There are problems sporadically around the state of Oregon, for certain, but Portland is doing just fine thank you (and B6/WN seem to agree). If the economy here is so awful, and no one can make any money, then you might want to let Frontier know that the 90% or so of the seats that they're filling (and not at cheap prices) are just vapor-butts.

Thank you, Flashmeister, I'm not sure where the misconception about Portland's abysmal economy comes from, but Portland, if I recall correctly was voted the 3rd most desireable U.S. city to live in and was awarded 1st place for being the cleanest. The economy is booming right now and with the recent expansion of the urban growth boundary, I would expect to see Portland and its surrounding communities grow at an alarming rate in the next decade. Additional airline service will surely be needed, the airport is a beautiful facility moat of which is brand new with lots of empty gates currently. The best thing about PDX is all the airport shops are required to sell the merchandise for no more than they would at thier retail oulet outside the aiport. Plus no sales tax!
IMO, B6 is smart, its getting a head start, and gaining a loyal following in the process.

Quoting B6sea (Reply 28):
I think once AS recieves more planes and after all of SEA ambitions are somewhat complete, then you will see a PDX and the random LAX expansions

This could very well be the case. I also think AS is waiting to see another airline give this type of route from PDX a shot to see howthey do before commiting themselves.

Just my 2 dollars worth of sense

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
I would not attribute Alaska's decision not to fly transcon from PDX to the economy here, it may just be that SEA is so close that is seems almost redunant to fly transcon from both cities.

No, but...

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 27):
And the fact that they have regular Horizon shuttles between PDX and SEA, only a 45 minute flight or so.

And the simple fact that there's a finite number of planes in the fleet, and the best utilization for them right now is on nonstops to/from SEA, not PDX. That time will eventually come though...

Quoting B6sea (Reply 28):
I think once AS recieves more planes and after all of SEA ambitions are somewhat complete, then you will see a PDX and the random LAX expansions (someone correct me if im wrong)... IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

Bada-bing. SEA makes AS the most money, so SEA comes first. PDX will follow, though - AS just needs to get more 738s on the property first.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
dolphinflyer
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:06 pm

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 11):
You may see them ADD flights with the 190 to upstate NY in addition to their current flights....

meaning what? ALB? I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if that happens. What other new 190 markets would there be in Upstate NY?
 
InTheSky74
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:13 pm

I wasn't saying new markets... although that may happen in time. I just think you could see JetBlue adding flights (in addition to the A320 flights) to BUF, SYR, ROC during the day with the 190.

Those flights could likely continue from those cities to places in Florida. For example, the flight could operate JFK-BUF and then BUF-FLL.

Just a thought.

Rob
 
stirling
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:27 pm

WN has just announced a re-deployed MSY aircraft will fly PDX-LAS.

Down the road, when expansion is complete, and WN gives up their T2 gates, B6 will have the opportunity, if they choose to accept it, for expansion at OAK. Competition to secondary West coast markets served by UA at SFO might be a home-run for B6 at OAK.

The economy in Portland is a non-issue....it's old news.
Housing in Portland is unfortunately taking on characteristics of California.
Oregon hiring grew by 3.4%, but an influx of new residents, coming to the state looking for work, is what has driven the unemployed numbers up. Portland is just a very desirable place to live; things will catch up.

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 12):
There is definitely a business market with Nike, Tektronix, Intel, Columbia Sportswear, Widmer Brewing, and many others I'm sure I'm missing

DaimlerChrysler/Freightliner Trucks....a big reason for LH to FRA.
Plus LSI (a chip maker) and Soloflex/Bowflex (in Vancouver)
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flypdx
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
When was US planning service to PDX? Were they going to fly to PHL, CLT, or both? This would have been a smart move on their part as there is no direct service to either city and they would have had a monopoly on these routes. I imagine they would have done well. Many people underestimaste the business market to PDX, not to mention its strong O&D presence. There also must be some tourism and leisure travelers as I see chartered jets from Miami Air, skyservice, etc once a week or so.

It was around 2000/2001. 9/11 had a major impact on the decision i suppose. I know they were looking at PIT and possibly PHL, though I am not sure.
 
HPRamper
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 34):
DaimlerChrysler/Freightliner Trucks....a big reason for LH to FRA.
Plus LSI (a chip maker) and Soloflex/Bowflex (in Vancouver)

The new Nautilus world headquarters being finished in Vancouver. The list goes on and on, too much to think about.
 
kwbl
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:39 am

US was indeed planning on serving PDX with 2x daily to PIT and 1x daily to PHL. They also announced AUS and SAT at the same time but of course none of these happened.
 
jeckPDX
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 34):
Housing in Portland is unfortunately taking on characteristics of California.

Unfortunately, this is the case, however is not nearly as bad as SoCal yet. I just bought a 2500 sq. ft. Row home/townhome with 3 bedrooms and a sitting room, 3 and 1/2 baths and tons of luxury touches such as granite counters, stainless steel appliances, maple hardwoods, 2 gas fireplaces, 2 car garage, etc. All in a very desireable/trendy area of town. Brand new from $219,000. Find me anything close to that in the bay area or soCal. Portland is definitely not the cheapest place to live nor does the housing market mirror California's high housing costs yet. There are many people moving to Portland from CA and AZ however many are connected with Intel or other industries. We also have a large Indian/Middle Eastern and Asian population on the west side of town due to Intel. There are also many people from Ireland working for Intel and many from the U.K. as well. In fact, I am surprised no airline has started a non-stop flight to DUB, as I am nearly positive there is a strong demand for it. Something for Aer Lingus to consider? Or possibly NW if they can get route approval.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 34):
Portland is just a very desirable place to live; things will catch up.

Very true, like I said in an earlier reply, with the urban growth boundary expanded, look to see PDX grown very quickly here in the next 10-15 years. I am almost positive once AS has suitable equipment and they have seen there is a market to go transcontinental non-stop from PDX, they will most likely commence some of the routes that SEA has currently.

Anyone know why DL pulled their transcons to JFK/BOS from PDX several years back? (around 1999-2000 I believe) I remember them being hard to book a seat on as they were nearly always full. If I recall correctly, both were operated with B-757s. Can anyone shed some light on this?

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:39 am

Anyone know why DL pulled their transcons to JFK/BOS from PDX several years back?

Because they abandoned their PDX asian gateway at the same time, and these flights served to feed flights to Asia. I dunno if PDX-BOS would be worth it, but clearly PDX-JFK works, and CO added a bunch of EWR seats recently, too.

I think once AS recieves more planes and after all of SEA ambitions are somewhat complete, then you will see a PDX and the random LAX expansions

Well, that's all fine and dandy, but who knows who they'll be competing with? AS has done enough to piss off Portlanders lately that it's not a sure bet that the flocks will come just because AS finally decides to fly a little farther than California with mainline.

Why fly AS when I can fly B6 to JFK and the Northeast, or F9 to DEN and through to Mexico, Florida, etc.? Get a better seat with TV, check my bag at the curb without paying that ridiculous $2 fee, and get better snacks inflight? Easy choice.

If your answer is miles, you can have 'em... the only place you can use miles these days are flights to Toledo and Fargo in the middle of February. I'll pass, thanks.

The mistake that I think AS is making is not covering the most likely inroads to their territory - PDX-JFK is a good example, PDX-DEN was another good example when they were late to the game behind Frontier and still provide inferior service to DEN.

While Horizon is, hands down, the best regional carrier that I've flown and is far and away better than anyone else in its category, I gotta say that my recent flights on Alaska are nothing more than just average. They don't offer anything that Delta, Continental, and United lack. They're pretty ho-hum.

AS is losing share here, and will continue to do so. People here seem to be as indifferent to AS as it is to PDX -- folks know that AS isn't hometown, despite their best marketing effort. AS seems to believe that "when we serve it, they will come". I wouldn't bet on it.

So if AS wants to focus on the piles of money in SEA, fine... I just wonder sometimes whether the pile of money left behind at PDX is really that much smaller than the one at SEA.
 
HPRamper
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:18 am

At the very least, Portland is growing at a rapid pace. Seattle isn't growing any more. Traffic at PDX is consistently increasing...and who is taking advantage of it?
WN is. B6 is. CO is. F9 and HP are to an extent. AS is not. AA, DL, UA and NW can't at the moment and it will hurt them the same as AS.
 
kwbl
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:08 am

PDX just released the stats for the month. Comparing the mainline carriers, AS had the lowest average # of PAX per flight (107). WN was 2nd lowest at 110 but generally have slightly lower capacity (on average). The others seem to be very high. LH, F9, MX & HA all have load factors in the mid to high 90's. Everyone else seems to be doing real well. I personally like AS but by making so much of an investment in SEA, they have allowed others to come in and access marhet share without much of a fight-they will have a very hard time getting it back.

If you looks at the PDX market, there are only a few truly viable routes left domestically (BOS, BWI, CLE, PHL, MCO, MIA/FLL, STL). I do not see one of those that AS is the carrier most likely to start service. US will most likely go to PHL, B6 to BOS, MCO & MIA/FLL, CO to CLE, WN to BWI, & AA or WN to STL. Thus, if AS goes transcon at PDX, they will most likely have competition as opposed to being the carrier that inaugurates service.

I agree that QX is about as good a regional there is and maybe the long term plan to continue to turn it PDX into a QX "mega hub". I could see a time when AS has only a few flights at PDX (SNA, SAN, LAX, PHX, LAS) with all others being turned over to QX (in fact, its already close to that!)
 
jeckPDX
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 39):
AS is losing share here, and will continue to do so. People here seem to be as indifferent to AS as it is to PDX -- folks know that AS isn't hometown, despite their best marketing effort. AS seems to believe that "when we serve it, they will come". I wouldn't bet on it.

Correct. This is not the right attitude for AS to have. I can understand the lack of appropriate equipment, but they really are losing their once predominant sgare of the PDX market. Many Portlanders once saw AS as a northwest airline, now they see it as a Seattle airline dropping off QX on the way. Don't get me wrong, QX is wonderful but how far can a CR7 take you? Certainly not transcon, or to Mexico. Some of these flights, if and when served by AS will have there market shrae taken from other carriers, especially those with better in flight product.

So if AS wants to focus on the piles of money in SEA, fine... I just wonder sometimes whether the pile of money left behind at PDX is really that much smaller than the one at SEA.

Once again, agreed, PDX is starting a major growth spurt and those that are first in line will be the ones getting the cash pile so to speak. If AS wants in, they better quit being timid and go for it because the cash pile in SEA is dwindling and SEA is basically out of room to grow.

Quoting KWBL (Reply 41):
If you looks at the PDX market, there are only a few truly viable routes left domestically (BOS, BWI, CLE, PHL, MCO, MIA/FLL, STL).

Does AA no longer serve STL direct from PDX? Boy, am I behind on the times. You think I would know this working at PDX and All. A few more lucrative transcons I can pcik out are TPA, CLT, and semi-transcon BNA, CMH, IND, and MSY. I think a IND-PDX route would be a real winner as well. DL's CVG-PDX flight seems to have pretty high and consistent load factors.

PDX is a great aiport for expansion right now with its gorgeous facility. (IMO, one of the finest in the U.S.), and with the new connecting walkway between concourses C and D inside security, this would be a great airport for a hub operation like DL once had (see similar thread) Lets hope NW expands her too if they come out of BK anytime soon
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:35 pm

Quoting JeckPDX (Thread starter):
It will also be interesting to see how UA reacts to this as they are the only other carrier serving PDX-IAD non-stop, albeit with more frequency and far better departure and arrival times. It will definitely cause them to lower fares to compete,

UA operates a 7am flight, one daily during the fall/winter/spring months, and then another A320 is added for summer connections to Europe, etc. If B6 operates a red-eye, this may/may not have an effect during the off-season, but the summer could be a different story.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 3):
IAD-PDX was one of their better performing routes.

Agreed...still is, I think. Oregon had to fight hard to get it several years ago, and Sen. Hatfield or Packwood (or both) lobbied hard for it. UA tried it on a summer-basis only, and it did so well, that it was upgraded to year-round. I forget the year it started, but I want to say it started with either a DC-8 or 757.

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
I have lived in the Portland area for 12 years and have never seen a US aircraft at PDX.

 checkmark  US Airways has never served PDX. That will be changing here very quickly, once the merger is completed.

Quoting JeckPDX (Reply 26):
When was US planning service to PDX? Were they going to fly to PHL, CLT, or both?

PIT? Not sure about that, Flash. My understanding was that PDX-PHL was high on the list, for int'l. connection opportunities in PHL. It was going to be an A320, and was slated to start in 2001, before 9/11, and was part of the UA/US merger integration. Glad UA/US didn't happen, but I think there is still a potential market for PDX-PHL.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
redngold
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:18 pm

Actually, I hear that the newest jetBlue route is BUR-LAX, via LGB and circuits over the Pacific Ocean.  duck 
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flypdx
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 43):
Not sure about that

I am.
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:03 pm

PIT? Not sure about that, Flash. My understanding was that PDX-PHL was high on the list, for int'l. connection opportunities in PHL.

Looks like we're both right, actually:
(from http://usairways.com/about/press_2001/nw_01_0829.htm)
Arlington, Va., Aug. 29, 2001 -- Portland, Ore., will be added as a new destination on the US Airways route network when the company introduces daily nonstop roundtrip service from both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, effective June 2, 2002. US Airways will operate two daily nonstop flights from Pittsburgh and one daily nonstop flight from Philadelphia using 120-seat Airbus A319 aircraft.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:10 pm

Thanks for clarifying that... Wink

Now that US *will* be flying to PDX as part of the US/HP merger, I wonder when they'll start PDX-PHL and possibly PIT as well...
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
flashmeister
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:12 pm

I don't see US(HP) starting PDX-PIT, but if they're smart, they'll start PDX-PHL in a hurry before WN does... I think this route is a winner.
 
joeman
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RE: New JetBlue Route: IAD-PDX?

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:53 pm

[quote=KWBL,reply=41] US will most likely go to PHL, B6 to BOS, MCO & MIA/FLL, CO to CLE, WN to BWI, & AA or WN to STL.

The chances of regular CO CLE-PDX service is near zero. CO announced this route several years ago and nothing happened. They ran a couple of flights during the Thanksgiving holiday last year. The CO CLE operation is often subject to inconsistency with routes as to season or whether they operate at all unless they are ones that have been serviced by other airlines throughout history. i.e.: Both AA and UA had daily nonstop CLE-SAN service in the 1970's. CO opened the route up, flew it for about three years and then it disappered completely. Lately, it appears a couple times of the week depending on the season. Some modern day "hub" operation nearly thirty years later,