KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:12 am

Courtesy: WCCO-TV

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_264132558.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Courtesy: The Houston Chronicle

Union Says Northwest To Outsource Attendants

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3362832

[Edited 2005-09-21 21:40:51]
 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Posts: 2010
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:29 am

Does this mean flight schedule changes and curtailments are imminent too?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Does this mean flight schedule changes and curtailments are imminent too?

In a big way. NWA is about to shrink right before our eyes.

Northwest's management is going to do the dirty work at lightning speed.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:48 am

I certainly hope they hire foreign stewardesses to replace American flight attendants. Service will go up and prices will go down. A big win for the passengers.  thumbsup 
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:58 am

In conjunction with outsourcing FA's as well, this is all part of a plan that will bring NW back into profitability. I honestly don't know how much lower one can go when they are already only making $19.5k a year, but NW's fuel costs have only been surpassed by their labor costs so something has to give. I was impressed with how professional and courteous the FA's were on my last NW DC9 flight just over a week ago.

Quote:
Northwest Airlines, flying while in bankruptcy, wants to position itself to outsource all flight attendant jobs on international flights, as well as all attendant jobs on planes with 100 or fewer seats.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/12697625.htm
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18253
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:02 am

Meanwhile, the BOD did nothing and the Chairman cashed in:

http://www.kmsp.com/news/newsat9/story.asp?1648923

"Chairman Gary Wilson, whose summer stock dump netted him 19.5 million..."

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
stlgph
Posts: 9056
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 4):
I honestly don't know how much lower one can go when they are already only making $19.5k a year,

That's $15,210 a year if wages are reduced by 22%.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Does this mean flight schedule changes and curtailments are imminent too?

In a big way. NWA is about to shrink right before our eyes.

Not if they're outsourcing flight attendants. But Things are about to get
-real- ugly with this airline. I don't think it's a matter of Northwest shrinking, I think it's a matter of time before the employees decide to simultaneously walk out.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:06 am

How many F/A's does NW have on the payroll today?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
Okie
Posts: 3554
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:14 am

Outsourcing F/A's has been the galley rumor over at AA as well.
Looks like NW is doing anything it can to relieve itself of unions.
First Mx, then F/A's, that means the pilots next and then of course the passengers.
I am sure NW will use the Bankruptcy to help on all fronts.
I have said before it is going to get real ugly at NW and will continue to do so until the passengers leave in droves.

Okie
 
jblake1
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:25 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:14 am

I'm all for restructuring where it makes logical sense; but outsourcing flight attendants? Is my favorite airline going to turn into a shell of its former self? Is NWA going to outsource practically every non-management job at the company?

Pretty soon NWA will be a marketing company with contracts with other companies that when pieced together form some semblance of an airline. Sheesh!!!

As a customer, I do NOT want outsourced flight attendants, maintenance, or pilots.

I'm even willing to pay more for it!

jblake1
WP Gold Elite
 
cdgdtw
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 6:34 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:19 am

I certainly hope they hire foreign stewardesses to replace American flight attendants. Service will go up and prices will go down. A big win for the passengers.


Zvezda - I certainly hope whatever company you supposedly chair in Lithuania goes under, depletes your savings, and leaves the staff jobless and bitter with their former CEO.

Get real and enjoy flying the national Lithuanian carrier. What's it called again?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting Cdgdtw (Reply 10):
I certainly hope whatever company you supposedly chair in Lithuania goes under, depletes your savings, and leaves the staff jobless and bitter with their former CEO.

I hope you have a better day tomorrow.
 
jblake1
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:25 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:36 am

September 21, 2005

Northwest Airlines
2700 Lone Oak Parkway
Eagan, MN 55121
Fax: 800-692-4653

Re: Outsourcing Flight Attendants

Dear NWA:

There are recent media reports that suggest that NWA is working toward outsourcing flight attendants on international flights and those flights that operate with less than 100 seats.

I am strongly against the outsourcing of any member of the flight crew to outside companies/countries. One of the reasons I fly NWA is the service and safety I receive from your current employees. I understand the need to restructure; but this makes no sense.

If NWA does proceed with such an action, I will strongly consider outsourcing my travel plans and business to another airline.

Sincerely,

Jason Blake
WorldPerks Gold Elite
 
RAMPRAT980
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
I certainly hope they hire foreign stewardesses to replace American flight attendants. Service will go up and prices will go down. A big win for the passengers.

This is to inform you that slavery was abolished many, many years ago
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
airbazar
Posts: 6936
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 9):
As a customer, I do NOT want outsourced flight attendants, maintenance, or pilots.

Seems to work for SQ and you don't usually hear about SQ passengers complain about the quality of their services.

OK, I'm not sure about their FA's but certainly a lot of their pilots are outsourced and even based outside of Singapore.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 9):
I'm even willing to pay more for it!

Really? How much more? 5%? 10%? 20%?

Like you, I used to fly almost exclusively on NWA. Plat Elite at one point. But I've come to value price and reliability over any particular carrier. NW gets the bulk of my travel today, I'm still a gold elite, like you. But they only get it when they best suit my needs, and the needs of my customers, who ultimately pay the bill. As someone who provides outsourcing solutions to a major industry, I have no problem with NWA's plan to outsource. It'll give them the flexibility to respond to market trends, and to have a much better control of labor costs. As long as safety is never compromised, it's a win for the customer, and will probably have me onboard more often. My experiences during the mechanics "strike" are that the true professionals in the industry wil never let safety be compromised on an aircraft they are responsible for, whether they are a NWA employee, or 3rd party vendor responsible for the A/C.
 
nwajetset
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:35 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:32 am

My experiences during the mechanics "strike" are that the true professionals in the industry wil never let safety be compromised on an aircraft they are responsible for, whether they are a NWA employee, or 3rd party vendor responsible for the A/C.

Really? Is this why they are currently being investigated by the FAA? Is this why there have been more emergency landings in the past month and a half than there were all year prior to the strike? News flash from the front-the mentality here is to run with the cheap labor for all it's worth, and deal with the subsequent disasters later. I'm not saying that the current individuals would intentionally do any harm, but the vast majority of them are utterly and dangerously under qualified. The current administration could care less.

I hope you have a better day tomorrow.

And I hope you will get a clue tomorrow. Your response is so typical of an outsider. Maybe you're not familiar with the American work ethic (or lack thereof as of late). If you feel that turning NWA in to a garage sale, and approve of all of this, you completely deserve the service you are sure to receive in the not so distant future.
 
JAFA
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:31 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:05 am

Flight attendant costs are not what is putting NWA in bankruptcy! We are some of the most productive FA's in the industry, we are already working with a skeleton crew, and we are about to take a paycut. And we don't really make that much money in the grand scheme of things. We recently tabulated that ONE bonus, of ONE executive could pay 100 flight attendants for one year.

What comes next outsourcing the pilots?
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:19 am

Expect a 15% reduction in the DEC sked apx system wide.
 
HunUtazo
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:43 am

airline consolidation:

1. nwac into amr

2. ual into cal

3. dal into swa airtran usair


results:

Two huge post consolidated legacies

One huge post consolidated swa

misc lcc remnants
dude
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting JAFA (Reply 18):
What comes next outsourcing the pilots?

C'mon...people here'll tell you that there's an army of scabs ready to take your jobs at fifty cents on the dollar and fire half of you in the bargain....

I think the strategy is called divide and conquer.

Try vending machines...

My old man used to say if you want to buy oats you pay a certain price, but if you want oats that have already been through the horse once they're less expensive.

Memo to NWA:

You get what you pay for.

Nuff said.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
stlgph
Posts: 9056
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:17 pm

Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 9):
Pretty soon NWA will be a marketing company with contracts with other companies that when pieced together form some semblance of an airline. Sheesh!!!

It's just like they do now with the express carriers...just on a more...personal level.

Quoting JAFA (Reply 18):
Flight attendant costs are not what is putting NWA in bankruptcy!

Yes but Flight Attendants are a variable cost. Jet fuel and the cost of planes are a fixed cost. Welcome to macroeconomics.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
toltommy
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting Nwajetset (Reply 16):
Really? Is this why they are currently being investigated by the FAA? Is this why there have been more emergency landings in the past month and a half than there were all year prior to the strike?

Yeah, then explain the nosegear collapse at Guam BEFORE the strike! Those darn 747-200's get so nose heavy! The FAA investigation, from everything I've seen so far is simply political, led by the big labor liberals. If there was any truth to the rumors, we would've heard more by now. Sorry, but that dog just won't hunt.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Yes but Flight Attendants are a variable cost. Jet fuel and the cost of planes are a fixed cost. Welcome to macroeconomics.

Hmmm...I have to disagree with you, here. First of all, it's much closer to micro/managerial economics, for starters. We're dealing with costs that pertain to a specific entity, not at the economy level. Macroeconomics deals with subjects like monetary policy, GDP, international trade, etc. etc.

Flight attendants (labor cost) is a fixed cost. Each flight you operate has to have a minimum number of flight attendants...that's part of the fixed cost to operate the flight, and at the airline overall. Some attendants make more than others, but it's still considered a "fixed cost".

Jet fuel, I would argue is a "mixed cost"...you need it to operate a flight which makes it a fixed cost, but it's also highly variable and out of the control of the airline. In the end, it's "mixed".

Cost of planes are indeed a fixed cost. Whether you buy it outright, or have a monthly lease payment(s), it's fixed.

Hope that helps.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:56 pm

Could one of you american members give me a bit more info on how easy
and cheap it seems to lay off people in american corporations.
I mean, on this side of the pond, it costs fortunes to fire employees
with decades of seniority.
Do people in the states receive a large amount of money when they are
fired for reasons other then serious mistakes on their behalf??
I'm eager to find out about this matter.
Maybe this should be in Non-av but I'm sure a short explanation could fit very
well in this topic.
Thanx

Regards
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 14):
Seems to work for SQ and you don't usually hear about SQ passengers complain about the quality of their services.

And I'd say even more for Cathay. I have had just superb service from their Filipino/Indonesian/Thai/Malaysian/Korean crews.  bigthumbsup 
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
GNDOPS
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:25 pm

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 25):
Could one of you american members give me a bit more info on how easy
and cheap it seems to lay off people in american corporations.
I mean, on this side of the pond, it costs fortunes to fire employees
with decades of seniority.
Do people in the states receive a large amount of money when they are
fired for reasons other then serious mistakes on their behalf??
I'm eager to find out about this matter.
Maybe this should be in Non-av but I'm sure a short explanation could fit very
well in this topic.

In the USA management always gets the diamond mine.....and the employees get the shaft!
 
RAMPRAT980
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:23 pm

Are the 1,400 F/A's being furloughed or is NWA permanently doing away with those positions ?
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
stlgph
Posts: 9056
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
First of all, it's much closer to micro/managerial economics, for starters.

Not exactly, no.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
Macroeconomics deals with subjects like monetary policy, GDP, international trade, etc. etc.

It is not strictly limited to montary policy. So, not exactly, no.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
Flight attendants (labor cost) is a fixed cost. Each flight you operate has to have a minimum number of flight attendants...that's part of the fixed cost to operate the flight, and at the airline overall. Some attendants make more than others, but it's still considered a "fixed cost".

It's not fixed if you disband the union. A la Northwest.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 23):
Jet fuel, I would argue is a "mixed cost"...you need it to operate a flight which makes it a fixed cost, but it's also highly variable and out of the control of the airline. In the end, it's "mixed".

The fixed cost is the bottom line fuel requirements for any airplane.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 28):
It's not fixed if you disband the union. A la Northwest.

But you still need flight attendants to operate a flight...so it IS a fixed cost. The overall cost would go down, but it's still a fixed part of operating the aircraft.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
stlgph
Posts: 9056
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 29):
But you still need flight attendants to operate a flight...so it IS a fixed cost. The overall cost would go down, but it's still a fixed part of operating the aircraft.

fixed up until minimum wage as set by the government.

variable anything over that amount.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
airbazar
Posts: 6936
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 24):
Could one of you american members give me a bit more info on how easy
and cheap it seems to lay off people in american corporations.

It's the main difference between a Capitalist system and a Socialist system.
When American's talk about freedom, what they're really talking about is freedom of Enterprise, NOT personal freedom (althouhg they almost always bundle the two together). In that regard (personal freedom), Europe wins hands down. Here in the US, there are very few laws protecting the workers; that would be anti-capitalism. All you need to start a business is pay the fee to register it and that's it, you're in business. In most of Europe you have all kinds of regulations and more regulation, and worker's benefits, etc, etc, which make life difficult for businesses.

Basically, in Europe, companies have to pay a huge amount of money to the goverment for each employee to cover for benefits. Here in the US, it's the companies, not the government that provides the benefits to the employees. When a company lays people off [in Europe], the government stops receiving that money and on top of it, has to pay unemployment/social security benefits including "free" health care. The more years of work, the more expensive it is. So the governments makes it very difficult for companies to lay people off.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Cdgdtw (Reply 10):
Zvezda - I certainly hope whatever company you supposedly chair in Lithuania goes under, depletes your savings, and leaves the staff jobless and bitter with their former CEO.

Get real and enjoy flying the national Lithuanian carrier. What's it called again?

Thank you Cdgdtw, I was about to zing this guy myself, but you did a fine job. Welcome to my RR list, by the way.

I do hope that NWA doesn't outsource the f/a positions. That is a position that should stay within the company. I understand they need to cut costs to survive, and the layoffs cannot be avoided, but I really hope they can keep that department in-house.

In the end, NW will do what it has to do to survive, and laying off 1,400 could save God only knows how many jobs. It would be wise for their union to not threaten to strike and cripple the airline further.

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 24):

Very easy. Corporations get a pat on the back when they do it, too. You know, because we are a capitalist nation, which apparently means we can devalue our skilled workers to bring in cheap work so they can do the same job for 10 cents. No such thing as U.S. Capitalism sans limits, though we are a democracy with major limits and exceptions.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:39 am

 
United737522
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
certainly hope they hire foreign stewardesses to replace American flight attendants. Service will go up and prices will go down. A big win for the passengers.

I don't know if this is racist or just an idiotic statement.

Quoting Nwajetset (Reply 16):
Is this why there have been more emergency landings in the past month and a half than there were all year prior to the strike?

Source...?

Quoting Nwajetset (Reply 16):
). If you feel that turning NWA in to a garage sale

What a lame metaphor
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:45 am

I said it in the Delta thread and I'll say it again....

um why? These cutbacks and more are expected....part of the process of entering bankruptcy protection....not really breaking news.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 24):
Could one of you american members give me a bit more info on how easy
and cheap it seems to lay off people in american corporations.

Very easy, with the massive amounts of people, immigrants and anyone else willing to work for less, and Unions having bad stigma by your average workers.

Quoting Gndops (Reply 26):
In the USA management always gets the diamond mine.....and the employees get the shaft!

Exactly, and anyone who questions why is labeled a communist

Quoting STLGph (Reply 30):
fixed up until minimum wage as set by the government.

variable anything over that amount.

I think you need to re-read your definitions
 
nwajetset
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:35 am

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting United737522 (Reply 35):
What a lame metaphor

What a lame post. Thaks for your insightful original comments.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9056
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Northwest To Lay Off 1,400 Flight Attendants

Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
I think you need to re-read your definitions

i just did a really really really really -really- long paper on this. the minimum wage is the fixed cost.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport