jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:25 pm

There are rumors flying around that US may go to an expressless operation. There will still be express aircraft but the ground handling will be done by all mainline employees. This would solve two problems. The first would be that the larger stations such as PHL LAS PHX CLT PIT BOS LGA and DCA would be simplified. You would not be paying two different work forces to do the same job. The second would be for the out stations. If US wanted to swap a CRJ for a 319 due to demand at a smaller station it would be a hassle due to scope clauses and training issues. If there were no express stations then they could send what ever they wanted where ever they wanted to suit the demand.

If this were to occur there would be problems, but in the long run I think it would benefit the company and the passenger.
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:02 pm

US actually doing a move that would pay all its employees mainline salaries.....I think not. There is no way this is happening.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Thread starter):
If US wanted to swap a CRJ for a 319 due to demand at a smaller station it would be a hassle due to scope clauses and training issues.

There is something in the contract that states that express workers are allowed to operate a couple mainline birds. I can't remember the specifics, but I think you know who can fill us in on that.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:04 pm

US has signed extensive express contracts. There's no way at this point to get out of them.

N
 
InTheSky74
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:04 pm

This would be opposite what all other major airlines are doing. They are switching stations to EXPRESS stations, as they are paid less. They still send mainline aircraft to those stations, but EXPRESS stations run them.

It actually makes more sense this way in terms of cost.

Rob
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:17 pm

I know it sounds crazy but in the end the will save money. I am not talking about the flying side of express but the ground handling. The new "mainline" employees would never see what the current US guys are seeing or have seen in terms of paychecks. All of the people hired after this goes into effect would be a a "B" pay scale (actually a C scale since there all ready is a B scale). So in the long run the company would save money by attrition over the years. If you guys saw the waste in man power on the ramp and in the terminal at the larger stations you would better understand why this is not only possible but probable.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
US has signed extensive express contracts. There's no way at this point to get out of them.

PSA ramp and CSS have not had a contract for almost 5 years so there is no problem there. As for Piedmont they are all none union, both would probably jump at the chance to back few more bucks an hour.
 
Sean-SAN-
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:57 pm

HP already does Mesa ground ops in LAS. If we get the EMB190's, that will lessen the need for express but we still need 50 seat jets for cities like SBP and SBA... and no mainline employee will every be as cheap as a Mesa one.
 
InTheSky74
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:36 pm

It's definitely never going to happen. It's just a dream of Jdwfloyd.

Rob
 
ATWZW170
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:18 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:14 pm

I can't see this happening either. Air Wisconsin is interested in taking over some of the ground handling for the new merged airline. Granted we are not as inexpensive as Mesa but we do put out a good product. Yes, I know ORD and IAD have some bad apples but heck, every airline hub has a few. Look at the outstations that we have, SPI, BMI, ATW, CWA, GRB, MSN BIS, ELP, SBN and so many others...they run very well for being short staffed - thanks to United for cutting even more. I can't speak for certain, but I'm sure that AWAC has it's eyes on Mesa's ground work for HP.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:31 pm

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 3):
This would be opposite what all other major airlines are doing. They are switching stations to EXPRESS stations, as they are paid less.

UA just did the opposite in ORD. They replaced all of the terminal two United Express gate agents with mainline employees in a move to smoothen the operations. Is there really a big difference for ground handling salaries between mainline and express? It is all pretty close to minimum wage unlike pilots and flight attendants. With all of the restructuring going on at US, I would think that the salaries of rampers and gate agents wouldn't be much more than Air Wisconsin or any of the US express subsidiaries.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
InTheSky74
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:32 pm

Well, in large hub operations, they usually uses mainline employees. This also makes it easy to switch employees between mainline & express flights.

But outstations will most likely remain or go to express in smaller markets.

Rob
 
ATWZW170
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:18 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:37 pm

In ORD I feel it was more of a political move....to show the Unions at United that mgmt was trying to save jobs....if express was that bad they would have switched over every hub! UA employees in ORD are making less than AWAC employees.....AWAC in ORD started it's gate agents at $9.75 an hour...UA was at $9.25 I believe....it might have changed since then but I doubt by much. I was just talking to a UA manager who came from AWAC and it doesn't seem to be going very well. Apparently the UA agents are upset that they have to work 4 flights at a time from the F11 gates.....oh, boo hoo. Not only that but why don't most of the gate readers work?? That's because UA never cared much.....just goes to show you that UA treats it's express carriers like scum. There have also been issues on the ramp with UA working express flights in both Term 1 and 2. Now UA is saying they want a 3 man team for every plane....yeah, right....how is that controlling costs?? Needless to say it's not going very well.

But again, this is about US...and I highly doubt that US will get rid of it's express workers. They might sell their wholly owned carriers to make cash, kind of like Delta, but Express will still ground handle.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:15 pm

While an entire drop of express seems unlikely...I can see a simplified structure happening. HP is VERY unhappy with the way Mesa handles the flights at PHX. There have been talks for years about HP taking over the operation (ramp and gates) because YV has major issues with keeping employees and running a smooth operation. The difference in turn time from PHX compared to LAS is amazing...LAS has HP employees and they turn the planes much quicker. It would definetly help ontime perfomance. Many times a plane breaks...they fix it, then there isn't anyone to board or load bags...making the delay worse. I'd be happy to see a switch.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 1):
There is something in the contract that states that express workers are allowed to operate a couple mainline birds. I can't remember the specifics, but I think you know who can fill us in on that.

Evidentally this is true for ABE, where we get 1 A319 mixed in with all the random Express carrier RJ's, Colgan Saabs, and Piedmont DH8's. I surely doubt they keep mainline employees here for that one A319.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 4):
PSA ramp and CSS have not had a contract for almost 5 years so there is no problem there.

I was referring to non-owned providers, like AWAC, Mesa, and Republic. Those companies have already been contracted to provide services.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
UA just did the opposite in ORD.

They had to do something quickly... AWAC handled all the ground ops over there in T2.

N
 
NoBoeingNoGoin
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:28 am

Hey all,
I am a customer service agent in TYS with Piedmont. Someone suggested that our pay would be cut, but I don't think that will happen. Our starting pay is 7.84 an hour. There are people who have been working for Piedmont for 4+ years and make 9.25 an hour. The salary top out is about 12 an hour (that happens after about ten years...) Rumor has it that there will be raises after the merger. As for going mainline, that probably won't happen at TYS. Before 9/11, we were a mainline station, but now, we are only express. Although I am sure that our Mainline furloughees would love the pay difference, I doubt it happen soon. Also considering that TYS is a pilot/fa base for PSA, there isn't much hope for a large change in schedule.
Alex
I am hoping for a LAS flight or even regular EMB-170 service!
 
ca2ohHP
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:14 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:19 am

US will not be dropping the express brand. It has been suggested, however, that US/HP would like to reduce the number of 50 seat aircraft and opt for more 70+ seat aircraft, but no decision has been made.

HP has a love/hate relationship with Mesa, and has even admitted to giving Mesa more than they can chew in PHX, where they will see fewer departures beginning in October when a number of CRJ900 are reallocated to CLT. Regardless, HP has no intention of dropping Mesa and has stated Mesa will continue to be a part of the new USAirways.
 
AZFLYER84
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:38 pm

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:43 am

I live in Phoenix and everytime i fly Express , people seem to complain about express(Mesa). Maybe having mainline employees in PHX would help, but in the smaller stations like SBA, SBP, MRY keeping mesa employees there seems to make more sense. Mesa is very important to the new operation of the new airline. I just see a couple changes, I see the overall mesa routes increasing with the CRJ900 as the flagship.

[Edited 2005-09-23 23:45:45]
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:37 am

What UA did in ORD had nothing to do with smoothing ops or the unions...they did it because, quite simply, UA mainline bid for the contract, and they were the low bidder!
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: US May Get Rid Of Express.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 2):
US has signed extensive express contracts. There's no way at this point to get out of them

When your'e in Bankruptcy protection there is everyway to get out of them.
With the new merger a lot of contracts can be voided and renegotiated with workers...
 Cool
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri

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