UnitedTristar
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Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:36 pm

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...2005-09-23_11-13-54_wen9698_newsml

Very interesting. I wonder who they plan on codesharing with?

-m

 airplane 
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting UnitedTristar (Thread starter):
I wonder who they plan on codesharing with?

I would expect the codeshar partners to be HP and US, as they are Mesa's main partners, and will soon start Hawaii flights. UA might also be a candidate, though they codeshare with Aloha IIRC, and they might not be pleased.
Will be interesting to see whether and how Mesa will be with these flights. Going by the PR, it sounds like they want to operate E70s, or perhaps even E90s for the flights. While those are more efficient than Aloha's 732 and even HA's 717s, but wonder whether they can cope with the typical Hawaiian amouns of luggage.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:52 pm

Good luck.. intra-island Hawaiian flights are not big money makers.
 
stirling
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:54 pm

And they (Mesa) think this is a good idea because?

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Delete this User
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:12 am

In the Honolulu Star Bulletin, it says theya re going to use CRJ-200s.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:34 am

Hey guys

Mesa is looking to operate as an independent airline in the islands starting with 6 CRJ200's which would grow to 12-15 aircraft. Also this could change to CRJ700's or 900's..

VSFT
 
gigneil
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:35 am

What an awful idea. What does make money between the islands is mail, food, and other cargo.

N
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:37 am

Hey guys

For all the info on this check out this link

http://starbulletin.com/2005/09/23/news/index1.html

VSFT
 
SunValley
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:16 am

This is interesting, and I do believe it will force HA & AQ to have a
"come to Jesus meeting" about a possible merger again.
AQ's interisland revenue cannot suffer any more without something drastic happening.
 
vfw614
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:14 am

CR200s - what a bad idea from every angle you look at it....
 
ATWZW170
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:20 am

Hey, it's Mesa....what can you expect? And no doubt they will still pay their crews crap so they have to live 20 to a crash pad. I understand the desire to be your "own" airline...but come on....there is a reason there isn't a TON of carriers flying inter-island. Oh well...maybe we will all have egg on our face....or maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and Mesa goes away!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
ATWZW170
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:24 am

"On the regional side, our people are very well compensated," Ornstein said

That taken from the article....any Mesa employee's care to comment on how "very well compensated" you actually are?

This guys is a JOKE!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
ikramerica
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
And they (Mesa) think this is a good idea because?

Well, if there is some sort of "cost plus" contract with US/HP airline, then why not?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:29 am

If they don't pay their crews well, the cost of living in Hawai'i is going to make it very hard for them to attract crews, especially with Hawai'i's unemployment hovering BELOW 3% (2.6% last I heard). Remember that FULL EMPLOYMENT is estimated to lie somewhere between 4% and 5%.

Also, doesn't the CRJ perform poorly on short, frequent flights?

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting Aloha73g (Reply 13):
Also, doesn't the CRJ perform poorly on short, frequent flights?

Well, Delta or FlyI might be able to answer that question  Wink .
Now, having heard/read that Mesa will use CR2s for these flights, I have even more doubt that this will be successful, as the CRJ obviously cannot compete with the mainline planes with regards to cargo. And if Mesa is trying to attract passengers with low fares, well, you know the deal with FlyI.
 
GOAQ
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:47 am

Well, Now there are going to be 5 inter-island airlines. Aloha, Hawaiian, Island Air, FlyHawaii (which plans to start sometime in 2006 too) and now Mesa. Good luck to Mesa. Give them credit for trying. You never know, it may just work, this time.......  box 
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
wonder whether they can cope with the typical Hawaiian amouns of luggage.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
What an awful idea. What does make money between the islands is mail, food, and other cargo.

Yep, local inter-island travelers don't just carry one suitcase.


If they are bringing crews and staffing from the mainland, they'd better learn the "Aloha Spirit" like yesterday, otherwise they'll be gone as soon as they arrived. The state of Hawaii is a close community, and word-of-mouth referrals are very strong. Mesa can advertise all they want, but if their service sucks, or not even come close to AQ, HA, and WP, nothing will be able to save them. Cheaper fares may play a part, but it'll only last for so long.

Where will they get gate space? Could the inter-island terminal handle a third player? MidPacific and Mahalo used the Commuter terminal ... Guess they'll have to fly out of the commuter terminal @ HNL.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 16):
Where will they get gate space? Could the inter-island terminal handle a third player? MidPacific and Mahalo used the Commuter terminal ... Guess they'll have to fly out of the commuter terminal @ HNL.

Island Air is using a good chunk of the commuter terminal...I am not sure if there would be room anymore, especially with WP expanding. I don't think is going to go well for Mesa, if it happens at all.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:02 am

This idea is insane. The market is covered by HA and AQ and they won't sit idle as Mesa attempts to move in on their turf. In addition if Mesa tries to capitalize on their relationship with HP/US, how much feed could the new HP flights to Hawaii possibly provide? Aren't the also flying to OGG? One or two 757's from the mainland is hardly a large enough flow of transfer passengers to fill Mesa's dorky little RJ's.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:12 am

FlyHawaii is also starting next year. There will be too much capacity in a low-yeild market.

I hope Mesa gets chased right out of the islands by the others. But I don't know if we'll see a HA/AQ merger anytime soon. It's gonna be interesting though to watch Mesa and FlyHawaii fight it out. One or the other, or both, won't come out of this alive. At least in the Hawaiian market.

Mesa should stick to the mainland.
 
as739x
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:14 am

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb


Typical Mesa!

ASSFO
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PITrules
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:19 am

Here's my favorite Ornstein quote from the article:

"We're not going to try to fly trans-Pacific, which doesn't work."

Trans-Pacific doesn't work? I guess that means both Hawaiian and Aloha are wrong by decreasing inter-island flights and increasing service to the Mainland.
FLYi
 
vsmike
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting GOAQ (Reply 15):
Well, Now there are going to be 5 inter-island airlines. Aloha, Hawaiian, Island Air, FlyHawaii (which plans to start sometime in 2006 too) and now Mesa.

Mesa will own & operate FlyHawaii (one in the same), so it will be just 4 intra-island carriers.
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
SLUAviator
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:26 am

Mesa crews are well compensated..... when you compare them to the likes of GoJets.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
HNL
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting VSMike (Reply 22):
Mesa will own & operate FlyHawaii (one in the same), so it will be just 4 intra-island carriers.

where did you read/hear that? I was under the impression the were separate and distinct airlines.
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
vsmike
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting HNL (Reply 24):
where did you read/hear that? I was under the impression the were separate and distinct airlines.

I would love to tell you, but it would be a breach of confidentiality. You can take my word on it, or not. Sorry.
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
Brick
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:44 am

If they use CRJ's, where are they going to maintain them? They gonna fill the cabin with fuel tanks to ferry to the US mainland every time these things need maintenance?
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
irelayer
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:01 am

Sounds like another Independence Air fiasco to me...

-IR
 
bigtidi
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:09 am

If you know anything about Mesa Airlines you know that despite all the shortcommings on employee relations their management team is top notch. While this is a strange announcement, especially the fact that CRJ-200's are mentioned, I would suspect more to come. At Mesa's cost structure the CRJ-900's would be a very efficient interisland aircraft, I suspect very close to that of Hawaiian/Aloah's operations...
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:37 am

Could this all be Mesa's way of trying to find a spot for the CRJ-200's that US denied... thinking that since they still have lease payments (presumably) even if this project barely breaks even/small loss it's still cheaper than paying some type of termination fees on the leases?? Just throwing an idea into the wind here, folks, so take it easy if I'm entirely wrong.
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:41 am

Hey Tornado

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 29):
Could this all be Mesa's way of trying to find a spot for the CRJ-200's that US denied...

The Aircraft that Mesa was using for USAirways are being split between the new DL contract and expanding the UA contract. There are planes being painted in both UA and DL colours as we speak. So I dont think "trying to find a spot" has anything to do with this.

The link above also mentions 700's and 900's being used down the road and these aircraft would be new to Mesa.

VSFT
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting VSFullThrottle (Reply 30):
900's being used down the road and these aircraft would be new to Mesa.

I thought Mesa run's HP's 900's and US's 700's both currently?
 
drewwright
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:50 am

FYI the Delta contract is in the air right now. Delta has revised it aircraft commitment from Mesa down to 9 aircraft from 30. Maybe Mesa is doing this hair brained thing as a Plan B.

Drw
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:51 am

Tornado

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 31):
I thought Mesa run's HP's 900's and US's 700's both currently?

Mesa operates CRJ200/700/900's and Dash 8's for HP, CRJ200/ERJ145's for US and CRJ200/700's and Dash 8's for UA.

The 900's that would go to Hawaii (if they decied to send them there) would be newly acquired to Mesa, from my understanding.

VSFT
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 29):
Could this all be Mesa's way of trying to find a spot for the CRJ-200's that US denied... thinking that since they still have lease payments (presumably) even if this project barely breaks even/small loss it's still cheaper than paying some type of termination fees on the leases??

This operation is going to cost $$$ to set up. Crews will have to be based in Hawaii, or commute which will be an expense either way, especially if they use new hire F/As b/c not enough of their current F/As want to transfer.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting VSFullThrottle (Reply 33):
The 900's that would go to Hawaii (if they decied to send them there) would be newly acquired to Mesa, from my understanding.

Oh ok, I misunderstood you. Thought you were saying that Mesa doesn't run -700's, -900's, at all in the system. Sorry about that!!
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 35):
Oh ok, I misunderstood you. Thought you were saying that Mesa doesn't run -700's, -900's, at all in the system. Sorry about that!!

No probs mate, its all good.

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 32):
FYI the Delta contract is in the air right now. Delta has revised it aircraft commitment from Mesa down to 9 aircraft from 30

Where did you get that info from?
 
bigtidi
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:01 am

The Delta contract has not been revised downward. It remains at 30 aircraft, ERJ-145's, based in MCO to start out. If anything I would bet this contract will pick up some rapid growth as Delta looks to make their regional operations competitive with the rest of the industry. Wait and see...
 
LAXintl
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:07 am

Hawaii is a unique market were Mesa Air could very well make money using CRJ's.

Due to the relative high fare structure in Hawaii and very short stage lengths, an efficient airline like Mesa with CASM of mere 12cents can successfully operate.

Even if the airline undercut current fares by 50% and launches a SWA like $39 fares on all routes, it can derive acceptable yields in the near 40cent range for shorter hops like to OGG and LIH and 24cents for longrt legs to ITO and KOA.

Accordingly Mesa, even with low load factors should turn a profit on a Hawaii operation.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Arrow
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:44 am

Whatever happened to Island Air's plan to take on a Q400 and use it for interisland? I would think that with oil prices in the $60-70/bbl range, Island would be able to signifcantly undercut just about anyone flying any kind of jet on those routes -- especially CRJs. I doubt that there's a route in the islands that a jet could fly faster than a Q400.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting VSFullThrottle (Reply 33):
Mesa operates CRJ200/700/900's and Dash 8's for HP, CRJ200/ERJ145's for US and CRJ200/700's and Dash 8's for UA.

IIRC, all of Mesa's CR7s are currently flying for UA and were pulled out of HP. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that.
 
fokkerf28
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:17 am

Kudos to Mesa!! I do believe that they can make a profit. They will have guaranteed revenue from HP/US AIR flying into Hawaii and with the cost per seat mile of an RJ competing with the 717 and 737 plus the cost structure of Mesa no doubt will rock the boat.
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 40):
IIRC, all of Mesa's CR7s are currently flying for UA and were pulled out of HP. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that

My mistake, you are right HP does only operate CRJ200/900's and Dash 8's for HP.

VSFT
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Fokkerf28 (Reply 41):
and with the cost per seat mile of an RJ competing with the 717 and 737

Say what?
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:34 am

There's no chance in hell Mesa could even get close to the operating cost of a 717 with any RJ. Maybe an E190, but that's it...
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:14 am

WP will still get their 3 Q400s. The 1st one scheduled to enter service around November.

Maintenance base: YX has yet to secure ramp space on the Lagoon Drive side for a hangar, on top of building a facility. Would it be cheaper to ferry CRJs to the mainland?
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
phoenixX2
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:48 am

20 new 900s are coming into the MESA fleet, now I know where they are going, or at least some of them. AQ will be going away..... they have nothing to bring to the table for HA. MESA will probably sign with STAR ALLIANCE and feed the Inter Island operation to US (HP), UA and any oterh STAR service from Asia or South Pacific. Maybe fly as US Express. You know US (HP) has something to do with this. Well US lovers you wanted US service to the islands, well you are really going to get it.

Rgds
 
SunValley
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:52 am

Mesa is not looking to do maintenance in HNL. They are looking at Hilo, and are applying for grants to start an aviation maintenance program at Hawaii Community College in Hilo. (similar to what they do at ASU & San Juan College)
 
B744F
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:55 am

So Fly Hawaii is not a startup company but owned by Mesa? When did this happen?
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Mesa To Start Inter Island Hawaiian Airline

Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:04 am

Let me see if I understand what's going on.
Hawaiian flys between the islands.
Hawaiian goes chapter 11.
Aloha flys between the islands.
Aloha goes chapter 11.
Mesa wants to fly between the islands.
Ok, I got that.  confused 
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