USAF757300
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Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:57 am

I was wondering, is there any possibilities of new USA- Munich routes in the works? I hear UA is doing very well with IAD-MUC, and ORD-MUC routes. And LH is making money on most of their routes from the US to MUC (such as LAX, ORD, CLT, JFK, BOS-MUC). What about a new USairways PHX-MUC, or even LH. Maybe a NWA DTW-MUC. Or Delta adding a JFK-MUC.

What are your thoughts?
 
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B742
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:01 am

I think the most possible route is a EWR-MUC route with CO!

Also I think DL could make a profitable JFK-MUC route!

DL and CO seem to be adding new routes recently to Europe!  Smile

Rob!  Smile
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BDKLEZ
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
DL and CO seem to be adding new routes recently to Europe!

Even to just the UK only, CO now have..

EWR - LGW/MAN/BFS/BRS/BHX/EDI/GLA & CLE - LGW

..with numerous more throughout Europe. Bur particularly in the UK there has been a massive expansion into what would normally be considered more regional/domestic airports.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
vega
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:27 am

Quoting USAF757300 (Thread starter):
What about a new USairways PHX-MUC, or even LH

Probably not at least until US gets a 350 (or 787). The best possibility and also a long shot is for the current PHL-MUC flight to be extended to originate in PHX. If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.
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panam330
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.

They already did. And dropped it. The only chance of another long haul route out of PHX would be if either a) BA dropped LHR (not happening, IMO), or b) US/LH started it after PHX was a fully-operating hub under the US Airways name, which won't be for another couple years at least. So it'll be awhile before PHX sees a non-stop to Germany.

As for other possible routes, most feasible ones are in operation today. The only possible routes I see coming would be AA JFK-DUS (have they announced it, or postponed... anything?), maybe CO from EWR-MUC or (a long shot here) a re-launch of EWR-DUS.
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Also I think DL could make a profitable JFK-MUC route!

I hope it, in the past they had problems to make money on the route ... due this they axed it.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting USAF757300 (Thread starter):
Maybe a NWA DTW-MUC

this service is since long a rumor... but now theare are with Ch.11.... who knows.... It would be great.

I think AA could start soon a daily B767-300 from DFW and or JFK.

regards
Avianca

[Edited 2005-09-25 03:44:53]
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
A342
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:56 pm

My bets are on DEN, with UA. Kepp in mind that their MUC-IAD flight continues on to DEN. They use a daily 772 and I guess quite a few pax are flying MUC-FRA-DEN on LH in order to avoid the crappy transit procedure in the USA. So if LH would cut back FRA-DEN from a 346 to a 343 (both daily), UA should be able to fill a daily 763 on MUC-DEN.
Are there any UA 763 based at DEN ? From what I´ve seen on the FRA-DEN schedule, a single aircraft is enough to fly MUC-DEN daily.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
My bets are on DEN, with UA

also good possible, for summer 2006 or summer 2007. I do not know if a longhaul B767 is based in DEN, if not also not a problem as they could use IAD based B767, and put them just on a IAD-DEN flight to give the B767 the position in DEN... On the other hand, it is also good possible that LH will operate the route with a A340-300... we will see.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:14 am

regarding new LH flights. I hope they will upgrade the EWR service from B737 to an A-330/340.

Also a new LH destination could be DTW and or IAH/DFW....

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
USAF757300
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:24 am

Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time? I would really like to see NWA start up DTW-MUC, I think that they could go quite well with it too.

Thats just my 2 cents however.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:32 am

I expected US to upgrade their PHL service to an A330, but it doesn't seem to have happened. There are a lot of flights to the US East Coast now, Washington is not that far from Philly either. I always thought a MUC-YYC Calgary flight might do OK a few times a week?

Regards

Mike
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 10):
Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time?

this flights is also on my wish list..but I see firstly a DFW flight...
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DLKAPA
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:05 am

Look for DEN-MUC on LH to be started next year, probably A333, possibly A343 but I doubt it unless they cut the FRA flight from 744 Summer A346 Winter to A346 Summer A343 Winter. The city of Denver and Lufthansa have been in talks for awhile to get the flight started.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:29 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 13):
but I doubt it unless they cut the FRA flight from 744 Summer A346 Winter to A346 Summer A343 Winter

I think they will downgrade the FRA service as you mentioned... in favour of a MUC flight. The free 744 they could use for other high density routes like FRA-CCS or FRA-GRU-SCL

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
USAF757300
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:40 am

Maybe a DL CVG-MUC daily with a 767-300 could work too? It would be a nice compliment with the daily ATL-MUC. I heard somewhere that DL used to have 2x daily ATL-MUC with a 763? Can anyone conferm this??
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 15):
Maybe a DL CVG-MUC daily with a 767-300 could work too? It would be a nice compliment with the daily ATL-MUC. I heard somewhere that DL used to have 2x daily ATL-MUC with a 763? Can anyone conferm this??

yes they had last year in summer double dailys into MUC from ATL...

regarding CVG-MUC, well they had in the past a CVG-MUC flight (great days every day DL had 3 aircrafts at the same time in MUC... In the moment I do not think a flight from CVG would work as they are downgrading the CVG hub in the moment... sadly.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:01 am

Munich being a Star hub, pretty much eliminates or restricts other airlines from launching service to the city unless the potential carrier can survive off O&D traffic and feed via its own US hub.

Germany in general due to Lufthansa market strenght has been a difficult to crack for non Star airlines in the last several years. Delta and Continental for instance have avoided FRA and MUC and instead prefer to grow service from secondary German cities like TXL, HAM, STR, DUS avoiding the LH mega hubs.
AA on the other seem to shy away from Germany having actualy reduced their capacity compared to what they offered several years ago.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
USAF757300
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:03 am

I am thinking of traveling to MUC in March of `06. I would really like to take LH from LAX, or CLT. But will probably end up flying UAL from PHX-IAD-MUC, but at least Ill get a T7. I cannot wait to see Germany and the spotting I hear is great at MUC.

Avianca:
I agree, you make a good point about the downsizing of CVG, I totally forgot about that. I dont think DL will be expanding anywhere any time soon anyways.
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
Delta and Continental for instance have avoided FRA and MUC

I would not say that Delta avoid FRA. At least they still have 3 x daily B767 and 1 x daily 777.

1x767 FRA-JFK
1x767 FRA-CVG
1x767 FRA-ATL
1x777 FRA-ATL

that is really not bad... of course not the same like years ago when they had nonstop flights to IAD,MCO,LAX etc... but do not forget DL main hub in Europe is the Sky Hub in CDG.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
Quoting USAF757300 (Reply 10):
Could we maybe see another go at a MIA-MUC on AA this time?

this flights is also on my wish list..but I see firstly a DFW flight...

AA perfers routing Europe flights through Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. MIA-MUC would probably start before DFW-MUC did. LTU flies MIA-MUC year-round, but there is room for another carrier. I don't see AA doing it, though, nor DFW-MUC.
a.
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
AA perfers routing Europe flights through Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. MIA-MUC would probably start before DFW-MUC did. LTU flies MIA-MUC year-round, but there is room for another carrier. I don't see AA doing it, though, nor DFW-MUC.

what I heard locally from german AA clerks DFW-MUC would start before...if they launch a MUC service.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
supa7E7
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:27 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4):
. The only chance of another long haul route out of PHX would be if either a) BA dropped LHR (not happening, IMO), or b) US/LH started it after PHX was a fully-operating hub under the US Airways name, which won't be for another couple years at least.

Um actually, in a couple of _weeks_, not years, PHX will be a fully operating hub under the US Airways name. IMO that opens the door to LH flights almost immediately.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 11):
I expected US to upgrade their PHL service to an A330, but it doesn't seem to have happened.

The world is a vast mysterious place indeed. But your expectation was realized temporarily for the month of September. Check the flight schedules.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
bartond
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:19 pm

I think that AA should switch their DFW-FRA flight to MUC anyways. DFW and MUC are both pretty large tech centers so the business traffic would make sense on that route, plus I would think that more travelers from the US are interested in flying to Bavaria than to the Frankfurt area.
 
N1120A
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 3):
If LH felt there was sufficient O&D out of PHX for a non-stop to Germany, they would likely start a FRA route first with a possible US code share.

Um, LH did fly the route and couldn't even make it work with a 763ER

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
UA should be able to fill a daily 763 on MUC-DEN.

It would have a hard time making it on hot days from DEN
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A342
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:44 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
It would have a hard time making it on hot days from DEN

With the longest runway being 4800 meters I highly doubt you´re right.
But yes, DEN is a hot-and-high airport.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:47 pm

Quoting USAF757300 (Thread starter):
And LH is making money on most of their routes from the US to MUC (such as LAX, ORD, CLT, JFK, BOS-MUC).

It would be nice if BA could take a leaf out of Lufthansa's book and operate similar number of long haul routes from an alternative to London. As Lufthansa does away from their Frankfurt base.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:09 pm

i think MUC-DEN is pretty high on the agenda. it was contemplated before but then LH decided in favor of MUC-YUL.
i also think that a service such as MUC-SEA could be seriously considered in the near future. other than that, it is probably just a question of time until other "FRA-only" destinations (speaking of LH) such as DTW, DFW, IAH are inaugurated from MUC.

rgds
daniel
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TomFoolery
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:59 pm

Last I checked there is also a LH flight between MUC and IAD, in addition to the UA 902/903. LH would probably do well with a flight to PHX, as it is now a Star Alliance hub, making more complimentry connections.
The MUC-PHL flight on US needs 2 improvements:
Aircraft- get the old 762 updated. Technical problems with IFE and toilets- not everyone wants to carry around a laptop just for entertainment on a flt.
Cabin crew- They should be better versed in foreign language as a whole, not just one or two out of the bunch.

IIRC LTU operates a flight to Florida, and at one time I thought it was to MIA and TPA alternating, but alot of the charters change their schedules quite often.

DL has the misfortune or the fortune of being the only US bound Skyteam member at MUC, but that can limit many connections in Europe.

AA cold be a very good compliment to MUC with Oneworld and thus avoiding a LHR connection by swapping it with a equally inconvenient conntction in the US.

Dont forget- FRA is a financial powerhouse of Europe- Not just vacationers. Also a great connection to Asia and the Middle East.
Tom
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
flymunich
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:05 pm

Next year we can see another United-Flight (3rd) in Munich to SFO.
Lufthansa add two new destinations in USA, Denver and Phönix from Munich.

That's all for 2006!!
 
BigOrange
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:00 am

I would like to see LH start a service from MUC-PHL, either instead of or alongside US.

Our company could utilize this instead of going to JFK. (I know there is a MUC-EWR, but we have a company policy of no more than 3 people per flight, and we often have 20 people traveling at a time)
 
Avianca
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RE: Possible US-MUC Transatlantic Routes.

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Bartond (Reply 23):
I think that AA should switch their DFW-FRA flight to MUC anyways. DFW and MUC are both pretty large tech centers so the business traffic would make sense on that route, plus I would think that more travelers from the US are interested in flying to Bavaria than to the Frankfurt area.

I do not think they should swith the fligh to MUC as AA is established in Frankfurt + they have very good cargoloads... almost full every day + they are transporting a big part of the german and us mail on the route.

they should add MUC and serve them with a 767-300

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 30):
I know there is a MUC-EWR,

they have also a daily MUC-JFK flight.


regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia

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