JoKeR
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Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:52 pm

A friend asked me a question to which I had no answer. Although I know that the upper decks on Cargo 747’s are used as crew rest areas, are/were there any operators that sold commercial seats "upstairs"?
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vunz
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:05 pm

I'm not sure about having seat capacity on the upper deck on 74F's, but some cargo flights take passengers. Like LY1862 that crashed in Amsterdam back in '92. That one had a passenger on board, must have been seating somewhere, although it could have been the jump seat.
 
ktachiya
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:11 pm

I know that NCA and JALCARGO's planes have pax seats on the second floor. But these are reserved for ppl who are taking their horses (for races, cars for races, etc) to a foreign destination. Not any single normal passenger can buy a seat on these planes unless they have something extremely important for them in the plane.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
FlySSC
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting Vunz (Reply 1):
although it could have been the jump seat.

This PAX was LY staff, travelling on a Jumpseat.

It don't think it would be allowed to have regular PAX at the upper deck and Cargo only on the main deck. And I am not sure it would be very profitable either!
The maximum decent capacity at the upper deck on a B747-200 is 27/30 PAX in a single Y config.
It would of course require a F/A.
Moreover, the emergency evacuation procedure at the upper deck of a B742 requires the PAX to go down to the main deck and leave the plane throught one of the main doors.
The upper deck exits must be used only if it is really impossible to reach the main deck for evacuation.
In a case of evacuation on water, you can not use the exits at the upper deck.
So quid if you have only Cargo on the main deck ?
 
Avianca
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:52 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 2):
I know that NCA and JALCARGO's planes have pax seats on the second floor.

but the seats are on pallets and only used and loaded when they need the seats...

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
It don't think it would be allowed to have regular PAX at the upper deck and Cargo only on the main deck.

well at least the airlines do not sell the seats, but many cargo airlines offers the free seats in the upper deck (mostly they have at least 6 to 8 seats) as non-rev to there clerks...

regards
Avianca
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FlySSC
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:22 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
well at least the airlines do not sell the seats, but many cargo airlines offers the free seats in the upper deck (mostly they have at least 6 to 8 seats) as non-rev to there clerks...

Of course, the seats upstair in the B747F are used sometimes as jumpseat for non-rev PAX.
I flew back BKK-CDG on board an AF's B747F on one of those seats few years ago.
Talking about AF, the airline is going to start next year the conversion into full Freighters of 2 of the B747-400 PAX (ex-Combi).
19 seats should be installed at the upper deck ... It's just enough to carry quite a few non-rev PAX without a F/A ....
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:29 pm

I am certain that years ago Seaboard World ( who were later absorbed into Flying Tigers which in turn disappeared into FedEx) did sell seats on the upper deck of its 747F - does anybody with a better memory than me remember this ?
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:40 pm

CargoLux used to but not sure since 9/11.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
JoKeR
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:49 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 7):
CargoLux used to but not sure since 9/11.

A brief search revealed that they had a "J" class on the upper decks of their old B747-200F's.
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Euclid
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:51 pm

I also seem to recall that Hydro Air Cargo sold pax seats on their converted 747 freighter, but I may be wrong. They operated mostly or exclusively from South Africa to Belgium until the aircraft was damaged in a landing incident at Lagos. The last that I saw of this plane it was still parked at Lagos covered in a thick layer of dust.

[Edited 2005-09-27 13:52:33]
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:11 pm

The answer for regular passengers is no. Only couriers, airline staff, deadheaders, etc.

The most obvious reason why the answer is no is that the cockpit door on freighters is not reinforced, so the entire upper deck is considered essentially the flight deck. Here in the U.S., that means no paying passengers.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 8):
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 7):
CargoLux used to but not sure since 9/11.

A brief search revealed that they had a "J" class on the upper decks of their old B747-200F's.

I think that if you are the owner of some ( or all ) of the cargo on board the plane on Carlux , You can e-mail them and ask to travel with your lugguage and although you have to go through vigorus secrurity tests ( no criminal records etc) If the capitain of the flight your cargo is on gives the nod of the head, you can get one of the seats on the upper deck.
Now i'm off to transport some cargo from Luxor to .... somewhere i guess  Wink

Wrighbrothers
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Avianca
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 7):
CargoLux used to but not sure since 9/11.



Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 11):
I think that if you are the owner of some ( or all ) of the cargo on board the plane on Carlux , You can e-mail them and ask to travel with your lugguage and although you have to go through vigorus secrurity tests ( no criminal records etc) If the capitain of the flight your cargo is on gives the nod of the head, you can get one of the seats on the upper deck.
Now i'm off to transport some cargo from Luxor to .... somewhere i guess

yes as I know Cargolux still offers this on flights...

same goes for LH (at least on the B747 operated by AirAtlanta), as the MD11f has only 2 seats if I am correct.



regards
Avianca

[Edited 2005-09-27 22:20:44]
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wrighbrothers
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
yes as I know Cargolux still offers this on flights...

same goes for LH (at least on the B747 operated by AirAtlanta), as the MD11f cas only 2 seats if I am correct.

Thanks  Smile

Wrighbrothers
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Starlionblue
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
19 seats should be installed at the upper deck ... It's just enough to carry quite a few non-rev PAX without a F/A

I get the feeling they have to have an F/A for safety reasons once they get over 20 pax or so.
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airbuseric
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 2):
I know that NCA and JALCARGO's planes have pax seats on the second floor.

but the seats are on pallets and only used and loaded when they need the seats...

Not true... in fact most JL freighter have only 3 Y-class seats (1 row) on upperdeck. On the -200F series only JA8161/69/93 have C-class seats installed (total 6 seats)
The new -400F have also 6 C-class seats installed on upperdeck. Although no PTV's  eyebrow 

btw, passengers on board are either the companies own staff and/or dead-head crew. IF "normal" pax are onboard, they are to accompany a cargo shipment which is loaded on the maindeck only! Cargo loaded on the lowerdeck on a cargo aircraft is usually not accompanied.
Second point of notice is the transport of some dangerous goods, which are that high risk, that they're only allowed for transportation on full freighter/cargo aircraft. In case of "normal" pax/cargo attendant the aircraft is not cargo anymore, but pax aircraft (!). And therefore the dangerous goods are not allowed on board anymore.
When the companies own staff is on the flight, or deadhead crew, this rule does not apply.

Hope this helps you out a little,
Eric
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FlySSC
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
I get the feeling they have to have an F/A for safety reasons once they get over 20 pax or so.

Right.

0 to 19 PAX = No F/A needed
20 to 50 PAX = 1 F/A needed
51 to 60 PAX = 2 F/A needed

The B742 is certified for a maximum of 32 PAX at the upper deck
The B743 & B744 are certified for a miximum of 110 PAX at the upper deck.
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: Any 74F Operators Offering Pax Service Upstairs?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:28 am

I remember seeing a docmentary about a guy exporting prized cows from New Zealand to China on an SQ747. The interesting thing was that if he went back to check on his beef-burgers-to-be on the main deck, he had to carry portable oxygen with him in case of loss of pressure.