legacytravel
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:05 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:57 am

I have a email here from a friend at NWA in MKe that states that NWA is outsourcing 30,000 jobs and the rest are taking a $5.00 across the board paycut. NWA will only have eemployees at MSP, DTW, MEM. I left this persons name off of the email to protect his identity.

Today Northwest Airlines announced that they will be laying off or transferring 30,000 Employees Doug Steenland wants to cut Nw spending buy ruffly 40% so he is getting ride off all employees in the U.S. excluding these Airports Msp,Dtw,and Mem Nw gave it's Employees one of 2 option transfer to hub or get layed off. Ramp pay was cut by about 5.00$ Northwest is hiring a company to run all U.S. airports excluding the ones I've stated. This means many families including my own are moving to Tennessee,Michigan,Minnesota, or a foreign Country. the date for the employees decision id ruffly June 30th I have not heard what will happen to then rest of the good people here at Northwest but I will update as soon as I can

and could you add all of us here at Northwest Milwaukee would like to thank the fine people here at Northwest for their hard work and high spirits and may God be with you

Mark email me and I'll try to provide you with more info about this devastating day in Nw history .

I wish nothing but the best for the affected families.

Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
UAL Bagsmasher
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:52 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:06 am

If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum. As long as the shareholders reap their bounty, and the "executives" get their golden parachutes, all is right with the world...
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6580
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:16 am

Hrmm, i'm somewhat skeptical about this. I don't doubt that NW would do something like this, but if it was announced today, why are there no news sources reporting it? There's nothing on RADAR about it. What time was this allegedly announced?
Made from jets!
 
legacytravel
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:05 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 1):
If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum. As long as the shareholders reap their bounty, and the "executives" get their golden parachutes, all is right with the world...

I agree with you in this case UAL bagsmasher. While I agree with getting rid of AMFA. I totally disagree with this move. I for one will not fly NWA again. I hope that they just go away. ALA Eastern or Pan Am. (nothing against the level headed and hard working employees at NWA.
Also keep in mind that I am taking his word that this email is legit and not a fraud. I have known him for awhile and he has never screwed around with me.
UAL I will be flying with UA in the couple of weeks to vegas.

Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
legacytravel
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:05 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:24 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):
There's nothing on RADAR about it. What time was this allegedly announced?

I go the email about a hour ago. All I have is the email and the fact that I can trust my source.
I was asked to post this for him. So as a courtesy I did post this.
Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:34 am

why would anyone transferer to a hub......i think at that point its safe to say ..enroll/ in job retraining programs in your local towns....dont drink Koolaid and move to MEM or DTW


I am kinda hoping NW goes away at this point.....The have quickly become a huge nuisance to their employees, customers and their communities....really no more need for the a==holes....( Oh but your right,,their brilliant officers have the best parachutes,,so they must be enticed to stick around!!)
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:44 am

Although this is bad for the NW employees, I havn't heard any better ideas to get NW profitable again. When I found out that pre-AMFA Strike airplane cleaners were making 45K a year, I knew they had serious labor problems.

All I ask, and have always asked for (and never really recieved on this message board) is a better plan to save NW without having to do things like this.

Everyone wants to bash NW, but nobody has any real answer to a "better way" of doing it.

Sad day for the employees. However, it is a sign that NW is actually going to be around for a while.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:53 am

What a load of hooey! While I believe that EVENTUALLY - perhaps 20 years from now - you'll see legacy carriers outsourcing their above-the-wing services at smaller stations and only having their own employees at hubs and focus cities, the scenario outlined in this email is FAR too aggressive, even for NW.

And frankly, it won't work. Can you imagine telling 30,000 employees they can transfer to the hubs and exercise bumping rights? The coordination of such an undertaking would be so completely overwhelming that NW would easily spend a few years getting it done - during which time the inevitable service disruptions would tarnish them severely.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
hammer
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:02 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
When I found out that pre-AMFA Strike airplane cleaners were making 45K a year, I knew they had serious labor problems.

Actually it was about 42k a year.....sorry, had to throw it in there
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:06 am

Related news

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/12757090.htm

http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0509/27/01-329688.htm


I would say that that is a wish list of the full threats NW will use to unions.

They will want full speed despite how very little time and importance they alloted for negotiations in the last year. On average only 6 days a month were given to IAM leading up to the BK filing.

And we have been getting rumors about the hubs only scheme for awhile. I'm sure they will pattern it after what DL uses by starting their own 3rd party contractors like Delta Ground Services. 20 years - I wish Closer to 20 months

[Edited 2005-09-28 04:09:25]

[Edited 2005-09-28 04:12:42]
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
azstar
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:13 am

It could be true. Remember, this is a brutal company which will spend millions flying unprofitable routes to keep competition out of its territory(e.g. daily Airbus FAR-LAS in response to Allegiant twice weekly service), and to intimidate its workforce, regardless of monetary cost.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 5):
I am kinda hoping NW goes away at this point.....The have quickly become a huge nuisance to their employees, customers and their communities....really no more need for the a==holes



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 3):
I for one will not fly NWA again. I hope that they just go away.

By "going away" I assume you mean go under? That will do the employees a lot of good won't it. I'm sure transfering to a handling company at their place of work would be preferable to most employees than being layed of because their company goes under. And I'm sure that if everyone took the view that they are not going to fly NWA again then NWA is likely to go under even quicker!
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:21 am

One reason I find this so hard to believe -- cutting *thirty thousand* jobs -- is that outsourcing agreements in some cases can actually be more expensive than keeping the work in-house. After all, the source firms have the same fixed costs that NWA would have in employing such large masses of people -- and they, like NWA (arguably), are in business to make a profit.

So like many others, I'll believe this one when it's a press release from NWA or when I read it in a reputable paper.
 
commavia
Posts: 9741
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 1):
If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum.

Sorry, but I don't think its heartless, but rather realistic, that non-hub ramping is no longer a vital inhouse function for most airlines. That's reality, and I don't understand why you find it so personal. The reality is that airlines simply must be cost competitive. People continue to act as if the greedy, evil management are just firing everybody, exacting huge wage cuts, and then pocketing it for themselves. Now, granted -- UAL Bagmasher -- I'm not going to argue that there are some greedy CEOs in this industry who have definitely done their share of mooching off of their employers over the years, but in today's day and age -- this is simply the way the market is going. Customers are telling airlines again and again that it's all about price, price, and price. And this comes at a time when fuel costs are at an all-time high. When that is the way consumers (and the market) are behaving, there's only so many places the airline can cut before it has to cut people. It's terrible, it's painful and it is extremely unfortunate. Believe me -- I sympathize with all the people who may get laid off at DL, NW and elswhere. But again, the market has basically determined for the airlines (no, it really isn't their choice, it's the customers') that ramp people in non-hub stations are pretty much not worth their salaries anymore and thus need to be outsourced to keep costs low. It's harsh, I know, but that is the way the market is moving.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
What a load of hooey! While I believe that EVENTUALLY - perhaps 20 years from now - you'll see legacy carriers outsourcing their above-the-wing services at smaller stations and only having their own employees at hubs and focus cities, the scenario outlined in this email is FAR too aggressive, even for NW.

Agree completely. I do firmly believe that maybe 10-20 years from now, airlines will no longer do below-wing (and maybe above-wing) stuff in-house at non-hub (or at least non-major operation) stations. However, I don't think any airline is moving that way in the near future, including NW.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting Gnomon (Reply 13):
After all, the source firms have the same fixed costs that NWA would have in employing such large masses of people

However, by having a local handling company doing your ground work, it introduces competitive tendering into the equation. It's not a nice process for any company to go through, but it is the way forward for airlines who need to reduce their costs. It was done by bmi in the UK in 2000, when about a third of employees were outsourced to Aviance. The idea is that the ground handling companies can reduce costs through economies of scale, offering their services to more than one airline and therefore more efficiently using their resources, and then passing these savings on to the airlines by lowering handling costs, something that airlines on their own cannot manage.

I do admit though that in bmi's case it was a lot easier because the numbers were smaller, and it did result in nasty strike action in Dublin. The logisitcs of outsourcing 30,000 staff would be a nightmare!
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 15):
then passing these savings on to the airlines by lowering handling costs, something that airlines on their own cannot manage.

That's a good point. I'm still doubtful because, as you say, outsourcing 30,000 would be an utter nightmare. But we'll see -- clearly these outsourcing firms have been successful in some instances.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:39 am

30,000 people affected? This is now causing me to rethink my deep allegiance to Northwest Airlines. This is not the way put the company back on track to a profitable future. I have three trips confirmed on NW and a slug of miles socked away. I am in the process of booking an OCT trip to South Carolina. I was caught between NW, CO and DL. With this news, NW was eliminated.
I just hope this is a rumor because if I should read about this change in personal in tomorrows paper, I will send letters to the NW board objecting to the path its leadership is now on. I think all my airline friends fellow posters on airliners.net should and will do the same.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 12):
By "going away" I assume you mean go under? That will do the employees a lot of good won't it. I'm sure transfering to a handling company at their place of work would be preferable to most employees than being layed of because their company goes under. And I'm sure that if everyone took the view that they are not going to fly NWA again then NWA is likely to go under even quicker!

I think they would rather transfer to the company that comes around when NWA hits the road. Theoretically, it sounds better for the employee and the consumer.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 17):
This is now causing me to rethink my deep allegiance to Northwest Airlines. This is not the way put the company back on track to a profitable future.

Yet another critical poster with no real insight as to exactly how NW should become profitable again in today's environment.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 17):
I was caught between NW, CO and DL. With this news, NW was eliminated.

I really don't understand this mentality. If a company has to outsource staff to stay in business then so be it. If everyone decides not to fly with them because they do this then they will go out of business. This surely is the worst case scenario for all staff, both employed by NWA and outsourced.

Is it really the case that whether an airline has in-house ground handling matters more that price, punctuality, service etc.... to you when deciding who to fly with.

Outsourcing of handling, both below and above wing, at non hub stations is happening all over Europe, it's only a matter of time before it happens in the USA.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:52 am

that would be a reduction of 75%.another "factual" A.NET post LOL  Smile

Employees
About 40,000 worldwide.


http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/profi/facts/
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:53 am

It not my job to decide how NW becames profitable. Im just a dumb Pax, EJMMSU. Its the leaders of that company to decide HOW to do it. I used to work for them years ago so I feel an allegiance. Now, I will sit back and see IF this is true or false. The few airline news sites which I have read,(not airliner.net), so far, see no mention of changing personnal but I did find they want to park some CRJ's.
You don't need to have a plan B if you don't like plan A.
You just sit in the stands and BOO, ok?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
Jano
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:54 am

I still have 3 flights on NW this year. TYS-VIE 2x and TYS-FLL 1x. As always I'll decide if I keep flying NW* based on on-time performance, NW staff here in TYS, and on board and ground service I'll be getting.

*I have not flown anyone else in 5 years with an exception of one award flight on AF
The Widget Air Line :)
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:18 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
Although this is bad for the NW employees, I havn't heard any better ideas to get NW profitable again.

They havent looked hard enough. Try looking towards CO,AA and US,UA can still be flying using employees of their own. There are many other ways than this. Hope for a nose dive and end it quickly.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
Everyone wants to bash NW, but nobody has any real answer to a "better way" of doing it.

You would think this would be a last ditch effort to regain control. Instead it is like showing your pair of aces before you try to bluff.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:00 pm

In my U.S. Home airport CWA, when I was young it was always a joke about the staff there.

No one was really an NW or UA or whatever staff. They were the same people. There were about 20 people at CWA. Check in was by the same people and loading the plane...same people...boarding...same people. So Judy would check you in and when everyone was checked in, she threw on a jacket went outside and put the bags on the plane. Then came in and did the boarding process. It was kind of funny. Its different now but back then..it was normal.

Now moving them all to MSP, MEM or DTW is just not logical. Let's say that even 20% choose to do this. I would think most would just be sitting around. If NW really wants to do this, they should be a little more compasionate. At least give career consultations to the ones that will be laid off. Try and get the outsource company to at least do job interviews with people who will loose their jobs in those markets. It would give them a good image as "an airline that made a difficult choice but at least they cared about their employees and their families" (even if they really don't seem to).
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:18 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 25):
Then came in and did the boarding process. It was kind of funny. Its different now but back then..it was normal.

That is sad you thought that was funny. She was trying to make a living, and you thought it was funny.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting UAcosCS (Reply 26):
That is sad you thought that was funny. She was trying to make a living, and you thought it was funny.

He wasn't slamming her. He was having fun with the fact that she changed jackets and boarded for multiple airlines, why is that sad?
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 5):
I am kinda hoping NW goes away at this point.....The have quickly become a huge nuisance to their employees, customers and their communities....really no more need for the a==holes....( Oh but your right,,their brilliant officers have the best parachutes,,so they must be enticed to stick around!!)

Agreed. I feel bad for the employees but at this point NWA practices with their labor groups are just non sense. I just hope executives don't run away with millions in bonuses. Disgusting!
 
Braniff727
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 2:25 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:14 pm

Yeah, I'm going to have to call BS on this. From what I'm understanding from the email is that they are cutting all IAM represented workers at non-hub airports. The IAM, according to recent press stories represents roughly 15,000 members at NWA.

If the email is true, not only is NWA eliminating every IAM member, but someone in their family who is not employed by NWA.

I think this is a product of the employees freaking out and spreading a bunch of rumors. Just today I heard that we were to see Doug Steenland's resignation by the end of the evening. Well it's 23:13 Eastern time and I've seen nothing yet.

Just relax, and if you hear something that isn't in a press release, take it with a grain of salt...
Climbing
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 28):
just hope executives don't run away with millions in bonuses.

For the 1,000th time, An airline in bankruptcy is basically under the supervision of a trustee appointed by the court and to some degree the creditor committee. Combine this fact with the Sarbines Oxley Act and you would understand that they executives don't control bonuses.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting UAcosCS (Reply 24):
Try looking towards CO,AA and US,UA can still be flying using employees of their own.

And I'm sure they will be looking very closely at how this pans out for NWA. If it works then no doubt when the other airlines need to find the source for their next round of cuts, then outsourcing will be what they do. From a business stand point, in an industry with huge downward pressure on costs, then this is the way forward. Airlines are in the business of getting people from A to B and they don't need their own ground handling staff to do that!
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 31):
in an industry with huge downward pressure on costs, then this is the way forward

Laying off 75% of your employees would be a cost increase. This topic is ludacris, and I don't mean the rapper.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:31 pm

Someday the legacy airlines will realize that the REAL, PROFITABLE airlines take responsibility for their operations and have their own employees: Southwest, JetBlue, Singapore, etc.

Instead legacy airlines are giving into their own incompetence and outsourcing.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 32):
Laying off 75% of your employees would be a cost increase. This topic is ludacris,

I too have my doubts about the figures in the original post, I'm just commenting on the issue of outsourcing. Outsourcing this amount of employees is cleary unrealistic but in general terms outsourcing if done correctly, does reduce costs, as has been proven many times in Europe.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:44 pm

If paychecks have to be cut then management should take the first cut - equal to the largest percentage the workers have to take. The old boys wouldn't be able to fall back on their golden parachutes as the unions can have those agreements thrown out under Ch 11. Basically, while NW is trying to put pressure on the unions the table can also be turned on them.

The unions also need to take a good look at what is needed in the way of cuts to make things work. When times are good they want the increases (can you say "Boeing") and when times are bad they need to bend. I think it is a given that pensions will not be around a lot longer in the form they are now in and it is the unions that can deliver viable options. Management would hate it, but the Bk Judge would look at any serious proposal.

Right now no one has to worry about the shareholders as they are fully stuffed with the filing. It's creditors that the company is now responsible for and they are going to take a beating.

It's a sorry mess for the workers this week, but I have a feeling that management is not going to get off easily over the next 1 - 2 years.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:19 pm

After talking to some employees tonight after coming off work they said a memo had been posted detailing the amount of money NW wants as cuts from each group represented by the IAM. These amounts have increase substantially from those given prior to BK. Cutting two weeks vacation, vastly less sick days "earned", less holidays, the 12.5 plus 5 percent paycuts and higher insurance premiums as well as a threat about insurance for retirees and the usual but no mention from THESE sources about the layoff at all the spoke stations. The mention of that by Mr. DePace in the above articles in my last thread does lead me to think that this was somehow mentioned.

What I think was likely is that this was a floater put out by NW as a threat as to what they might do if the IAM does not pass these mentioned items and the contract was abrogated through BK.

Don't forget the flight attendants being replaced by foreign nationals in your numbers.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
commavia
Posts: 9741
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
If paychecks have to be cut then management should take the first cut - equal to the largest percentage the workers have to take.

Agree 150%. If airline CEOs expect their employees to take up to 40% paycuts, then they should be willing to taken even larger ones, especially considering that they make far more than any of the front-line employees. Granted, CEOs do have very difficult jobs, with immense stress and huge responsibilities, but if their first priority is to preserve the economic value of their company, then they should be the first to take cuts in order to show labor that they are committed to fairness and equity.
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:25 pm

Quoting Legacytravel (Thread starter):
Today Northwest Airlines announced that they will be laying off or transferring 30,000 Employees Doug Steenland wants to cut Nw spending buy ruffly 40% so he is getting ride off all employees in the U.S. excluding these Airports Msp,Dtw,and Mem Nw gave it's Employees one of 2 option transfer to hub or get layed off. Ramp pay was cut by about 5.00$ Northwest is hiring a company to run all U.S. airports excluding the ones I've stated. This means many families including my own are moving to Tennessee,Michigan,Minnesota, or a foreign Country. the date for the employees decision id ruffly June 30th I have not heard what will happen to then rest of the good people here at Northwest but I will update as soon as I can

Please... someone send this person back to basic English 101 class! Roughly... not ruffly. Why can't anyone put a simple sentence together anymore?

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 1):
If this is true, then I give it about 30 minutes for the Airliners.net armchair CEO's to praise this move by NW. Any move by an airline that cuts the wages, benefits, and quality of living of its workforce seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to the majority of members on this forum. As long as the shareholders reap their bounty, and the "executives" get their golden parachutes, all is right with the world...

And YOUR plan to revive NWA is... ??????????

Quoting Gnomon (Reply 13):
After all, the source firms have the same fixed costs that NWA would have in employing such large masses of people -- and they, like NWA (arguably), are in business to make a profit.

Wrong! outsourcing firms do not have the same fixed cost. Most of them pay their workers much less and in some cases not bound by burdensome union contracts. Otherwise why would there be a growing worldwide outsourcing platform in nearly every aspect of business?
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
Squid
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:21 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 38):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
If paychecks have to be cut then management should take the first cut - equal to the largest percentage the workers have to take.

Agree 150%. If airline CEOs expect their employees to take up to 40% paycuts, then they should be willing to taken even larger ones, especially considering that they make far more than any of the front-line employees. Granted, CEOs do have very difficult jobs, with immense stress and huge responsibilities, but if their first priority is to preserve the economic value of their company, then they should be the first to take cuts in order to show labor that they are committed to fairness and equity.

No, not exactly. NWA management should not take paycuts, they are management. This is how NWA is going to retain and attract valuable people to their management team. It's not really that important what the labor groups think, they can quit or be replaced if they don't like it.
 
AZFLYER84
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:38 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:02 pm

The troubles seem to continue at NW..first no pillows..no magazines...cutting service to certain cities..adding rj's..cutting the workforce...what's next?
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:05 pm

Here's my 2 cents. Whether this rumor is fact or fiction it is a likely scenario. All one has to do is look at the major airports of Europe to see outsourcing of all ground services. ServiceAir at Manchester is just one example. They handle everyone from Continental to KLM. It is a common business model in Europe though seen much less here in the US with the major carriers.

My brother is a 30+ year NW employee with a mortgage and 2 kids still at home. I pray this isn't true but wouldn't be surprised if it is. NW has never been overly conscious at protecting front line employee jobs or benefits. Their mgmt style has been slash/burn for sometime. This is a sad rumor.
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:09 pm

Well, here's what NWA is asking for from the IAM represented groups:

http://iam143.org/nw_bankruptcy_term_intro.htm



5% paycut for the duration of the bankruptcy stay, and contract rates slashed another 12.5% on top of that.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:10 pm

I think that this post is a load of bullshit, plain and simple. Look at the guy's profile - he claims to be 36-45, yet his spelling and grammar is on a level of a typical AOL teenager. Ruffly? Getting ride? No punctuation in half of his post? Give me a god damn break. I suggested deletion.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:13 pm

What I am realy laughing about is a $5 an hour paycut. HECK, that would be great considering what is on the table for a 16 year flight attendant. And that would be about a $11.00 an hour paycut.

Nice try to get everyone worked up here. But, April 1st is a while a way.

Safe Flying  Smile

And oh, if it is not on company or union letter head. Well, it just isn't true. For today at least.
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
globetrekker
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:51 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:16 pm

Outsourcing is pretty common in Europe. It amazes me sometimes at how many sations around the world US carriers do self-handling. Even at a small station like AUA, AA does self-handling.

US, UA, DL outsource to the same company, wearing the airlines uniform (dedicated staff). Flight benefits are limited to the employee only and you are trained by the airlines themselves.

We at KLM also outsource everything at AUA. Staff wears KLM uniform, however Airport Management is done by direct employees. We send agents to AMS for training in products and services and make sure the service standard stay on level.
The agents get 4 non-revenue tickets a year for themselves, with the lowest priority.
The pax don't even notice the difference.

In the case of AF and KL, they outsourced a lot of stations in the world to Swissport.


Globe Trekker / AUA
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2191
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:54 pm

I just don't see how employees who aren't NW employees can be loyal and actually CARE about NW and/or its passengers, or their jobs. What are they actually "part of" in that case?

BTW, how, oh how, is outsourcing profitable, when one company is paying another company to do work that it's own employees used to do, and the other (outsourcing) company has to make a profit on its services somewhere in all that? There's a profit built in for this other party (after they've covered their own costs and benefits, etc) that makes it hard to believe that it's actually more economical for the 1st company.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
TL8490
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:50 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:59 pm

Has anyone considered that NW seems to be dumping unions to look similar to Delta???? If this "rumor" is true....the next group to be targeted would be the flight attendants....and if the news this morning was correct they are looking at top end pay reductions from 47000 to 33000....If NW did not have the flight attendant union and the front end customer service union they would be a much better fit with Delta.
 
aa777flyer
Posts: 1017
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 8:45 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:16 pm

I really hope it is not true. It could send shockwaves through the rest of the industry, and other carriers could follow. Personally, IMHO I dont think it is true. If it were true, the employees effected could really bring NW down fast. I could see smaller stations with only a few flights a day, but to cut all but 3 hubs? Sounds like one of those "cockpit rumors"

[Edited 2005-09-28 15:19:57]
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
legacytravel
Posts: 385
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:05 pm

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:38 pm

This apparently must be approved by th BK judge overseeing the NWA Chapter 11.
Here is another email:
Northwest Airlines CEO Doug Steenland wants to outsource 12,000 jobs from each Nw destination Excluding International and the following Msp,Dtw and Mem only the top seniority employees can ask to transfer to hub stations. The rest will be layed off and replaced by a cheaper operating company chosen by Nw or the Court this will "help our Airline get back on it's feet" Steenland. This is currently just a proposal it will be presented in court to the judge in about 2 months and will possibly take a year + to be properly organized. I am simply stating this so that NW's non-hub Employees can plan on what they want to do and perhaps it can be changed if all the Employees band together and stop this outrage from ever happening even if it is not approved yet it is still a threat to Nw Employees every where. I mean come on there are better money makers then this right? and the reason it was not on Radar is because it was not but into effect and only certain managers knew about it.

Thanks again and sorry about the lack of info in the other post I should have got numbers straight first

Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

NWA To Outsource 30,000 Jobs? confirmed or not?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Legacytravel (Thread starter):
Today Northwest Airlines announced that they will be laying off or transferring 30,000 Employees

Could your friend please produce the announcement by Northwest. Why is he the only Northwest person who has seen this announcement?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], DeSpringbokke, doulasc, gregn21, qf789, RL777, rohanb2, seabosdca, SESGDL, SyeaphanR, transit, trex8, TWA772LR, Wingtips56 and 288 guests