md90fan
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Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:58 am

Will Airtran ever expand at DFW or LAX?? , I kknow FL serves ATL,BWI,LAS,MCO and LAX from DFW pretty good up against the monster there (AA)  bigthumbsup . And from LAX they serve DFW and LAX but is there any chance that they will add new destinations??? BWI or MCO???  crossfingers . I hope they can expand from these cities in the near future.  yes 

In the future I can see them:
DFW-CAK/BOS/SRQ/IND/MDW/FLL/FNT*/PHL
LAX-LAS/BWI/MCO/PHL


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flyibaby
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:51 pm

I don't know if they have the available gates in MCO for transcon flights, plus that market is kinda inundated right now. I too however am surprised that they don't beef up DFW a little more, unless they are just awaiting new equipment.
 
SeaTran
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:39 pm

AirTran must establish itself beyond a single-hub operation at ATL. July DOT ratings prove that.

I think AirTran will slowly expand at DFW. DFW can touch almost every city currently in the AirTran route system with both fleet types. It is a much more centrally located city than ATL.

At LAX, I hope they expand. I totally agree that LAX-LAS would be a great starter route for West coast point-to-point flying. I'd love to see LAX or another West coast city become the focal point for developing a "barbell" shaped route system for AirTran. To become a truly national airline, they need to establish a West coast route system. However, for the time being I see very little West coast capacity being added. There may be a couple of West coast cities added over the next year or so, but it's doubtful they will serve anywhere but ATL.

Ideally, I would like to see AirTran develop central and western US hubs. Candidates for the central US would be DFW, DEN, or HOU. Candidates for a western US hub would be SLC, LAX, SFO, SMF, OAK, or SEA.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:25 pm

The September issue of ATW has an interview with CEO Joe Leonard.

The article does touch on expansion plans for Airtran. Its mentions that loosing ATA's Midway operation "was definitely a disappointment", and would have allowed the airline to diversify beyond ATL.
Going forward, while ATL which currently accounts for 70% will continue to be the nucleus of the network, the airline will not focus on only one or two megahubs, but will instead develop numerous minihubs/focus cities.
The airline is not particularly looking to open many new cities, but instead will inter connect current ones. While Atlanta is the first city to connect to a new spoke, much future growth will come from further connecting the minihubs/focus cities to the spoke city.
In regards to Dallas the article mentions the carrier currently serves the top 6 of 10 markets, and is in no hurry to grow.

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 2):
I totally agree that LAX-LAS would be a great starter route for West coast point-to-point flying

You've gotta be kidding right? The LAX-LAS market is extremely competitive and is very well served by Southwest, America West, United and American. Between them they have 36 daily flights. In addition there are near 50 additional daily flights between the other Southland airports (BUR,SNA,LGB,ONT) and Vegas.
Airtran would be foolish to use its resources enter the middle of such an already saturated low fare market. Kinda reminds me of the repeated times Delta has tried nudge into and run LAX-SFO shuttle services, to only fail as the SoCal-Bay Area market is pretty well covered by incumbents.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SunValley
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:15 pm

Airtran knows that while major emphasis will be at ATL, they must fully diversify into other focus & point to point cities. One major difference between WN & most others (including B6) is that there is very little reliance on one major hub operation. As we have seen in the past, weather & disaster in 1 hub city can almost completely shut an airline down until the weather or problem is over. Remember the 3 day spring storm in DEN in 2002- Frontier came to an almost complete standstill across the board. This is costly. On the other hand, multiple hubs-focus cities and point to point traffic can keep a portion of operations running, without the cancelling of 100% of a companies flights, as passengers & cargo can be routed through other hub & focus operations.
 
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BNE
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:31 pm

Airtran may add some more cities from DFW but it is unlikely to add any from LAX and definitely not LAX TO LAS
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:15 pm

For a while it did seem that FL was going to expand at DFW, but it somewhat slowed partly due to:

1. Reduced revenue due to last year's hurricane season which disrupted many of its Florida operations as well as its ATL hub.

2. For a while, FL was focused on efforts to expand at MDW via bidding for some of TZ's assets & gates; which was thwarted by WN.

3. Around the same time, WN started pondering a Dallas expansion: it first looked into the DL gate offer at DFW, but turned it down mainly due to the leasing conditions; then WN broke its silence on W/S A and started an effort to get it repealed as a means to expand out their home base at DAL.

Personally, I would wish that FL reconsider some modest expansion at DFW; especially since efforts (from the Feds) to repeal the W/S A are on hold for now due to more pressing matters (S.C. Justice vacancy, Katrina/Rita relief).

I noticed that FL actually dropped one of its BWI-DFW non-stop flights some time back. Since I now have friends that live in the Dallas area, I'm, personally, still hoping for them to add PHL-DFW non-stop service since AA's & US' fares (even advance purchases) can get a bit high at times.
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tundra767
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:24 am

LAX-SFO would be a good one for them. I know it seems like everytime I have a last minute trip I need to take up there the fares on AA,UA are really high. Put a little low fare compition on the LAX-SFO ( not OAK ) run.
 
as739x
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:30 am

LAX-LAS, your joking....right?

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
COERJ145
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:40 am

They should do a DFW/LAX/LAS to PVD/MHT on their 73Gs to compete w/ AA and WN.
 
dagolden1
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:56 am

Lord knows that there is gate space at DFW, but that might come back to haunt FL when the Wright Amendment is finally repealed.

 optimist 
 
md90fan
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:48 am

So i guess this means no?  sigh 
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ejmmsu
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
The LAX-LAS market is extremely competitive and is very well served by Southwest, America West, United and American

NW also serves LAX-LAS
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
stirling
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
the airline will not focus on only one or two megahubs, but will instead develop numerous minihubs/focus cities.

Sounds like another little whacky airline that flew up and down the east coast once upon time, not too long ago.

Eastern Airlines, and the Great Silver Fleet, or Hockey Stick; depending on your perspective.

Proudly protecting the Eastern Seaboard against a communist invasion with hubs/focus cities in places like;

Houston, Boston, Washington-National, Charlotte, Chicago-O'Hare, Miami, St Louis, New Orleans, San Juan, Philadelphia, Tampa, Baltimore, My Basement, Panama City, Panama, Louie's Cheesesteak Stand, New York-LaGuardia, Orlando, and of course Atlanta.....That airline was everywhere; God Bless 'Em.
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laca773
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:06 pm

How about LAX-SJC? Everyone seems to forget about SJC. The only one with true jet service is WN and if FL was to start service I think they'd blow AAEagle out of the water and UAExpresss with 717s73Gs vs ERJ/CRJs.
In addition isn't gate space at LAX kinda tight? Are they in T3?

How about ONT? I think this would be great for FL to expand at on the west coast as ONT could easily pick up the volume and it seems there are plenty of gates available there as well..

LACA773
 
N1120A
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 2):
I totally agree that LAX-LAS would be a great starter route for West coast point-to-point flying.

It would probably be the worst way to start. Taking a shot at LAX-SFO service would likely be a better idea

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 12):
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
The LAX-LAS market is extremely competitive and is very well served by Southwest, America West, United and American

NW also serves LAX-LAS

That NW service is really not in competition with anyone, rather it caters to Japanese tour groups that do LAX-LAS combined packages.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 14):
Are they in T3?

Yes

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 14):
In addition isn't gate space at LAX kinda tight?

T3 is actually rather slow at certain parts of the day, and could give FL the chance to pull a B6 and take over at off peak times

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 14):
How about LAX-SJC? Everyone seems to forget about SJC.

No one forgets about SJC, particularly WN. It just isn't the same as SFO or OAK
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MaverickM11
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting BNE (Reply 5):
Airtran may add some more cities from DFW but

I think it's clear that DFW is way under expectations--I don't expect much more to be added from DFW anytime soon unless all the current routes have a major turn around.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Will FL Ever Expand Out Of DFW Or LAX?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
That NW service is really not in competition with anyone, rather it caters to Japanese tour groups that do LAX-LAS combined packages.

True, this is the main intention of the flight, but it is bookable as a separate leg, and usually for the same price as WN, UA, AA.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"