LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:03 am

Form 8-K for MAIR HOLDINGS INC


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28-Sep-2005

Other Events



Item 8.01. Other Events.
On Monday, September 26, 2005, Northwest Airlines, Inc. ("Northwest") made a payment of approximately $1.6 million to Mesaba Aviation, Inc. ("Mesaba"), a wholly owned subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. (the "Company"). The payment due was for services provided by Mesaba to Northwest from September 1 through September 15. However, due to Northwest's bankruptcy petition filed on September 14, 2005, Northwest paid only that portion of the payment attributable to services provided post-petition. Mesaba estimates the total amount of its prepetition claim with Northwest to be approximately $28 million.

Although Northwest's most recent payment indicates its intent to pay Mesaba for services provided following the date of Northwest's bankruptcy filing, Northwest has also significantly reduced the number of flights Mesaba will operate for Northwest. Specifically, Northwest will remove nine Avro Regional Jets ("Avros") from service effective October 31, 2005, and Northwest provided Mesaba with notice of its intent to terminate the leases for all 35 of the Avros effective December 20, 2005. The aggregate effect of these actions will significantly reduce Mesaba's revenue and will lead to losses in the Company's third and fourth fiscal quarters. Mesaba continues to assess all available alternatives, and the Company, as the sole shareholder of Mesaba, continues to separately assess the impact of the various alternatives available to Mesaba.
 
nkops
Posts: 2156
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:57 am

WOW... your not kidding that Mesaba got the shaft....

Will NW be closing some cities after getting rid of 35 ARJ's??? If I was Mesaba I might start looking for other code-share opps.
:evil:
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:36 am

Well since NW basically runs Mesaba, others are not going to happen, secondly the threat of the ARJ's is mainly to get lower lease rates.

In the end, the NW management sucks, fortunately and unfortunately the average consumer doenst see that.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
Will NW be closing some cities after getting rid of 35 ARJ's??? If I was Mesaba I might start looking for other code-share opps.

If I were XJ there would be no "might" about it. I'd be scrambling to put jets back in the air with anybody who will take them. Unfortunately for XJ, there's probably nobody around that will take them. AA: No. UA: Possibly but more likely No. CO: Definetly not. DL: Haha that's funny. US: Definetly not. Any LCC's anybody?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:46 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
If I were XJ there would be no "might" about it. I'd be scrambling to put jets back in the air with anybody who will take them.

One problem...XJ doesn't own any jets, they are basicly a subcontractor for NW, with labor only being contracted...NW leases/owns the jets. XJ could approach UAL and say "We have 3500 people for you....do you have any planes for us?"

LOL
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:09 pm

 
mcdu
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:13 pm

I heard a rumor UAL is considering trying to get MAIR to fly the Aspen and other old ARW 146 flying. The airplane availability is the problem since NWA has the leases and MAIR has the crews. Not sure what is in the works but it might be ex ARW 146's being sent to MAIR for the flying as UAX.

Hope the best for the MAIR folks.
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:47 pm

Any chance MAIR could be picked up by WN or B6, or is that outlandish?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 4):
One problem...XJ doesn't own any jets, they are basicly a subcontractor for NW, with labor only being contracted...NW leases/owns the jets. XJ could approach UAL and say "We have 3500 people for you....do you have any planes for us?"

Your only talking about a small percentage of the Mesaba fleet when you talk about the Avro's. Mesaba also have a very large number of Saab 340's which are not owned by Northwest.... and with Northwest defaulting on these payments it will make it harder for Mesaba to pay their bills.

[Edited 2005-10-03 14:33:39]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:30 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 6):
heard a rumor UAL is considering trying to get MAIR to fly the Aspen and other old ARW 146 flying.

Source of this rumor!!!
 
LCH
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 7):

Highly doubtfu, I fail to see any commonality between XJ and WN/B6, and besides, WN and B6 probably won't expand by mergersn and aqusitions, but rather natural growth. Keep in mind thath the only company WN ever bought was Morris Air, because David Neeleman had modelled Morris Air on WN, so there were few differences in corporat culture and they operated the same aircraft.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
Mesaba also have a very large number of Saab 340's which are not owned by Northwest.... and with Northwest defaulting on these payments it will make it harder for Mesaba to pay their bills.

All of Mesaba's aircraft are leased from NW. NW owns or leases all of the Airlink aircraft. Pinnacle and Mesaba sublease all of their fleet from NW.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4111
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting LCH (Reply 10):
Keep in mind thath the only company WN ever bought was Morris Air,

You may want to research a company named TranStar, aka Muse Air. Competitor to Southwest...bought, abused, and shut down. Situation was much better than the Morris Air merger, as you could probably compare it to AA buying RenoAir.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 11):
All of Mesaba's aircraft are leased from NW.

Incorrect... The B+ Saab 340's (XJ) are owned by Saab Aircraft Leasing (dba: Lambert Leasing or Fairbrook Leasing), most if not all the B's are owned by Wells Fargo Bank and Trust...(PX)

[Edited 2005-10-03 18:36:36]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
toltommy
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:05 am

EMBQA

Those aircraft may be owned by other groups, but they do NOT directly lease the planes to Mesaba. The planes are leased to NW, who subleases them to Mesaba.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 14):
Those aircraft may be owned by other groups, but they do NOT directly lease the planes to Mesaba. The planes are leased to NW, who subleases them to Mesaba.

Ah, trust me..your wrong. That is what I do for a living and certainly know who my clients are.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:46 am

The B+ planes are leased by NWA then subleased to XJ. The PX planes 360-370 are leased by 9E then subleased to XJ. The PX airplanes are old, they are the old Express I birds. The 3 A models left I think are leased directly by XJ.
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:01 pm

Swwweeeet...maybe Spanjers can hop on one of his remaining A models and fly it to NYC to declare bankruptcy!
 
ca2ohHP
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:14 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:40 pm

Mesaba management should have seen this coming and prepared their company for what it is now facing. They put all their eggs in one basket - a huge risk. To top it off, they sue NW days after NW files bankruptcy.....talk about biting the hand that (has fed) feeds you.
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:03 am

They sued NW? I hadn't heard that one. Could you see XJ and Comair merging?
 
Derik737
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:53 am

RE: Mesaba Gets Shaft From NW--Again

Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:32 pm

More bad news for Mesaba:

Quoted from http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuot...2005-10-07_13-09-05_wen0643_newsml


Northwest Airlines will remove 10 Saab B+ aircraft from Mesaba's schedule as of Jan. 4.

Mair also said in a government filing that Northwest has advised Mair that it likely will be unable to meet the delivery schedule for the remaining 13 Canadair Regional Jet Aircraft that are to be delivered according to a previous agreement.

Who is online