ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:24 am

hey everyone,
it has been widely rumoured, and even casually mentioned on their own website that Portuguese carrier PORTUGALIA is planning on joining Sky Team in the very near future. They have just recently signed a codeshare agreement with AZ. I was wondering if NI plans to get any bigger, perhaps purchase some larger planes and try flying sked to some areas TAP doesnt cover...I know Portugal doesn't necessarily have the room or economy for two major airlines, however having flown NI in the past the service was outstanding, and everybody loves a little Star Alliance vs Sky Team competition. I'd love to see a NI 767 or 330 in YYZ one day...could it happen?? Your thoughts please
 
HEGAN
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:38 am

Doesn't Portugalia belong to TAP???

Some time ago, yes. If this is still right, the logical alliance for PGA would be Star.

If not, the best one is Sky Team: Oneworld has Iberia as its iberian player, and Star has TAP and Spanair. The only one without any carrier from Portugal or Spain is Sky Team, even if it seems that Air Europa will join in a future.

Agur,
HEGAN
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:47 am

Hi RicardoFG,
Im happy that you have decided to start this topic. I had intention on doing the same for a while.

If all goes well PGA should become part of Sky Team towards the end of the year. Negotiation between TAP and PGA broke off and both decide to go their seperate way. I always believed that it would have been in the best of intrest for both TAP and PGA to merge, providing a stronger network. As this has not been the case PGA will prove to be a peble in TAP´s shoe as they provide an outstanding service. One of the best in all of Europe.

In relaion to its fleeet PGA currently has the following,

FOKKER 100 (6)
EMBRAER 145 (8)
SAAB 2000 (2)
BEECHCRAFT 1900D (1)

The Fokkers are becoming quite old and the same can be said about its remaning fleet. I would expect PGA to offer larger capacity aircraft to battle head to head with TAP. I would not be surprised if they opted for the E190 as a Fokker replacement or even maybe A320/B737 members.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
N276AASTT
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:19 pm

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:52 am

I agree that PGA would do well with A320/B737 types added to their fleet, but with the Fokkers that AA recently gave up, would PGA be in the market for those used aircraft?
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
HEGAN
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:30 am

I think that would be smarter to go for the ERJ-190/195.

The gap between the F100 and the 318/319 and 736/737 could be too big for having profitable flights. With smaller planes you could compete with TAP and wouldn't need to have so many massengers on each flight. In adition, the 195 is more economical, and it's also better to mantein.

Agur,
HEGAN
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:31 am

but could we see the day when PGA will go widebody?
 
HEGAN
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 5):
but could we see the day when PGA will go widebody?

Of course I don't really know, but TAP competing with other major European carriers operationg in niche markets, doesn't leave too much space for other niche routes for PGA (considering its possible long haul operations to North/South America, Africa and Middle East).

Waht you, a.netters from Portugal, think?

Agur
HEGAN
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
 
DETA737
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 3:47 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:50 am

It's interesting Portugalia seems to do quite well and has excellent service but it is rarely talked about on this site. I was actually wondering myself if they have any expansion plans or fleet upgrades in their future.
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:55 am

HI

I believe PGA will join Skyteam pretty soon, they also have code share flights with Air France, KLM and Air Europa (AZ as well as someone mentioned already).

My impression is that AF started to become very interested in PGA and probably made some influence.... Last year or so there was an agreememnt between TAP, SATA and PGA to share some services like handling, catering, maintenance, etc, in order to get cost reductions.

However, if I'm not mistaken PGA has a participation on Groundforce, the handling company that TAP has created. Right now the handling services for TAP and PGA are made by this company.
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:58 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 5):
but could we see the day when PGA will go widebody?

Not sure about that. PGA has a very specific market and I believe they will renew their fleet soon, but with planes that suit their strategy - to be the best regional airline. And they have achieved this for the 5th year (if I'm not mistaken).
 
airbazar
Posts: 6874
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:14 am

If I understand correctly their business model, PGA primarily serves small business centers in Southern Europe. They do not have the need for aircraft as large as the A318/319/32X or 737. They cater mostly to business travelers and carry little cargo, ence the superior quality of service. They are by all means, a regional airline much like Tyrolean used to be.

Unfortunately the quality of service with Tyrolean since joining the Austrian Airlines group and Start aliance has plumeted from one of the best in Europe to one notch above crap. I'm afraid the same would happen if Portugalia were to merge with TAP so I'm happy that that didn't happen.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting TAP1972 (Reply 9):
they have achieved this for the 5th year (if I'm not mistaken).

Thats right TAP1972, Portugalia have been awarded this 5 years in a row. This year they also managed to acheive the following,

4 Star Airline

1st Place Best Cabin Staff (Europe)
2nd Place Best Airline Europe
Best Reginal Airline Europe

Just hit on the link bellow to find the reviews buy its passengers.

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/pga.htm

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/NI.htm

http://www.airlinequality.com/2005/airline-05-regional.htm


Not bad for such a small game player.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:38 am

and now thanks to TAPs new paintjob, Portugalia has better looking planes too!  highfive 
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 10):
I'm afraid the same would happen if Portugalia were to merge with TAP so I'm happy that that didn't happen.

Apart from the fact that some media has mentioned a potential merger between TAP and PGA, I think that was not the plan.

The idea was to build a national strategic alliance (TAP, SATA, PGA), with PGA and SATA also feeding TAP's long hall routes and as I said before to get some cost reductions in several services when acting together.

I beleive a possible participation in PGA's capital was discussed as well as a participation of Grupo Espirito Santo (PGA's shareholder) on TAP's capital. Again, I'm not 100% sure, but I think this was more or less the plan.
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 12):
and now thanks to TAPs new paintjob, Portugalia has better looking planes too!

I'm not going to discuss about each one's opinion on TAP's new paintjob, but his funny to see the A.Net photographers like it more than the forum members. Just take a look on the comments of the photographers....
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:47 pm

Does anyone believe that Air France may take a stake into Portugalia in the future?

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:30 pm

AF and PGA already have an important codeshare agreement on quite a few flights between France (especially French Provinces) & Portugal.

It was said, quite a while ago already, that PGA would have first the status of "associated member" of SkyTeam, rather than a full integration.
 
photolppt
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:17 pm

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:55 pm

Hi all,

There was an interview given by PGA CEO, in an economy newspaper here in Portugal. Can't remember the details, but two things are certain from that interview:

- PGA will become an "associated member" of SkyTeam first, and in the future a full member of the alliance;
- Fleet plans call for a replacement of the F100 and ERJ145 by E170 and E190, and are only dependant on more favorable economic conditions. There are no plans for either the Airbus or Boeing route because, as already stated here, the airline doesn't need the extra capacity and they are extremely happy with Embraer products.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:31 pm

Quoting PhotoLPPT (Reply 17):
- Fleet plans call for a replacement of the F100 and ERJ145 by E170 and E190, and are only dependant on more favorable economic conditions.

Hi PhotoLPPT, I too believe that for the imediate future the best option for Portugalia would be for the aquasition of the E170 and E190.
One of the greatest challenges that Portugalia has at the moment is the rising fuel cost. The introduction of the E190 would provide great savings in relation to fuel while at the same time offering its customers better comfort.

One area which Portugalia is lacking is IFE. With the introduction of the E190 they could further improve on their product.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
HEGAN
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:39 am

As I said, I think the ERJ's family would work better for them (for the type of operations they have) than Airbuses or Boeings .

2005 seems to be a great year for aviation in Portugal:

  • New members of international alliances for TAP and PGA (even if they would be associate member).
  • New aircraft orders
  • TAP's aniversary and new image.

Agur,
HEGAN
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Portugalia Airlines To Join Sky Team?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 19):

# New members of international alliances for TAP and PGA (even if they would be associate member

Hi HEGAN, when you refer (THEY) are you regarding both TAP and PGA or just PGA?

TAP became a full member of Star Alliance in March 2005.
PGA will start off with Associated member later this year followed by full membership.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.

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