kaitak
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ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:11 am

According to today's ATW News, Boeing is looking to approve the 747 Advanced aircraft by December.

The usual suspects are mentioned ... CI, CV, CX, SQ, JL, but there is one interesting point. ANZ has apparently said that if the pax aircraft is launched, it will order it.

While the company is tight-lipped on the go-ahead for the program, industry analysts say it is not a matter of if but when. Cargolux has committed to 10 and other carriers identified with the project include China Airlines, Japan Airlines, ANA and Singapore Airlines. Others like Air New Zealand have told this website they likely would buy the model if Boeing commits.

Of course, ANZ is already a 744 operator and it probably isn't that surprising from that vantage point, but as a new 777 operator, I would have thought they'd go for the 773 ER.

Of course, they're not mutually exclusive, but NZ is going to end up with a very interesting fleet : 747Adv, 777, 787, 320 (various different models?) and 733.

[Edited 2005-09-28 22:15:20]
 
nirvarma
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:26 am

I wouldn't count on NZ getting too many 747ADV (if at all). I think they are moving away from that sort of a/c but maybe NZ1 or someone else will be able clarify. IMO they will definitly be getting more 777ERs and 787 down the line.

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NV
 
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NZ1
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 1):
I wouldn't count on NZ getting too many 747ADV (if at all). I think they are moving away from that sort of a/c but maybe NZ1 or someone else will be able clarify. IMO they will definitly be getting more 777ERs and 787 down the line.

Don't be too sure about that. I said only last week on another thread that there was a very good chance we will order some 747Adv. The reason for ordering the 773ER later to replace the 744, was because there were no viable alternatives - until now. I can't and won't tell you much more at this stage, except to say, WATCH THIS SPACE.

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DfwRevolution
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:55 am

>> The reason for ordering the 773ER later to replace the 744, was because there were no viable alternatives - until now.

Air NZ has not ordered any 773ER at this point. The 772LR and 773ER are both part of NZ's option package, but the firm order placed in Summer-04 is for 772ER (powered by Rolls Royce) and 787-8.
 
stuarts8
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:12 am

It would not surprise me if Air NZ does go this way. I think that as the 400 is already part of the fleet, this aircraft would suit them more. The Good thing I like about it is that it is 4 Engined. I some how prefer 4 engined Jets going long distances than 2 engined.
Dont know if it makes any difference though.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:15 am

I think I can see why NZ could be looking closely at the -400ADV.The -300ER seat lift would be about 10% less than the reconfigured -400's and close to 20% less than the -400ADV .
This assumes that the -300ER economy seat pitch is 34" and that the number of premium seats is the same as the -200ER; also that the -400ADV premium seating is the same as the reconfigured -400 with the extra capacity of about 40 seats as 34" economy.
NZ’s load factors are growing on the N.A./Europe sector; it was a healthy 80.5% for the 2004/2005 year and hit 88.9% in July 2005 due to the fans travelling to follow the Lion’s rugby tour. Yield is also improving, up 6.9% through August 2005 on long-haul over the previous comparative period . It is difficult to believe that much additional slot capacity is possible at LHR.to pick up the additional frequency that I think would be needed if -300ER’s were used. The anticipated 15% reduction in SFC for the GEnx engine over the CF6-80 engine has to be attractive. NZ has 4-owned and 4 leased -400's . Assuming an EIS of 2008 for the -400ADV , the eldest four in the NZ fleet will be from 14 to 18 years old,probably written off and/or leases finished.
 
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NZ107
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:21 am

Lets hope they buy a few. It will be great seeing many new types of aircraft come into AKL!

Have they got enough money to order these?
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cslusarc
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:29 am

I think that NZ could buy and fly both the 777-300ER and the 747-ADV. I think there are markets where both type of equiptment would be viable.
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ikramerica
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:55 am

because of the location of NZ and the vast expanse of ocean between it and south america and africa, a 4 holer may just make more sense for some other their routes, unlike most other carriers in the world.

The 773ER is NOT a like replacement for the 744, and NZ will need to replace the 744 eventually, and is a bit small to take on a fleet of 380s. The 747A is a logical choice for them, to have a fleet of 788, 772(ER and LR), 744, and 747A, with the 320 series replacing the 737s. Yes, the 773ER size might fit in the fleet, but they might be able to make do with choosing 772s and 744s for the routes the 773 would be a slightly better fit on.

But with the 788 and 772 orders, the A350 is right out, and the A380 makes less sense in that context (no commonality with other long haul craft in crew training, one of the "selling points").
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
Air NZ has not ordered any 773ER at this point. The 772LR and 773ER are both part of NZ's option package, but the firm order placed in Summer-04 is for 772ER (powered by Rolls Royce) and 787-8.

I think I know that mate. I never said they had ordered them, only that they will later on. I have the 10 year plan sitting in front of me, and know full well, what has been ordered, and what will be ordered. However there is fair bit I am not allowed to tell you - YET.

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sunrisevalley
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 7):
I think that NZ could buy and fly both the 777-300ER and the 747-ADV


I would think that the -200LR is a more likely possibility than the -300ER. It would be a very efficient aircraft in the 6000 to 8000nm range and would complement the -200ER for routes into India and East Coast USA.
Depending if and when some of these new routes come to fruition , the 787-8 or 9 might serve them even better.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:00 pm

>> I think I know that mate. I never said they had ordered them, only that they will later on.

Your statement was a bit ambiguous, I merely clarified for the sake of others.
 
nirvarma
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 10):
I would think that the -200LR is a more likely possibility than the -300ER. It would be a very efficient aircraft in the 6000 to 8000nm range and would complement the -200ER for routes into India and East Coast USA.
Depending if and when some of these new routes come to fruition , the 787-8 or 9 might serve them even better.

I heard somewhere that of the remaining 16 options for the 787s, NZ will be going for the 789 rather than the 788. Maybe NZ1 can calify this also.

Cheers
NV
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
Your statement was a bit ambiguous, I merely clarified for the sake of other

Point taken. When I re-read my earlier statement, it was a little ambiguous. Thanks.

Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 12):
I heard somewhere that of the remaining 16 options for the 787s, NZ will be going for the 789 rather than the 788. Maybe NZ1 can calify this also.

Sorry, cannot comment on that at the moment. Not worth my job

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N1120A
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:06 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 5):
I think I can see why NZ could be looking closely at the -400ADV.The -300ER seat lift would be about 10% less than the reconfigured -400's and close to 20% less than the -400ADV .
This assumes that the -300ER economy seat pitch is 34" and that the number of premium seats is the same as the -200ER; also that the -400ADV premium seating is the same as the reconfigured -400 with the extra capacity of about 40 seats as 34" economy.

It is very unlikely that NZ would keep the premium seat number the same on the 773ER as on the 772ER. With the NZ new J and no F, the aircraft would probably seat about 330 or so, while a 747ADV would run around 440
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aerokiwi
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:40 pm

Hmmmmm, I see this going one of two ways...

Option 1: A32x short haul, 788s/789s/78-10s med/long haul, 747ADV long haul

Option 2: A32x short haul, 788/789 med/long haul, 772/773ER (Asia/SFO routes), 747ADV long haul (Nth America and Europe)

The Japan flights rarely warrant a 747 sized aircraft from memory, so the 772 and 773 would appear ideal for that route, along with Singapore and Hong Kong and potentially China. Also the 773ER on SFO flights would seem to work.

787s would fit nicely into Australia and the Pacific and other Asian ports, such as Taipei, Seoul (if reopened), Kuala Lumpur (if ever opened) and Nagoya. Plus a potential Indian route.

The 747ADV would be needed for its capacity on LAX and LHR flights.

So I suppse it all depends on whether Boeing offers the 787-10 as to the decision re. keeping the 772s in the fleet. Ha! We're already planning their demise and NZ hasn't even taken delivery yet!
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
but NZ is going to end up with a very interesting fleet : 747Adv, 777, 787, 320 (various different models?) and 733.

By the time the B787s arrive the B733 fleet could have been replaced, most likly A319s
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:57 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):

I agree i think we will see something in the near future re. 737-300.
But boy would i love to see some 737NG in NZ colours with winglets.
Unfortunatley i dont think this will happen.

Trav
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777ER
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting NZAA (Reply 17):
But boy would i love to see some 737NG in NZ colours with winglets.
Unfortunatley i dont think this will happen.

Agree, but A320 family is the preferred short haul for NZ, so sadly no
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:26 pm

Hmm very interesting. Glad the 747 is still in contention.
 
dalecary
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:41 pm

NZ1,

I have heard from a reliable source that AirNZ may be about to place a follow-on order for both 777/787, and I believe the 777s won't be 772ERs and the 787s could well be -9s. The order may in fact be only a matter of weeks away.
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:49 pm

All I can say is - no comment. If thats what you have been told, then we will wait and see. Sorry dude, I just can't say much at all about this.

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dalecary
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:06 pm

No worries NZ1,

just telling you what I heard. Fully understand the position you are in and wouldn't expect a confirmation one way or the other. It's just another wait-and-see game.
 
SpinalTap
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:27 pm

Maybe they could get some good discounts especially considering the late 777s and as they were the second customer to order the 787. It would be a sad day when the are no longer any jumbos in the fleet.
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zeekiel
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 22):
It's just another wait-and-see game.

Another wait and see escapade. Just like QF and the 777 and BA and the 747ADV or A380 (although we know which one is more favoured).

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 21):
All I can say is - no comment.

No problem mate. We just have to wait until we get press statements from the airline and Boeing.

Cheers

Zeekiel
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SpinalTap
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 20):
NZ1,

I have heard from a reliable source that AirNZ may be about to place a follow-on order for both 777/787, and I believe the 777s won't be 772ERs and the 787s could well be -9s. The order may in fact be only a matter of weeks away.

That might be an interesting move especially as the capacity of the 789 would seem to be edging towards that of the 772. They could then shift some of the 772ER orders to 773ERs.
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:54 pm

Maybe I'm missing something here and please forgive me if I’m but I thought Boeing is only 'looking into' the 787-10 mostly coz EK is really interested! Reason I ask is because optimists in this thread have already sold the 787-10 to NZ (which would be great by the way) but I'm not sure even Boeing know whether they'll make it or not. I personally don't see why Boeing would want to eat into their own 772LR (or ER not sure) with a 787-10 while the 772LR is a very new airplane but I guess they'd rather eat into their own market as compared to letting the A350 do it.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 26):
I personally don't see why Boeing would want to eat into their own 772LR (or ER not sure) with a 787-10 while the 772LR is a very new airplane but I guess they'd rather eat into their own market as compared to letting the A350 do it.

The proposed 787-10 will not eat into the 777-200LR, theres a big range difference. If anything it will kill the 200ER because the proposed -10 would be nearly the same capacity and the same range as the 200ER.

The -200LR line will be open for a while yet.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:03 am

I meant the 772ER then
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sunrisevalley
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 20):
I have heard from a reliable source that AirNZ may be about to place a follow-on order for both 777/787


Is it possible that one or two of the -200ER's on order could be changed to -200LR's? Could the timing be delayed long enough to have some 747-400ADV thrown in for good measure if Boeing announce a committment to go ahead??
 
ZKOJH
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:06 am

lets at least get our T7's first, any new date set yet from boeing?? I dou't the 1st lot of 200er's could be changed , as this would mess up with delivery

picking up on the 744A, this is not even under the 42 options that we took hold of, so if we changed the 300er to the 744 advance would we still pay the same price, or would it be higher??

oh p.s like ANZ new website!!!!
Vietnam time..
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:02 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 26):
Maybe I'm missing something here and please forgive me if I’m but I thought Boeing is only 'looking into' the 787-10 mostly coz EK is really interested!

There was/is talk that NZ will retire its four leased B772s when the leases expire and replace them with B787s, so if the B787-10 is built then NZ would be a serious contender, also a launch customer
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Quoting NZAA (Reply 17):
But boy would i love to see some 737NG in NZ colours with winglets.
Unfortunatley i dont think this will happen.

Agree, but A320 family is the preferred short haul for NZ, so sadly no

Well, Boeing seems to be working hard on selling NZ some mid/long ranged airplanes, including the B-747-ADV.

Is Boeing trying to work through a back door, with NZ, to eventually sell them the B-737NG (with winglets) at a very discounted price, taking the A-319/320s in trade? Or perhaps the B-737NNG?
 
JetMaster
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
Is Boeing trying to work through a back door, with NZ, to eventually sell them the B-737NG (with winglets) at a very discounted price, taking the A-319/320s in trade? Or perhaps the B-737NNG?

What would be the purpose of such a deal? It would be just a waste of money, ANZ has no reason to get rid of new A320s and Boeing doesn't desperately need them as B737 customer. There are masses of others.

And the B737NNG is just too far away at the moment.


Regards,
JM
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SNATH
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
Is Boeing trying to work through a back door, with NZ, to eventually sell them the B-737NG (with winglets) at a very discounted price, taking the A-319/320s in trade? Or perhaps the B-737NNG?

I'd personally doubt that Boeing would get out of its way to do a B737NGs for A319s/A320s deal for NZ, given that the B737NG is apparently selling quite well without such deals. However, in the long run, with keeping NZ a good customer for their long-haul planes, Boeing will have one foot in the door when pitching the B737NNG to them.

BTW, has Boeing ever bought A32X models while trying to sell B737s? I know about SQ's A340s and AC's A330/A340 fleet in exchange for B777s, but I can't remember of a deal involving A32Xs. Thanks.

Tony
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JetMaster
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:43 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 34):
BTW, has Boeing ever bought A32X models while trying to sell B737s? I know about SQ's A340s and AC's A330/A340 fleet in exchange for B777s, but I can't remember of a deal involving A32Xs. Thanks.

I have never heard about such a deal. Considering the B737NG sales there's no need to do so.


Regards,
JM
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planemanofnz
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:47 pm

I really think NZ is well suited to the 747ADV. Mainly because it is a four engined aircraft which means no problems with ETOPS when they want to start some new routes like south america and maybe india!!!!!!  Big grin (one day soon hopefully.)
 
upupandaway
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:27 pm

777 due to arrive early Nov now that strike has been called off. according to insiders.
heard a rumour about ADL. new city for next year!
 
planemanofnz
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting Upupandaway (Reply 37):

Adelaide!!!!!!!! I am definately interested in this route(obviously it will not be flown with 747ADV Big grin ) but with Qantas' oddly timed flights I am sure if NZ did it's market reaserch (timing of flights) well this route might be a winner!
 
upupandaway
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:40 pm

don't quote me on ADL, just heard a rumour and I know how much everyone on Anet loves a good rumour. Still it makes sense, but to the point, the 777 are arriving and only (!) 1 month late. that means Air NZ can get back on track with thie new long haul programme. it is absolutely brilliant. C class is fantastic! can't wait to go again!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:48 pm

Quoting NZAA (Reply 17):


I agree i think we will see something in the near future re. 737-300.

slightly off topic I know - but I hope the 737s stay at least another three years - September 2008 would mark 40 years of 737 operations at NZ which would be an impressive figure ( but I have to admit that I envisage their replacements coming from TLS not SEA )
 
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NZ107
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:40 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 40):
but I hope the 737s stay at least another three years

3 years probably almost certain.. A320's aren't going to take all their places and 787's aren't coming till 2008. IMO Air NZ aren't going to be buying more short haul aircraft (A320, 737) in the near future.. But I hope for some 739X's

http://www.airnz.co.nz/aboutus/fleet/default.htm

Average age of the 737's is only 7.9.

[Edited 2005-09-30 13:41:40]
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ZKSUJ
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:10 pm

Planemanofnz-welcome to a.net.
ADL would be an interesting port. Most probably served with a 320. If the 747A was ordered, would there be a chance it would operate into SIN or is that not feasible. The reaon I asked is due to SQs high number of fliughts per week.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:25 pm

ADL is already served by QF, from AKL, 3x weekly, so can't really see NZ going for it, if they did they could time it in, so it run's into the LAX/SFO flights,

just been on the ADL airport site, and looking at the 'hub map' does show ADL - AKL 3 x weekly ( must be QF) tho not sure how up to date the map is,
Vietnam time..
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 9):
I have the 10 year plan sitting in front of me, and know full well, what has been ordered, and what will be ordered.

Did the special shareholders meeting to approve the purchase/ lease of the 8, -200ER's and the 2- 787's also cover off the purchase of additional aircraft or will another meeting be necessary assuming the value of the committment requires it. I realise that all the airline needs to do is have it's major shareholder, the N.Z. Govt. on side. What I am leading up to is the thought of getting shareholder approval for the follow up order plus three or four 747ADV's out of the way at one time.
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 40):
slightly off topic I know - but I hope the 737s stay at least another three years - September 2008 would mark 40 years of 737 operations at NZ which would be an impressive figure

737's will be in the domestic fleet for a while yet, in fact they will still be around when the 787 arrives, and beyond.

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 44):

AFAIK, no further meeting is required, though I am not 100% certain.

I think it was Gasman I spoke to, but yes, its looking likely the 777 will now arrive last week of Oct/early November. Will provide dates (in my signature) when I get a definite.

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planemanofnz
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 41):

Are all of the NZ 737's converted into express class configuration?, just asking because I was wondering are the AKL-Norfolk Island and NAN-RAR flights a one-class flight? Also, any1 got any idea how many 747ADVs NZ wld order (if it did?)
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:41 am

With NZ getting new aircraft are their any new gateways in North America being looked at in addition to the already serviced LAX, SFO, and HNL? I would think YVR might not be bad.
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 43):
ADL is already served by QF, from AKL, 3x weekly,

Yea but with poor depature times. NZ could do well with say 12pm depature from AKL.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 46):
Are all of the NZ 737's converted into express class configuration?,

Yes

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 46):
just asking because I was wondering are the AKL-Norfolk Island and NAN-RAR flights a one-class flight?

The International flights that are serviced by B737s (if any) are routes that don't require business class and routes that have poor loadings/yelds. Norfold Island is considered a leasure route so no business class on that route
 
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RE: ANZ Interested In 747 Advanced!

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Adam T. (Reply 47):

Denver might be an option because of connections with United around the U.S and it wld provide an alternative to connecting to europe with lufthansa, how long wld YVR-AKL take?

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