deltaguy767
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DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:03 am

Hello All,
I was just thinking when DL exits BK and reorganizes free of it's 762's 737-200's and 300's what will they do next. I'm thinking about 10 years from now when the Mad Dogs will be quite old and they will have to go along with the older 757's. What will DL buy to replace these aircraft? I know that DL has orders and options for 737-800's and 777-200's buy can we see DL buying the 787 in the future to compensate for the gap in their fleet? Also what will other airlines in the US that are in trouble now do with their fleets? NW will have to get rid of those 9's and 10's soon and UA will probably get rid of the older 737's along with CO who has already ordered some 787's. What are your thoughts?

From BDL(yep we've had the 764 once)
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
fewsolarge
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:51 am

Delta's simplified fleet plan:

777 (expect these to increase, perhaps adding -300 or LR)
764
763 (expect these to be replaced with 787s)
757 (eventual replacement with 737NGs)
737NG (maybe the -700 and -900 will merit consideration)

MD88/90 (phase-out announced, but this will take time)
762 (gone by end of 2005)
732 (identified for near term phase-out, details unclear)
733 "
737G "

Expect some solution for 70-100 seat aircraft

All of this, of course, assumes a successful exit from bankruptcy. Other factors that cannot be anticipated, but which could possibly play out:

Merger with a carrier operating a large number of Airbuses;
Nullification of the 20-year deal with Boeing and a blockbuster order with Airbus.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:57 am

Here's my take


DL Mainline long term fleet if they survive as an independent entity:

737-800

737-900 (for the lower demand and shorter route of the 757 retirees)

787s of 2 or even 3 sizes (One size to replace the upper demand end of the 757, one size to replace the 767, and maybe the laegest to replace the 777)

777 (even these may be retired in favor of the largest 787 version)
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:06 am

Here's my take (just so I dont' get left out)...

787-8 Ultra Long haul international
787-9 Long haul international
777-2 Short haul international
757-2 (Song) Transcon domesticate
737-8 Medium hall domesticate
E90AR Medium hall domesticate
E70AR Short hall domesticate
CRJ-2 Small to Mid size Point-2-Point or point-to-hub
Aiming High and going far..
 
7e72004
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:16 am

Here is my take:

737-800 (domestic flights)

737-900 (long haul domestic flights)

787 (international flights)

777 (international flights)

E170 (smaller to medium flights-US)

Canadair rj (smaller to medium flights-US)

cheers  Smile
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
tinpusher007
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
Here's my take (just so I dont' get left out)...

787-8 Ultra Long haul international
787-9 Long haul international
777-2 Short haul international
757-2 (Song) Transcon domesticate
737-8 Medium hall domesticate
E90AR Medium hall domesticate
E70AR Short hall domesticate
CRJ-2 Small to Mid size Point-2-Point or point-to-hub

I really can't see DL holding on to 8 772 ER's which have range in excess of 7,000NM for "short haul" int'l flights. I think once DL gets their hands on the 787 they will do away with their 777's altogther. The 787 is a much better fit for DL's network and would be a much more efficient aircraft for them than the 777. Sad but true, Im afraid.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 5):
I really can't see DL holding on to 8 772 ER's which have range in excess of 7,000NM for "short haul" int'l flights. I think once DL gets their hands on the 787 they will do away with their 777's altogther. The 787 is a much better fit for DL's network and would be a much more efficient aircraft for them than the 777. Sad but true, Im afraid.

interesting. I could see just the opposite.. I could see DL holding on to their 777 flights for use in Western Europe and South America.. I could see them ordering a few 787 (perhaps 4 8-version and 4-5 9-version) for their much longer destinations (India, China, Japan, Australia). I think much like the MD88, the 777 and 757 will be a staple of the fleet..
Aiming High and going far..
 
VS747SPUR
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:29 pm

Does anyone know how old DL's MD-80s are and when they could need replacing ? and what by ?

Best regards,
VS747SPUR
Fly DL
 
EddieDude
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Australia

DL does not fly to Australia and in all likelihood will not do it in the future.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DeltaWings
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:15 am

sorry, but why should DL retire the 777? The 787 is not big enough to replace the 777 (and nothing is shure yeet about the 787-10!). I can see DL in the future definetly ordering the 787 though, both -8 and -9 to suppliment the 763/4 fleet and eventually to replace of course. The 783 may also be considered. I can see the 789 opening new routes fro DL, that have been out of reach of the 767, but which couldnt suppliment a 777 though.
More 737s (-800 and 900ER) will replace the Mad Dogs and 757s. It will be most logical to have a 737/777/787 fleet. Plus, having the 777 in the fleet will give them a better option to get the 773 if they would ever need a bigger a/c.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
dairbus
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:20 am

Delta's MD88's are between 12-18 years old with an average age of 15.3 years. I don't expect them to be replaced for another 5 years but It is something they need to start planning for now.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
tinpusher007
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
sorry, but why should DL retire the 777? The 787 is not big enough to replace the 777 (and nothing is shure yeet about the 787-10!). I can see DL in the future definetly ordering the 787 though, both -8 and -9 to suppliment the 763/4 fleet and eventually to replace of course. The 783 may also be considered. I can see the 789 opening new routes fro DL, that have been out of reach of the 767, but which couldnt suppliment a 777 though.
More 737s (-800 and 900ER) will replace the Mad Dogs and 757s. It will be most logical to have a 737/777/787 fleet. Plus, having the 777 in the fleet will give them a better option to get the 773 if they would ever need a bigger a/c.

The only route currently flown by DL that needs the range of the 772ER is ATL-NRT. All of the other routes use the 777 simply for capacity. But even then, there are very few routes that actually see double daily 777 services. Moreover, the 777 is rotated on and off certain routes depending on time of year. All of this says to me that the capacity and range of the 772ER is generally not imperative to DL's int'l network if something more efficient (787) is available. The vast majority of DL's european network is served by the 763ER. It's probably a fair bet to say that some of them could use more capacity than the 763 can offer, but not up to the size of the 777 which is why I maintain that the 787 would be a better match.

Assuming that the Boeing produces some version of the 787 that offers similar capacity to the 777, I don't see why DL would need their small fleet of 8 777's unless maybe they expand into Asia, but DL has shown very little interest in this market with the exception of India.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
deltaguy767
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting DAirbus (Reply 10):
Delta's MD88's are between 12-18 years old with an average age of 15.3 years. I don't expect them to be replaced for another 5 years but It is something they need to start planning for now.

Exactly, along with those 757's which need to be replaced within the next 10 years as they are goeeing old as well. This is a big undertaking as DL has 120 MD-88's and 121 757's almost 1/3 of the fleet will need to be replace within the next 10 years and that's not including the 762's and 737 older versions which could amount to nearly 1/2 of the fleet being retired in the next 10 years. IN the next 20 years we can expect the 763's to be gone as well which DL has about 75 of I believe causing about 65-70% of the DL fleet as we know it today being retired in the next 15-20 years. Along with their financial planning DL should be very concerned about its fleet replacement over the next 10 years. (If they survive  pray  )

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4):
Here is my take:

737-800 (domestic flights)

737-900 (long haul domestic flights)

787 (international flights)

777 (international flights)

E170 (smaller to medium flights-US)

Canadair rj (smaller to medium flights-US)

I happen to agree with your analysis of your proposed future of DL's fleet the most.

Cheers from BDL,
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
tinpusher007
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RE: DL And The Future Of Its Fleet (Other Airlines Too)

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4):
Here is my take:

737-800 (domestic flights)

737-900 (long haul domestic flights)

787 (international flights)

777 (international flights)

E170 (smaller to medium flights-US)

Canadair rj (smaller to medium flights-US)

I happen to agree with your analysis of your proposed future of DL's fleet the most.

I agree with your analysis of the fleet planning except for one small thing. The 737-900 really isn't a "long haul" aircraft. It has less range than the -800. Now Boeing does have the 737-900ER but I think the range of that even falls short of the -800 and the -700 for that matter. That said, I do agree that DL will have either version in its fleet, but the 737-900 will be a high density domestic aircraft that will take over many former 757 routes whenever DL decides to replace them.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

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