md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:20 am

Hey my fellow a.netters, I've got a question I know AA inherited their STL operation from the late TW, but do they consider it a hub??   Do they have any plans to add any new flights there?? They applied for STL-PVR, STL-HOU, and I think STL-PNS/VPS   . But basically what is going on at STL these days?? Where do they fly to from there besides: CID,MCI,MSY,JFK,EWR,LGA,BWI,DFW,HOU,FLL,MCO,TPA,RSW,LAX,AUS,ORD, MIA,ABQ,LAS,SFO,SEA,VPS,CLT/RDU,BOS,MSP,SGF,LIT??

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[Edited 2005-10-01 19:31:53]
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STLUAL747
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:19 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:45 am

Well there is not a whole lot going here in STL theses days. We no longer see any widewody service except when there is a late equipment change to DFW and that may happen maybe once every few months if we are lucky. There is no talk of adding a lot of flights back but you will see an add on there a pull back there but nothing major. If you talk to STLgph he will tell you he thinks AA will begin a pull back of flights eventually. There has also been talk of a LGW flight but I won't believe until I see it. Well that's about where STL stands right now.

Josh
Lonely in Deserted St. Louis.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:26 am

The only widebodies you see here have purple or brown tails. Aside from that, there is, as STLUAL said, nothing going on here. This place has been quiet since November 2003 when AA cut a ton of flights. They recently announced that they will quit using the B concourse and have all ops take place in C. I have a feeling that this will result in a cut because I don't see how they'll have all those props sitting in between C and D.
DMI
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):
I have a feeling that this will result in a cut because I don't see how they'll have all those props sitting in between C and D.

They'll all be on the end of Concourse C starting October 29th. Meaning they'll "surround" the tip of "C" Concourse.

Regards

[Edited 2005-10-01 20:52:33]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Whataboutme
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:56 am

Having to agree, not much happening. I believe in thr future, way in the future we might see STL build back up with AA, like after they buy NW. Why would they want MSP or DTW as hubs, They will move NW ops to STL.
side note " I am kidding about AA buying NW ".
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:20 am

They don't fly to MCI anymore or PNS, but they offer service to BOS, BDL, DCA, IAD, PHL, EWR, RIC, ORF, BWI, CMH, DAY, CLT, RDU, JAX, MIA, MCO, RSW, TPA, FLL, CUN, MSY, BTR, HOU, BNA, MEM, CID, DSM, MSP. MKE, IND, ORD, DFW, OKC, AUS, LIT, TUL, DEN, SPI, ATL, LAX, LAS, SEA, SAN, SNA, SFO, SAT, BMI, VPS, BRL, CGI, CMI, COU, DEC, EVV, XNA, TBN, ICT, MKL, JLN, MSN, MWA, LGA, JFK, OWB, PAH, PIA, UIN, SGF. There are some destinations probably missing. They operate about 221 daily flights and STLUAL747 summed it up very well. You probably won't see a lot happen, but there will be flights added and dropped, nothing major.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:32 am

Until the region around St. Louis has the economic horsepower necessary to support a major airline hub, one will not return to STL.

I believe STL is a focus city for AA. That role will diminish as oil prices continue to rise.

Within a couple of years, look for AA to fly only to their hubs from STL. The Connection flights will probably be rerouted through ORD or eliminated.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
I believe STL is a focus city for AA.

No, it is a hub, their fourth largest.

In terms of new service, don't look for anything major. They just added a daily ERJ to Baton Rouge.
a.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:22 am

STL is still considered a hub by AA. I know there are some naysayers on here that will say that AA will cut back in the future. While anything is possible, I believe if AA does not merge with anyone that they will keep AA as their smaller midwest hub. Its has been mentioned on here and in the St Louis media that when AA "right-sized" the STL hub it has been a money maker for them. The AA STL hub also serves many smaller midwest communities, for example, Kirksville MO, Burlington IA, Quincy IL, etc., through EAS service under the American Connection banner. You really wouldn't want to shift all of those flights to capacity strained ORD. With the ongoing delays at ORD and STL adding a new runway, flights could increase, but alas, the hub won't be anywhere near the size was it was in the TWA days and shortly after when AA inherited it. The hub there is similar in size to CO's in CLE ot NW's in MEM.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):
I have a feeling that this will result in a cut because I don't see how they'll have all those props sitting in between C and D.

actually, AA has not been using the end of C for a while, and this is where the prop flights will run out of. It will probably be a much more bustling place now that all of AA's flights will be operated from the C concourse.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
I believe STL is a focus city for AA. That role will diminish as oil prices continue to rise.

American isn't going anywhere. Its a very profitable domestic station for AA as a result of about 8 or 9 really strong routes. If they had intentions of leaving, or diminishing its role, it would have happened by now. American has shown us its tolerance for under performing focus cities/mini hubs ala SJC and RDU.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
In terms of new service, don't look for anything major.

That has pretty much been American's MO in St.Louis. Add a little here, give a little there. The schedule has been adjusted/re-adjusted over the past two years. Several weak routes have been cut like PHX, PIT, CVG, LAF, and on the other hand several have been added LIT, OKC, TUL, HOU, JFK, RIC, and VPS. It all equates to a whole lot of nothing, really.

Boeing nut,

Why would they put the props at the end of concourse C? Wouldn't it just make more sense to move both the rj's and mainline flights down further?
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
Until the region around St. Louis has the economic horsepower necessary to support a major airline hub, one will not return to STL.

Never say never, rumor was B6 or FL wanted to start a focus city, but sadly that diminished, especially FL rumors, so who knows. B6 may/will start flights with the E-190 to JFK probably and who knows what other cities? Focus city? maybe, but doubtful.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):

I believe STL is a focus city for AA. That role will diminish as oil prices continue to rise.

AA considers it a Hub, a profitable one too liike Mark said. It is 4th in the 5 hubs, DFW, ORD, MIA, STL and JFK. (am I right?). Oil prices have already affected AA and made them cut back nearly 16 flights, and not one of them was from STL. Why? becausde STL is now to profitable to change anything, it was "right sized" and every flight at STL counts now, for now.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
Within a couple of years, look for AA to fly only to their hubs from STL. The Connection flights will probably be rerouted through ORD or eliminated.

I find this so hard to believe, what about Washingtond DC area, New York Cities? They are just way to prfitable and high business people routes out of STL for AA to just drop it. AA will NOT let these routes go. What AA has at STL is just perfect, any more, theyd lose money, any less, theyd loose money. I see some being tweaked as Mark said they added one RJ route, but never cities being dropped like that.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
It is 4th in the 5 hubs, DFW, ORD, MIA, STL and JFK. (am I right?).

The fifth American hub is San Juan, Puerto Rico. Truth be told, however, that if you combined American's operations at LaGuardia and Kennedy, you might as well have a sixth hub, however, the problem is that connections between the two airports, while bookable, are nearly impossible.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:04 am

How big was their BNA operation when they had it?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
commavia
Posts: 9791
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

New STL Route Loaded Tomorrow

Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:09 am

FYI: I heard from someone in the know that a new STL route is going to be loaded into the schedules. It's a city that has seen AA/Eagle service before, but hasn't been in the AA network for a few years. It's in Florida. Should be loaded tomorrow...

[Edited 2005-10-02 01:09:23]
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:53 am

Does STL show as a hub on www.AA.com?

Regards.

[Edited 2005-10-02 02:17:00]
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:08 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
FYI: I heard from someone in the know that a new STL route is going to be loaded into the schedules. It's a city that has seen AA/Eagle service before, but hasn't been in the AA network for a few years. It's in Florida. Should be loaded tomorrow...

ya SRQ, Mark, (MAH) posted it.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
commavia
Posts: 9791
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:16 am

AA777jr -- the changes you outline have already happened. AA isn't planning on substantially shrinking STL anymore. They're happy with the financial performance of STL, which is -- apparently -- excellent.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:20 am

How is their STL hub anyway? like in terms of concessions, cleanliness etc? any good spotting area's in the AA side? I go through there on Jan. 2nd returning from PSP to BOS via DFW and STL. The STL-BOS is on an ERJ-135(my first ERJ-135 flight).
 
Indy
Posts: 3957
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:20 am

Even if AA doesn't consider it a hub it is still a hub. 200+ flights a day with connecting service. Thats a hub.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
flyibaby
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:29 am

I don't think they will touch STL anymore (reduction wise.) It makes too much sense to keep it at current levels especially in cases where ORD or DFW experiences bad weather. Very convienent to re-route passengers and divert A/C bound to their primary hubs.
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:35 am

I consider STL as AA's alternative hub. Or mini-hub.  crackup 
Airliners.net of the Future
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:36 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 17):
How is their STL hub anyway? like in terms of concessions, cleanliness etc? any good spotting area's in the AA side? I go through there on Jan. 2nd returning from PSP to BOS via DFW and STL. The STL-BOS is on an ERJ-135(my first ERJ-135 flight).

There have been vast improvements in the past few years. Concourse C, which is where AA is housed, has seen several additions. I believe there has been a Chili's, Wolf Gang puck, Brooks Brothers, CNBC store, and a Jose Cuervo that is due to be put in in the coming months.

It's also cleaner than it used to be. New carpeting, cleaner bathrooms, and brighter lights help the terminal look presentable (minus the end of concourse C). It used to draw comparisons to DTW's old terminal, but after the past couple years or so I wouldn't say its a valid comparison.

Checklist-
New restaurants (check)
New carpet (check)
electronic gate monitors (.....waiting)

There isn't much to get excited about as far as spotting. A 757 here or there, and thats about it. Concourse C presents excellent spotting opportunities everywhere, as it extends along the paralell runways.
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1706
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 20):
I consider STL as AA's alternative hub. Or mini-hub.

Relief hub, perhaps?  Wink
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:42 am

Why doesn't AA list STL as a hub on their site?

By the way, their site, www.AA.com, it lagging majorly in the area of keeping it updated and facutal.

I would encourage any young bright minds out their with half a sense in IT or Webbing to fire off an email to AA and tell them you want the job of webmaster.

Thanks for clarifications.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
commavia
Posts: 9791
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 23):
Why doesn't AA list STL as a hub on their site?

It does.

If you view the "Where we Fly" link under "About Us" drop-down menu on the left-hand side of the page, and view the Central U.S. map, it clears shows St. Louis as a hub.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 22):
Relief hub, perhaps?

No question. With ORD expansion apparently underway, there will be delays there, more so than there are now so if AA feels the need to shift certain flights to STL, they can do so. With the consolidation of all AA/AX flights into the "C" Concourse there will be approximately 210-220 flights per day. AA could easily get 60-80 more daily flights in and out of STL without much difficulty...
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 23):
Why doesn't AA list STL as a hub on their site

it does, go to this link:
http://www.aa.com/content/aboutUs/whereWeFly/maps/sc_us_aa.jhtml

per the description at the bottom:"Cities in bold blue type link to that city's airport terminal map. Hub cities are shown in all caps"
St. Louis is listed as all caps.
 
Thrust
Posts: 2585
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:31 am

STL is showing increasing potential, in my opinion at least, as becoming greater than it currently is. There is only talk so far, but pretty much the only thing AA is doing at STL is adding flights, not cutting them back. I would think this of being indicative that if STL is not an AA hub, it is certainly a very important city to AA. STL potentially could serve as a good connection status hub for AA...it was working well with TWA when it also had its JFK hub shortly before the explosion of TWA Flight 800...had that accident not happened, I would've assumed TWA could've risen to dominate again...their stock price was soaring from early 1996 up to July 17th of that year. If STL is not an AA hub already, I would think of it as a potential one, not like DFW or ORD, but at least as more than what it currently is as of this date.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:53 am

I am sure AA won’t increase its STL hub because AMR wants to cut costs.
The acquisition of TWA was to eliminate a competing airline, and not to enable a long-term service expansion.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:56 am

what about restarting its BNA operation?  Big grin
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:06 pm

Yes!! STL-DSM is going 5x ER4 on weekdays, finally those Junkstreams are off that route! Smile
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:09 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 12):
How big was their BNA operation when they had it?

The BNA hub was about as big as the STL hub today, well over 200 flights. Here is a link with some good info on the BNA and RDU hubs:

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/Networks/AABNARDU.html
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:12 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 30):
Yes!! STL-DSM is going 5x ER4

wish they could upgrade some of those J41's out of CID during the day. I am a little surprised they haven't as they look like they go out pretty full. At least we now have the evening ER4 to STL.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:16 pm

Funny part about the AA success story in St. Louis is that AA was going to turn it into a 5 city station (LGA/LAX/DFW/MIA/ORD) a couple nights before the cuts were announced. It took a last ditch effort by Mayor Slay and the Col. Leonard Griggs to save what they could (208 daily departures, 53 mainline).

Over 2 years later AA is probably glad they didn't cut it all together. I would say NW would have a focus city here if it weren't for Mayor Slay's efforts. Oh well....glad things turned out the way they did.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 33):
I would say NW would have a focus city here if it weren't for Mayor Slay's efforts. Oh well....glad things turned out the way they did.

I would be very curious to see how it would have turned out, seeing a NWA focus city. would we see less, more or the same of what AA offers. would it be mainline? RJ. so many things to ponder. but as you said its nice what AA gives us now.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:39 pm

If AA did make the cuts as planned and leave only the 5 cities, do you think NW would have set up shop? WOuld they have had both IND and STL as focus cities? I would almost think that if NW did set up a focus city at STL that IND would not have become as big as a focus city it is today.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
flyibaby
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 31):
The BNA hub was about as big as the STL hub today, well over 200 flights. Here is a link with some good info on the BNA and RDU hubs:

The linked article is right for the most part, but the RDU hub closed about a year before it states. Midway was hubbed in AA's place at RDU late 94.
 
aircraftpm
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:52 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:31 pm

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 28):
I am sure AA won’t increase its STL hub because AMR wants to cut costs.
The acquisition of TWA was to eliminate a competing airline, and not to enable a long-term service expansion.

That may have been part of it, but AA had said way back when the merger was taking place that they were specifically interested in TW's STL ops so they could add another mid-continent hub. DFW and ORD are packed tight, especially ORD, and with their notorious weather delays during late fall, winter and early spring STL is a good alternative to funnel connection traffic through.

I think AA had high hopes for STL but 9/11 changed all the airlines' expansion and long term plans. STL fell victim to the "wrong place, wrong time" situation.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting Aircraftpm (Reply 37):
That may have been part of it, but AA had said way back when the merger was taking place that they were specifically interested in TW's STL ops so they could add another mid-continent hub. DFW and ORD are packed tight, especially ORD, and with their notorious weather delays during late fall, winter and early spring STL is a good alternative to funnel connection traffic through.

I think AA had high hopes for STL but 9/11 changed all the airlines' expansion and long term plans. STL fell victim to the "wrong place, wrong time" situation

I think you pretty much got it right. AT THE TIME, STL was an amazing airport, had everything AA wanted for a midconitnent hub, then 9/11 happened. At the time, STL didn't offer enough to run it after 9/11 so AA cut back. But now as the weather builds, and the new runway gets in place at STL, we will see hopefulyl more flights into STL.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:38 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 9):
Boeing nut,

Why would they put the props at the end of concourse C? Wouldn't it just make more sense to move both the rj's and mainline flights down further?

NOt really. Passenger access is easier with the gates being closer to the check points. With the props further down, yea, some passengers will have to walk all the way down, but not nearly as many. Also, a majority of the people who fly the props are connecting flights anyways.

By the way, I don't know what the layout a parking arrangements will be, but I assume that they (AA Connection) will "stagger park" the aircraft like they do now at Concourse B and passengers will have to walk across the ramp. Yea,....still.

You will still see mainline aircraft park at the end of "C" after the move, but AA will not be permitted to use the jetways without prior arrangements from the Airport Authority. As of now, AA mailine parking at the end of C Concourse will only be for RON parking.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:45 pm

Boeing Nut,

Do you know of their intentions for the end of concourse C? Something simply must be done before they start using it. The pics that I have seen are just awful.....
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:54 pm

I would expect AA to add a flight here or there to STL, simply because growth is virtually impossible at ORD. But there won't be anything near the size of the TWA hub for a long time.

Now, if one of the carriers in Chapter 11 went out of business, that might be a different story.
 
commavia
Posts: 9791
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 41):
I would expect AA to add a flight here or there to STL, simply because growth is virtually impossible at ORD. But there won't be anything near the size of the TWA hub for a long time.

I think that's a pretty good summary.

Long-term, IMO, AA is only going up from where they now are at STL -- especially given the capacity constraints at ORD right now and that they are only going to get worse (more delays, more ATC holds) before they get better (new runways, barring no more court orders).
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 40):
Boeing Nut,

Do you know of their intentions for the end of concourse C? Something simply must be done before they start using it. The pics that I have seen are just awful.....

Don't rush to judgement on C concourse appearances. Pictures don't do it justice. It's much worse than that!!!  vomit  I walked through the old Boeing facility before FEMA turned it into "Lambertville" for Katrina evacuees. Stale, musty........... the end of C concourse was just a little bit better than that.  worried 

UPDATE

I made some calls. The move is not stated to happen before the turn of the year. The good news is, according to the Trans States person I talked to, indicated that the reason for the move not happening until then is so that construction projects can take place.  crossfingers  Hopefully this means what we think it means. If I find out more, I'll let everyone know.

Regards.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 43):
I made some calls. The move is not stated to happen before the turn of the year. The good news is, according to the Trans States person I talked to, indicated that the reason for the move not happening until then is so that construction projects can take place. Hopefully this means what we think it means. If I find out more, I'll let everyone know.

Are there any plans to remove any of the jetways at the end of the concourse? Possibly gates 35,36,37 or will they be left intact?

Sounds like the plan is to turn this into a commuter waiting area, and if the pics Alex had here a while back are an indication any future international service will be moot, since all of the glass partitions to the Customs/Immigration area have been removed.

Thanks for the update...
 
reins485
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:50 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 29):
what about restarting its BNA operation?

AA would never restart a hub at BNA, both of my parents were based there for AA and it was always a small one with I think around 100 pilots at a given time if I remember correctly. My mom for a time flew the BNA-LGW but AA killed the flight b/c they were dropping connections. AA only has flights to LGA, DFW, ORD and MIA and then they have a few AE flights but they are actually dropped the Tri-cities service. AA used to have the C and D concourse at BNA but now D is pretty much shut down and C has had half of its gates removed and WN has like 10 gates I think in C now with AA only having 6 gates. But I was talking to a guy who works for WN at BNA and said the airport wanted more flights but WN said that there are no more pax to support anymore flights.
 
FlyBoy84
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 38):
I think you pretty much got it right. AT THE TIME, STL was an amazing airport, had everything AA wanted for a midconitnent hub, then 9/11 happened. At the time, STL didn't offer enough to run it after 9/11 so AA cut back. But now as the weather builds, and the new runway gets in place at STL, we will see hopefulyl more flights into STL.

When AA took over TW (it was never really a merger), I knew this was going to happen given their history with BNA, RDU, and SJC. City leaders made such a big deal of the whole thing; I'm surprised that Griggs didn't see it coming. Were people here so naive that they thought it was beyond the realm of imagination for this to happen in St. Louis?

For me, 9/11 was nothing more than the perfect excuse. If it hadn't been that, then it would've been any combination of the other reasons why AA cut back (lack of O&D compared to the other hubs; fuel costs; too close to ORD, and so on and so forth).

AFAIC, AA can pack it up and just leave flights to their hubs if US ever wanted to start a more significant US presence, but with the UA/Star Alliance program...fat chance of that happening!

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 43):
I made some calls. The move is not stated to happen before the turn of the year. The good news is, according to the Trans States person I talked to, indicated that the reason for the move not happening until then is so that construction projects can take place. crossfingers Hopefully this means what we think it means. If I find out more, I'll let everyone know.

What, praytell, would this mean?

If STL wants to condtruct anything, the can start by tearing down all the concourses and building a single strip like DTW is doing with its North Terminal!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Reins485 (Reply 45):
AA only has flights to LGA, DFW, ORD and MIA and then they have a few AE flights but they are actually dropped the Tri-cities service.

They still fly BNA-LAX with a daily MD80 as well. In addition to STL and DCA service on Connection/Eagle.
a.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9057
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
I find this so hard to believe, what about Washingtond DC area, New York Cities? They are just way to prfitable and high business people routes out of STL for AA to just drop it

You get more frequency out of RJ's than you do with mainline flights. Frequency appeals more to the business world than the offerings of mainline service.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
Within a couple of years, look for AA to fly only to their hubs from STL. The Connection flights will probably be rerouted through ORD or eliminated.

Agreed. Especially when the ORD expansion is finished.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 17):
How is their STL hub anyway? like in terms of concessions, cleanliness etc? any good spotting area's in the AA side?

It's near disgusting.

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 19):
It makes too much sense to keep it at current levels especially in cases where ORD or DFW experiences bad weather.

Saying a hub experiences "bad weather" is a lame excuse. You can have bad weather in another part of the country which will drastically affect any hub.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 25):
With ORD expansion apparently underway, there will be delays there, more so than there are now so if AA feels the need to shift certain flights to STL, they can do so.

As I said, then when the ORD expansion is finished....

Quoting Thrust (Reply 27):
There is only talk so far, but pretty much the only thing AA is doing at STL is adding flights, not cutting them back

Please differentiate between AA and AA Connection carriers.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 33):
Funny part about the AA success story in St. Louis is that AA was going to turn it into a 5 city station (LGA/LAX/DFW/MIA/ORD) a couple nights before the cuts were announced. It took a last ditch effort by Mayor Slay and the Col. Leonard Griggs to save what they could (208 daily departures, 53 mainline).

Somewhat true. It took the commitment of Trans States to buy/lease/operate more regional jets along many routes for AA to mainline a large presence here. For the most part, AA does serve just a few cities.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 38):
I think you pretty much got it right. AT THE TIME, STL was an amazing airport, had everything AA wanted for a midconitnent hub, then 9/11 happened.

Incorrect. Lambert is a near nightmare in design for AA ops and the W-1W Project costs coming in weren't helping matters either. AA realized this after they bought TWA. Many routes from Lambert on AA overlapped with other spoke destinations from AA hubs and were some of the first to be trimmed after the take over...which was just the precedent for Nov 1, 2003.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Whataboutme
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 am

RE: AA STL Hub

Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:16 am

Well yes AA did alot to SJC, BNA, RDU and STL, but don't forget what AA did to Reno Air and their Reno ops. It wasn't that large of a hub for Reno Air, but AA dropped everything out of Reno except DFW, ORD. They tired to keep RNO/LAX, but that was not profitable so that was dropped to later be picked up by AS. Not living in RNO any more I don't know if AS still flies RNO/LAX.
Peace Out

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