SA7700
Topic Author
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:18 pm

I have been a bit out of touch the last couple of weeks with A.net. Does anybody know how SA is doing on the "new" Washington route? What are the loads like for instance - I imagine JNB-ACC-JNB is doing well, but how about the ACC-IAD-ACC section?


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
Reggaebird
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:43 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:50 am

I flew IAD-ACC-JNB on August 11th and JNB-ACC-IAD on August 23rd in Business class. On the outbound leg, my cabin and the First class cabin were about 40% occupied from Washington to Accra and 100%/80% full, respectively, from Accra to Jo'burg. Coming home, both cabins were full from Jo'burg to Accra and about 60% full to Washington. I did not get a sense of the loads in the Economy cabin.

Reggaebird
 
soups
Posts: 3220
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:41 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:43 am

SAA applied to fly daily to ACC (not sure if the other 3 will conitue to IAD) and LOS.
The NAA refused the application cause VK will be starting this route very soon.
the ACC is still pending tho.
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:17 am

Does anyone have the official date for SAA to enter Star Alliance? Once they enter the alliance,it would be interesting to see if UA and US can get the local rights to sell IAD-ACC. I don't know why it's taken SAA so long to officially enter the alliance,I suspect it may possibly be that they are waiting to complete the IT platform switch to Amadeus,which is the front-runner to be the common platform for most,if not all Star Alliance members. I would be very curious if anyone has information on any future codesharing with AC?
 
willyj
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:32 am

Raggaebird, any chance we might get to see a trip report on that flight? Also, have you flown on their other services from JFK or ATL? I'm planning on talking one of those flights in a few months and just wanted to hear any preferences to the 744/346/343. Thanks.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:48 am

I happened to wander past the boarding area for this flight at IAD on Labor Day Monday last month and there were MAYBE 100 people sitting around at most. This was right before they started boarding.

Obviously, this is just one day's example but coupled with Reggaebird's post, things don't sound too good.

But the plane sure was a beauty sitting at the gate! Shiny white with the colorful tail...
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
AF022
Posts: 1638
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:38 pm

The departure hour from IAD is god-awful. I'd rather go up to JFK and have an evening departure than even leave from my own gateway that early.
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 6):
The departure hour from IAD is god-awful. I'd rather go up to JFK and have an evening departure than even leave from my own gateway that early

It's worth nothing only JFK has an SAA aircraft sit all day on the apron,whereas the ATL and IAD flights turn in a couple of hours. From a inbound connections point of view,I would say the JFK flight wins. One should never forget that airlines are in business to make money,so if it's not moving,it's not making money! In a perfect world,airlines would have lots of extra aircraft and could allow for perfect departure times. The reality is far from that.

[Edited 2005-10-03 06:32:21]
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:42 pm

SA has to allocate a certain amount of seats for IAD/JNB in addition to the rest that are allocated to ACC/JNB. By definition it can't be that full on IAD/ACC since they have no traffic rights for the local segment. Unless they do not pick up a single soul in ACC, there will always be a lot fewer pax on IAD/ACC than ACC/JNB.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:19 pm

Rumour is that IAD will go to a daily service with SAA, finally, completing their Star Alliance membership. SAA has an allocation of 18 weekly flights to the USA. With Atlanta service being discontinued at a TBD date, 4 frequencies will transfer to Dulles and the other three will go to re-opening their Miami station.
a.
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 6):
The departure hour from IAD is god-awful. I'd rather go up to JFK and have an evening departure than even leave from my own gateway that early.

I found this to be the case as well, especially with say, if on the east coast, having to leave home airport (if connecting at IAD) by 6AM the latest. However, this departure time is quite ideal for folks connecting from the west coast, who would get into IAD at 6AM following a red eye. This is an alternative to having to connect at ATL at 1030, which means a lengthy connection time at that airport. So, those in the east coast not wanting to leave home at 6AM, can now do so at 8AM to connect at ATL. Those wishing to leave later on in the day can do so via JFK.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
SA has to allocate a certain amount of seats for IAD/JNB in addition to the rest that are allocated to ACC/JNB. By definition it can't be that full on IAD/ACC since they have no traffic rights for the local segment. Unless they do not pick up a single soul in ACC, there will always be a lot fewer pax on IAD/ACC than ACC/JNB.

Considering the sacking of nonstop flights from North America by SAA, the flight has to stop somewhere. Even if IAD is not doing good enough, at least the whole route is not in that same basket. We also know that SAA's * entry has not fully kicked in, and we still don't have a UA code on the flight to JNB. Once this happens, with UA's marketing in its home turf, we could see this route become a success.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 10):
Once this happens, with SA)">UA's marketing in its home turf, we could see this route become a success.

That still won't fix the problem as long as SA has no rights on IAD/ACC--you'll still have to allocate revenue to IAD/JNB and leave enough revenue 'room' for ACC/JNB. It's very similar to the problem VS is having on LHR/HKG/SYD, except VS has pax rights on all segments whereas SA does not. Perhaps the route--if it's doing bad at all--would do better if it stopped in a place where very few people get on/off...like the ATL/SID/JNB routing.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
That still won't fix the problem as long as SA has no rights on IAD/ACC--you'll still have to allocate revenue to IAD/JNB and leave enough revenue 'room' for ACC/JNB. It's very similar to the problem VS is having on LHR/HKG/SYD, except VS has pax rights on all segments whereas SA does not. Perhaps the route--if it's doing bad at all--would do better if it stopped in a place where very few people get on/off...like the ATL/SID/JNB routing.

True, but I was suggesting that IAD-JNB could be considered as a route on its own, without ACC being a factor, and do much better than it does now with UA's input.

Btw, what's with the other routes, JFK and ATL no longer being nonstop eastbound? What turned out to be the actual reason? The Airbii not performing as expected? If so, then why not dispatch the B744 as they used to?

I am sure it is working out well for SAA as it is, or would otherwise have seen some change since the arrival of the A346s. Also, JFK is no longer worthy of a B744's capacity, since it is now regularly operated by a A343.
 
ETStar
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:46 pm

Btw, anyone noticed that no F class is offered ex-JFK and ATL? Only the IAD-JNB has F class. The others are with J and Y only.
 
andz
Posts: 7627
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:03 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 13):
Btw, anyone noticed that no F class is offered ex-JFK and ATL? Only the IAD-JNB has F class. The others are with J and Y only.

This is because IAD is with a 744 and the others are 2 class 340s
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:56 pm

In late August I flew the IAD-ACC-JNB flight. I was on the upper deck and the load factor appeared to be about 70% or so. When we got to JNB, it was close, if not at 100%.

Anyway have any idea when the ATL flights stop? I am currently booked to return via ATL in late November. I wanted to fly on a 346, so... Why not?!

Regarding the departure time for the IAD-JNB flight... It is rather early. I wouldn't have minded it being a later, but oh well. I must say that I was impressed with how quickly they can turn that bird around.

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
andz
Posts: 7627
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:34 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 15):
Anyway have any idea when the ATL flights stop? I am currently booked to return via ATL in late November. I wanted to fly on a 346, so... Why not?!

I heard at least 2 years after Star entry.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 16):
I heard at least 2 years after Star entry.

Well, I guess I don't have anything to worry about!  Big grin

When I come back in January for 2 weeks, maybe I will fly the JFK route, even though it is more expensive.

Another question. I get Delta miles for my flights on SAA. Will that likely change if and when SAA joins Star Alliance?

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
willyj
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:42 am

Yes, eventually you won't earn DL skymiles on South African. Normally this takes a few months to go into effect - such as with LX and AA.

On a side note, have SAA finished reconfiguring their Airbus economy sections or is it still 31"? I haven't heard as many complaints recently so hopefully they have.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 15):

Anyway have any idea when the ATL flights stop?

I've heard it will end in October 2006. Since winter is peak travel from South Africa to the US, this will allow them to re-start MIA at peak travel periods. They also want to get back into MIA before giving Nationwide a chance to launch the route.
a.
 
willyj
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:53 am

Would they be using the 346 from MIA? Also, could they make this flight nonstop on the eastbound flight?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Willyj (Reply 20):
Would they be using the 346 from MIA? Also, could they make this flight nonstop on the eastbound flight?

As the flight will be relying on little connections, it would probably be a 343 is launched. I'm pretty sure they would be able to go non-stop in both directions if routed via Cape Town, but the higher yielding traffic is coming from Jo'Burg. Maybe JNB-CPT-MIA-JNB-CPT?
a.
 
SA7700
Topic Author
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:02 am

I read in one of the past threads that Evergreen (IIRC) is contracted to do SA's ground handling at IAD, is that true? Which airline's lounges is SA utilizing for F-and J-class pax?

Quoting Willyj (Reply 4):
Raggaebird, any chance we might get to see a trip report on that flight? Also, have you flown on their other services from JFK or ATL? I'm planning on talking one of those flights in a few months and just wanted to hear any preferences to the 744/346/343. Thanks.

Sorry to steal your thunder Raggaebird and thanks a million for your feedback... I have had the chance to fly JNB-JFK-JNB (A343) in J-and Y-class a few times now. Product is excellent, although Y-class on (ZS-SXE), during Easter Weekend had not been reconfigured. It was quite strange, as it was the bird's 2nd revenue flight and it was destined for 9W shortly thereafter.

My last flight on an A346 (ZS-SNG) was in August, which was reconfigured in the "new" configuration. Interestingly enough, only the middle sections (rows 45-58) and back sections (rows 62-75) had one row each removed to increase the pitch. The forward section of Y-class (rows 36-44) stayed in the original configuration.

With regards to the B744: The LD Y-class seat pitch is horrendous, while the UD Y-class seats offer a few inches more. Lastly: IMMHO, the flatbeds on the B744's in J-class were just more comfortable than the flatbeds on the A343 and A346.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
TonyBurr
Posts: 1060
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: How Is SA Doing On The JNB-IAD-JNB Route?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:21 am

As mentioend above, the IAD-JNB flight is way too early in the morning!

Who is online