gilesdavies
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DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:51 am

My friends have immigrated to New Zealand to start a new life this week and I have been invited to come over to visit them at some point next year.

I am not in a position to book just yet but messing around with the online travel websites to get an idea for fares traveling in May next year and when I was looking of Expedia - Emirates fares came up several times but was shocked to see that these were all different departure times.

I looked into this further and EK operate three flights a day to Auckland from Dubai with 2x 773 services and one A345 service.

Is there really such a demand for that number of services? If so, why? That's close to offer 800-1000 seats a day in each direction.

If I was to book flying Emirates it would give me the advantage of flying out of BHX as opposed to one of the dreaded London airports. Putting aside everyone's favourite aircraft would the A345 be the better flight to opt for?

I have heard in the press A345's are very impressive or does that only apply to Biz and 1st Class? Can you expect the same - comfort wise on 777 and A340-500 in Y?

[Edited 2005-10-03 00:54:43]
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:56 am

It's cheaper for EK to operate a return flight across the Tasman than leave the aircraft sitting on the ground all day in Australia, clocking up parking fees and not earning any revenue. The open skies agreement between NZ and Dubai allows for such a large market prescence too.
 
mNeo
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
I have heard in the press A345's are very impressive or does that only apply to Biz and 1st Class? Can you expect the same - comfort wise on 777 and A340-500 in Y?

The EK Y is 10 across in 3-4-3 which is not very confy. I belive the A345 is MUCH better in that aspect. I have no idea how the 300ER is configured tho.
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jacobin777
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
I have heard in the press A345's are very impressive or does that only apply to Biz and 1st Class? Can you expect the same - comfort wise on 777 and A340-500 in Y?



Quoting MNeo (Reply 2):

The EK Y is 10 across in 3-4-3 which is not very confy. I belive the A345 is MUCH better in that aspect. I have no idea how the 300ER is configured tho.

incorrect, I've flown on EK's 777's and A345's.............NO comparison...in fact, unless I fly business class or first class on EK (yah, right..as if I can afford it), I will never fly on EK's a 345.........VERY CRAMPED.. Sad
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arkhem
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:37 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):

incorrect, I've flown on EK's 777's and A345's.............NO comparison...in fact, unless I fly business class or first class on EK (yah, right..as if I can afford it), I will never fly on EK's a 345.........VERY CRAMPED..

Why? The EK 345 is 2-4-2 in Y, and the 777 is 3-4-3. Although I don't know the seat pitch in either, the standard A340 Y config. is better than 10 across in the T7.
 
N1120A
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting Arkhem (Reply 4):
Why? The EK 345 is 2-4-2 in Y, and the 777 is 3-4-3. Although I don't know the seat pitch in either, the standard A340 Y config. is better than 10 across in the T7.

EK's 777 Y class seatpitch is a generous 34"

BTW, one of the main reasons (besides keeping the off the ground) that EK flies all the AKL turns is that they have full 5th freedoms on the Australia-AKL sectors
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aerorobnz
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:01 am

The demand is not for passengers it is for the cargo space underneath them.
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cedarjet
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:02 am

I wonder what the loads are like on Australia-NZ. Are they still flying 40 people on a 777-300, or are they actually getting the locals onboard and flying full across the Tasman. Anyone know?
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rushed
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:44 am

i would have to disagree on the negative comments regarding the a345. the inflight service is excellent and the 2-4-2 seating means you feel like you have much more room. Seat pitch is fine, entertainment awesome.. all in all a great flight. Also the a345 does the dubai-syd leg non stop.
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jacobin777
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Arkhem (Reply 4):
Why? The EK 345 is 2-4-2 in Y, and the 777 is 3-4-3. Although I don't know the seat pitch in either, the standard A340 Y config. is better than 10 across in the T7.

true, don't know why, but the A345 has a very "cramped" feeling to it.
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zeke
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:48 am

http://www.smarttravelasia.com/businessclass.htm has the EK J class seats as

773 - 47"
332 - 48"
345 - 60"

http://www.uk-air.net/seatpitch.htm has the Y class pitch at 32".
Seems depending on where you sit in a 773 you may get up to 34" pitch, however 32" is what is quoted.

Seems to me they increased the J pitch at the expense of the Y in the airbus, and the other way around for the 777.
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planemanofnz
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:12 am

Does anyone know if Emirates has any plans to expand at AKL like maybe extending one of the Perth flights to AKL 2 or 3 times a week?
 
aerokiwi
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:34 pm

That Perth flight rumour has been lingering for a while now. Would be a good idea, but I think EK realise they have to let the market absorb the current capacity they've dumped on the Tasman. Though NZ makes a tidy sum from Perth, IIRC.

The 777 economy section is not particularly wonderful - I noticed the 3-4-3 seating a lot and found it very annoying, even on a 3 and a half hour flight from Melbourne. I'd go for the A345 as much as possible. From my experience the J class seats are MUCH better. With the 773 routes, the J seat standard depends on whether you get a 773ER or just basic 773. I'm not sure which flies on which route anymore.

Thing is the A345s are used on the DXB-SYD/MEL flights, which are generally more expensive than the flights routed through Asia (going for the more premium market), so if price is an issue, then that's something to consider.

As is the 3 stops you'll have to make, as opposed to 2 en route. May seem like nothing much, but I've found it to be hugely tiring and annoying.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7):
Are they still flying 40 people on a 777-300,

Depends on the day of the week. When I flew to MEL on the 773/772 they were fairly full! That was in March.

As for 10 across on the 777's, to be honest I didn't think it was cramped at all. Though that is the only 777 I have taken.

As for PER-AKL, they would probably do it daily, being that it is EK we are talking about.

As for having 3 daily flights to AKL, they would have more if they had aircraft, but I think they are being patient. They have plans for non-stop DXB-AKL that is a real A345 route. Possibly a DXB-Asia-AKL service aswell.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:29 pm

Wasnt there talks of EK wanting AKL-LAX as well? Remember that AKL will get the EK A380s as well.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 14):
Wasnt there talks of EK wanting AKL-LAX as well?

Sure was! Was even talk of AKL-JFK. And yes we will get the A380's!
 
planemanofnz
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:05 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 13):

So when are the likely to operate a DXB-asia-AKL route? or DXB-AKL, (I know when they get more aircraft but when is that likely to be?) and maybe if they cancelled out one of their current poor performing trans tasman routes they could replace it with DXB-PER-AKL, even cancelling out DXB-MEL-AKL because I don't know if people like to travel in an airbus A340 for 14 hours+ in one go after also travelling for 3 hours from AKL to australia. If they did DXB-PER-AKL then the longest route would be DXB-PER and thats only about 10:30 but would there be sufficient cargo demand for this route?
 
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
have full 5th freedoms on the Australia-AKL sectors

To every New Zealand international airport.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 12):
the J seat standard depends on whether you get a 773ER or just basic 773. I'm not sure which flies on which route anymore.

I'm booked on a B773ER on AKL-SYD in 2 weeks. A B772ER operates on a saturday, with B773ER on the other days

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 15):

The A380s will come from the Australian ports, mostly SYD. Has there been anymore talk about AKL-LAX and AKL-DXB? There was rumor a while ago about EK setting up a MX base and making AKL their South Pacific Hub, whats happened to that rumor?
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planemanofnz
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
There was rumor a while ago about EK setting up a MX base and making AKL their South Pacific Hub, whats happened to that rumor?

In the december 2004 issue of *Australian aviation* president of Emirates Tim Clark said in an interview on page 46, "those stories put out by Air New Zealand earlier in the year regarding us planning a massive Auckland hub were something that took us by surprise and it was the first we had heard of it." Obviously they aren't planning on doing anything with AKL *yet*
 
ekgold
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 16):
So when are the likely to operate a DXB-asia-AKL route? or DXB-AKL, (I know when they get more aircraft but when is that likely to be?) and maybe if they cancelled out one of their current poor performing trans tasman routes they could replace it with DXB-PER-AKL, even cancelling out DXB-MEL-AKL because I don't know if people like to travel in an airbus A340 for 14 hours+ in one go after also travelling for 3 hours from AKL to australia. If they did DXB-PER-AKL then the longest route would be DXB-PER and thats only about 10:30 but would there be sufficient cargo demand for this route

EK dont really give a toss about pax numbers.. Cargo is the key decision maker.. ask any EK pilot and all longhaul destinations are cargo planes with passengers, not the other way around....
 
eE-Kay
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RE: DXB-AKL (EK) - Why The Demand For 3x Daily Service

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:16 pm

According to their staff, it is true: there planes ARE freighters. Have a first-hand look at it yourself:

ek planes are cattle haulers