keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:40 am

The current A380-800 being the first A380 model, will be the series backbone for years to come. Much of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth. The current prototype will be used for some of the higher weight A380F certification tests.

Like most larger aircraft, new versions of the basic A380 will be developed to match changing market demand for the next 40 years. Airbus predicts a new A380 version every 2-3 years for the coming years.

Most likely versions (after the A380F):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.
- A380-900: from ~2014 with more then 650 passengers.

The 800R would be the A380s entrance into the ULR market. With typical ULR cabin comfort specs it would e.g cover North America from Australia & Asia with nearly double the seating capacity of current ULR aircraft types. Likely the specs will be adjusted as the market situation / customer demand changes.

Other versions specified during the development of the A380:
- A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers
- A380-800C7 passenger/cargo model with space for 7 cargo pallets
- A380-800C11 passenger/cargo model with space for 11 cargo pallets
- A380-800S reduced range version of the A380-800
- A380-900S reduced range version of the A380-900

The -900S could offer lower seat mile costs on north Atlantic & intra Asia routes then anything else. Might get feasible if oil prices further rise.

People on this site say a combi is unlikely to be certified, however I have read nothing official on this. Authorities most of the times have rational demands, not being against something principally. Any links on this?

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005598.jpg
Picture from : http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos Brian A MacDonald

sources:
http://www.aviationindustrygroup.com...s/a380flighttestinggat-947-953.pdf
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/a380/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:06 am

Sorry, Keesje, can't resist asking a couple of questions.  Smile

1. Strictly, shouldn't this thread be headed "New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 'late 2006'-2015"?

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers

2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Wiggidy
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:06 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV

Imagine you have a fleet of 20-30 A389/388's and want an aircraft with less seats for longer routes or routes with less demand. Thats a perfectly reasonable example as to how that aircraft will compete. It's not all about weight you know, much more economics involved than that.
-Wes
 
Cruiser
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:08 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:35 am

That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?

Easily, by offering 9000nm range.

N
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.

I´d say more than 10.000 nm in order to be able to fly LHR-SYD.
Remember the current version has 8000 nm and the growth potential is enormous, a shortened A380-700 would be much less economical.

Also possible versions : -800RF, -900R, -900F, -900RF(!).
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11866
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
uch of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth. The current prototype will be used for some of the higher weight A380F certification tests.

So true. I've posted quite a few times that I think the A380 won't get sales "legs" until the A389 is available.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.
- A380-900: from ~2014 with more then 650 passengers.

Very attractive to current A388 and A345 customers.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):

The -900S could offer lower seat mile costs on north Atlantic & intra Asia routes then anything else. Might get feasible if oil prices further rise.

Yes, but pulling out fuel tanks isn't too exciting. Also, short range versions have historically had poor resale value.

Quoting A342 (Reply 5):
a shortened A380-700 would be much less economical.

The new 747sp!  duck  The A387 will join the 771, 761, etc. as part of the list of notable shrinks that didn't happen. Customers will demand an A388 with more range and "abuse" it rather than purchase a new sub-type. (abuse=run with very few seats and many fuel pallets in the cargo hold).

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):

People on this site say a combi is unlikely to be certified, however I have read nothing official on this. Authorities most of the times have rational demands, not being against something principally. Any links on this?

The FAA has serious concerns on *single deck* combi's. Basically, they've stated that a *new* single deck combi isn't going to happen. Of course, that leaves the market *totally open* to the A380. I could see KLM filling the top deck with Pax and the lower deck and most of the hold with cargo!  bigthumbsup  Or... vice versa (but would you want to be the people filler in the cargo sandwich? Not me).

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:22 am

It looks like RR Trent 900s on the Ocean Air picture. Is it true that they've gone for RR and not GP?  Wink
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9939
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
1. Strictly, shouldn't this thread be headed "New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 'late 2006'-2015"?

Not sure about that, end of next year major assemblies of the first 40 aircraft, and 20 odd should be assembled. My understanding is certification has been delayed, they are happily putting them together whilst the test program is happening.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?

Heard that the 747 cannot go heavier due to gear design limits, do you know what the upper weight they could extend the airframe to ?
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
EddieGunsmoke
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!



Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 9):
Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?

Yes, it does look better. I'm not sure if it's the paint job, or if someone took the A380 in that photo in for rhinoplasty. In fact, it looks almost as good as the MD-12 (in my opinion the best-looking double-decker design I've seen.)
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:50 am

Given what FedEX had to say this week, wouldn't the A389F be a high priority?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11866
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
Given what FedEX had to say this week, wouldn't the A389F be a high priority?

Getting the A389 going is a priority. I agree with FedEx's comments that eventually most of the A388's (pax, 1st gen, not ULR) will become A388SF's. Unfortunately, FedEx alone wouldn't order enough A389's to justify the engineering today. I expect by 2008 Airbus will be in full swing on the A389 development.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9318
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 3):
That is the first picture of the A380 that I absolutely love. It looks great!

And then it isn't even a real photo  Yeah sure
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:57 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Much of the A380s structural parts are dimensioned for growth



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 6):
So true. I've posted quite a few times that I think the A380 won't get sales "legs" until the A389 is available.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 4):
Easily, by offering 9000nm range.

I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388 - what do others think?
A
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388 - what do others think?
A

Of course they can, and they´ll do.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
BlueSky1976
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:33 am

I dunno...
While I could see a pretty big potential for the -800R, I still doubt that -900 will be launched. I don't think there will be a demand for a plane with more than 600 seats in the next 25 years... So, once again - We'll probably see at the most around 400 - 500 A380-800s (both "standard" and "R" variants) in it's entire product lifespan (25+ years).
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 16):
While I could see a pretty big potential for the -800R, I still doubt that -900 will be launched.

You're joking? SIA would buy it tomorrow and so would others. FedEx have said within the past week that they want the -900F more than the 800F. Leahy said a few years ago that Airbus missed an opportunity by launching the A330-300 before the -200. I wonder if they should have had the balls to go straight to the A380-900?
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 9):
Is it just me, or does the nose look much better on that one?

Yeah, it does look better.  Smile
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 14):
I really think that the A380 versions that make full use of the frame's potential can offer customers much more than the current A388

IMO, only an aircraft the size of the A389 completely fulfills the business case advanced for the VLA. Two of the key customers, EK & FE, claim they really prefer the A389 over the A388.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
bomber996
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:03 am

If they're gona have problems turning the A388, imagine the daunting task of taxiing an A389 in a crowded airport.  devil  I would love to see this happen though. I think the A389 would be much more aesthetically pleasing then the A388. The A388 just looks too small.

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 20):
The A388 just looks too small.

Yeah, it's really tiny...  sarcastic 
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 18):
Yeah, it does look better.

Because the nose is obscured by the paint scheme, the only way this plane looks good.

I am not looking forward to seeing the 388 in AF and QF scheme. Eek.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
I am not looking forward to seeing the 388 in AF and QF scheme. Eek.

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing it - and flying on it - in any colour scheme!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 8):

Heard that the 747 cannot go heavier due to gear design limits, do you know what the upper weight they could extend the airframe to ?

There are rumors about adding a center gear strut.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bomber996
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 20):
The A388 just looks too small.

Yeah, it's really tiny...

Ok.... too short, then, for the wings.

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 25):
Peace

Fair enough. I haven't seen it in the flesh so it may look "wrong" but I don't dislike what I see in pics. But I agree, the -900 should be more aesthetically pleasing. Truce?!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 19):
Two of the key customers, EK & FE, claim they really prefer the A389 over the A388.

True for EK, they said they want a larger one.

Who is FE?
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Who is FE?

FedEx.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:07 am

Well, it really just looks like a supersized A318. It looks awful for the same reason the A318 does.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 29):
It looks awful for the same reason the A318 does.

And that is...?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.

It remains to be seen whether the A388 will meet its projected range

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers

2. How could that version possibly compete with the lighter 747ADV?

It can't, unless it can actually offer 9000nm range. Still, Boeing has projected a lower seat-mile for the 747ADV than for the larger A388, so I really don't see how anyone would want the A387

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Who is FE?

FedEx.

Actually, their code is FX
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 29):
It looks awful for the same reason the A318 does.

Hmmm? I think the A318 looks great - especially with Frontier's critters on those huge tails.

Then again, a lot of people used to think Picasso's paintings looked awful.

But Picasso won.  Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Who is FE?

FedEx.

Actually, their code is FX

OK, thanks. Did they say they want something larger than the A388? I only heard that from EK.

Airbus has always shortened and stretched their fuselages, they will do it with the A380, too. A shorter one to fill the gap between the A388 and the A346 is needed and a longer one for growth.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 33):
OK, thanks. Did they say they want something larger than the A388? I only heard that from EK.

Read this week's FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:16 am

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...380F+fleet+expansion+strategy.html

That will get you up to speed on FedEx's stance.

VS would also like the A389, Branson said he'd be the first to order.

Airbus never shortened the A340. The A340-200 was the baseline.

N
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting PM (Reply 34):
Read this week's FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL.

Maybe I'll try it. How much does it cost?

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 35):
Airbus never shortened the A340. The A340-200 was the baseline.

The A310 (43.9m long) and the A340-600 (75.6m long) have the same fuselage diameter.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 36):
Maybe I'll try it. How much does it cost?

Read it online. See Neil's link above.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 36):
The A310 (43.9m long) and the A340-600 (75.6m long) have the same fuselage diameter.

The A300, A310, A340, A330 all have the same fuselage diameter. But they arrived in the order above: 300, 310, 340, 330 with many years between the 310 and 340...

(And the 350 will also have the same diameter.)
 
bomber996
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting PM (Reply 37):
The A300, A310, A340, A330 all have the same fuselage diameter. But they arrived in the order above: 300, 310, 340, 330 with many years between the 310 and 340...

(And the 350 will also have the same diameter.)

Dont they all have the same fuselage?

Quoting PM (Reply 26):
Truce?!

 checkmark 


Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting PM (Reply 37):
The A300, A310, A340, A330 all have the same fuselage diameter. But they arrived in the order above: 300, 310, 340, 330 with many years between the 310 and 340...

I know. What I'm saying is that Airbus stretches and shortenes fuselages with the same diameter a lot. Therefore we can expect them to do that with the A380 as well.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
trex8
Posts: 4619
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:38 am

so why not a combi with A343 passenger capability on the upper deck and cargo on the lower deck??? I could see some far east carriers drooling over that!
 
bomber996
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 40):
so why not a combi with A343 passenger capability on the upper deck and cargo on the lower deck??? I could see some far east carriers drooling over that!

If you know that an A340-300 isn't double decker, then hopefully you'd know that much of the revinue generated by flights come from the cargo they lift that is already below the passengers in the cargo holds. If you didn't think the A343 is double decker then I would like to know what you were talking about if you dont mind.  Confused

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:40 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 41):
Quoting Trex8 (Reply 40):
so why not a combi with A343 passenger capability on the upper deck and cargo on the lower deck??? I could see some far east carriers drooling over that!

If you know that an A340-300 isn't double decker, then hopefully you'd know that much of the revinue generated by flights come from the cargo they lift that is already below the passengers in the cargo holds. If you didn't think the A343 is double decker then I would like to know what you were talking about if you dont mind. Confused

Just reread it. If you do it often enough you might come to the conclusion that he was talking about an A380 with a passenger main deck and a cargo main deck. Obviously the passenger deck would on the upper deck which, surprise, surprise, has a passenger capacity comparable to the A340... in short, he's talking about 3 decks here - 2 cargo, 1 passenger. So, what's so hard to understand?

ciao
Daniel
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 30):
And that is...?



Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Hmmm? I think the A318 looks great - especially with Frontier's critters on those huge tails.

Then again, a lot of people used to think Picasso's paintings looked awful.

They both have that shortbus look and quality to them. The A380-900 will go a long way to rectifying this, just like the A319 looks a lot better than the A318. But a nosejob would help, too! Of course, this is just all aesthetics and I realize they have no bearing upon the marketability of the aircraft.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 43):
The A380-900 will go a long way to rectifying this, just like the A319 looks a lot better than the A318.

I don't think anything needs to be rectified. I think both the A318 and the A380 look excellent.

Then again, i was around for the launch of the B747, and I thought that looked excellent too, but many thought it weird.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
astuteman
Posts: 6346
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:49 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 43):
But a nosejob would help, too! Of course, this is just all aesthetics and I realize they have no bearing upon the marketability of the aircraft.

Unfortunately, the long forehead is essential in order to stop the airflow over the nose accelerating to supersonic in high speed flight (apparrently..).

Still, FWIW, I think IN YEARS TO COME, rank-and-file public at airports are going to see lots of medium sized twins, all excellent aircraft (787, A350, 777 etc, etc) which we all love, and say...OK, it's a plane.

Just as people do now when they see a 747 climbing out of Heathrow, from their vantage points on the M25 car park, though , I think people will see the A380 climbing out and go "WOW, that's amazing", and not give the slightest attention to any "perceived" ugliness at the nose.

Just a point of view.....
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:26 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
A380-700 extended range shortened fuselage for 481 passengers



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 6):
The new 747sp! The A387 will join the 771, 761, etc. as part of the list of notable shrinks that didn't happen.

I really don't believe in a "shrink" version of the A388.
If an Airline needs a 480 seater why would it buy a double-decker A387 with all the problems it creates for bording/deplanning etc... when A34X or B777 are avialable and can do the same job better ?
It could be possible for an airline operating an all A380 fleet, but all the A380 operators are already operating A345/6, B744 or B773.
 
trex8
Posts: 4619
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-20

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 41):
If you know that an A340-300 isn't double decker, then hopefully you'd know that much of the revinue generated by flights come from the cargo they lift that is already below the passengers in the cargo holds. If you didn't think the A343 is double decker then I would like to know what you were talking about if you dont mind.

maybe I didn't express myself well, so I'll let someone who can, do it!! sorry but I'm the product of a public education system in a not so rich rural midwest state! Geez, even the Brits didn't give me this much trouble when I was over there!

Quoting Dazeflight (Reply 42):
Just reread it. If you do it often enough you might come to the conclusion that he was talking about an A380 with a passenger main deck and a cargo main deck. Obviously the passenger deck would on the upper deck which, surprise, surprise, has a passenger capacity comparable to the A340... in short, he's talking about 3 decks here - 2 cargo, 1 passenger. So, what's so hard to understand?
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting PM (Reply 37):

The A300, A310, A340, A330 all have the same fuselage diameter. But they arrived in the order above: 300, 310, 340, 330 with many years between the 310 and 340...

Interestingly, the 4 engine plane (current 340) was supposed to be called 330 and the 2 engine plane (current 330) was supposed to be called 340. This because of the order of first flight/entry into service. But someone at Airbus came to their senses and decided that this would be too confusing.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 46):
If an Airline needs a 480 seater why would it buy a double-decker A387 with all the problems it creates for bording/deplanning etc... when A34X or B777 are avialable and can do the same job better ?

Wrong. Well into next decade when a lot of (mainly European and Asian) airports have prepared for the 380 with dual airbridges at gates, then boarding/deboarding a 387 will be a lot more efficient than a 34x or 777. It will be no less smooth than a 762. It will simply be like two 762s on top of each other. That's one thing even the 747adv can't copy.

And one more thing: Even if the 387 will carry a lot less payload for increased range, then it may not end up with equally reduced floor space. That way it may introduce a new level of comfort at affordable prices. We will see.

If the 387 gets tailored only to copy 747adv specs, then it will most likely have no meaning. But is has the potential to make a difference.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs