thepilot
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:34 am

Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:00 am

Hey.
I was just wondering if anyone knew what the longest commercial non-stop flight is a the moment. I know there is SIN-EWR, and YYZ-DEL, but is that the record? What about in the past?
Thanks.
From YVR
 
airconti
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:21 am

Well, I think YYZ-DEL with 14:10 or DXB-JFK can hardly be matched by the 18:25 of SIN-NYC of SQ A345 or 17:10 NYC-BKK of TG A345. From my humble point of view, I think, it is hard to match the performance of todays or future A345 or B777LR'es with any past airliners, cheers, A.
BTW - Figures of planned flight times come from one of the common CRS's....
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:24 am

The longest commercial flight is SIN-EWR
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
EK156
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 8:01 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
The longest commercial flight is SIN-EWR

Amen!!! But this is soon to be challenged by DXB-LAX
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:47 pm

Your criterion is distance, not time? If so, nobody's ever beat EWR-SIN.
 
A360
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:41 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 3):
Amen!!! But this is soon to be challenged by DXB-LAX

No it won't mate!
Even if EK starts flying that route using the 340-500, it's much shorter than the EWR-SIN run... it's even shorter than the SIN-LAX and BKK-JFK routes.  Wink

SIN-EWR: 15345 km / 9535 mi / 8285 nm
SIN-LAX: 14114 km / 8770 mi / 7621 nm
BKK-JFK: 13937 km / 8660 mi / 7525 nm

DXB-LAX:13420 km / 8339 mi / 7246 nm
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:40 am

.. on the other hand - if you are talking about flight duration rather than distance I don't think you can beat the PER-CMB flights operated by QF during WWII

During the War, Catalinas were also flown by QANTAS crews in the truly remarkable nonstop flights that crossed the Indian Ocean from Perth to Ceylon, a distance of 5,670 kilometers. Flights lasted almost 30 hours, and in recognition of the marathon flight, passengers were often handed certificates dubbed "secret order of the double sunrise."

not 100% sure these would qualify as commercial as most , but not all , of the pax were on military duty .


Imagine a 30 hour flight without AVOD !  banghead 
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2450
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:42 am

Will JFK-PER be possible in a few years?

[Edited 2005-10-06 17:46:26]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 7):
Isn't LHR-SYD the longest?

no-one currently operates that non-stop ( although QF did a non-revenue publicity stunt with the delivery of their first 744 ) - but if Boeing come up with a 777 which will do this economically and if QF decide to buy it then , yes , it would easily beat EWR-SIN

( at least until either A or B come up with a plane which will do AKL-LHR nonstop  Wink )

[Edited 2005-10-06 17:48:36]
 
EK156
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 8:01 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting A360 (Reply 5):
No it won't mate!
Even if EK starts flying that route using the 340-500, it's much shorter than the EWR-SIN run... it's even shorter than the SIN-LAX and BKK-JFK routes.

SIN-EWR: 15345 km / 9535 mi / 8285 nm
SIN-LAX: 14114 km / 8770 mi / 7621 nm
BKK-JFK: 13937 km / 8660 mi / 7525 nm

DXB-LAX:13420 km / 8339 mi / 7246 nm

Oppsss...you win!! Thanks for the info. Waow... SIN-EWR is quite long!!!
 
LUV4JFK
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:46 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 7):
Will JFK-PER be possible in a few years?

Afraid not. The only possibility from New York to Australia is Brisbane and Sydney, with weight restrictions, at least according to Boeing's 777-200LR range.

LUV4JFK
 yes 
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:13 am



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
.. on the other hand - if you are talking about flight duration rather than distance I don't think you can beat the PER-CMB flights operated by QF during WWII

During the War, Catalinas were also flown by QANTAS crews in the truly remarkable nonstop flights that crossed the Indian Ocean from Perth to Ceylon, a distance of 5,670 kilometers. Flights lasted almost 30 hours, and in recognition of the marathon flight, passengers were often handed certificates dubbed "secret order of the double sunrise."

not 100% sure these would qualify as commercial as most , but not all , of the pax were on military duty .



From: Australia American Catalina Memorial Foundation

Quote:
Depending on the weather and the load carried the flights lasted for 27 to 32 hours non stop. The Cats still hold the record for the longest (in hours) regular flight in aviation history. The Catalinas motto of "First and Furthest" cannot be argued with.

I would consider them commercial considering:


Quote:
The five Catalinas used in these flights were flown by BOAC pilots from England to Ceylon where RAF pilots took over for the last leg to Perth. They then flew Qantas crews back to Ceylon to begin the shuttle service which operated for two years from 1943.

Delete this User
 
Trolley Dolley
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 1:57 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:34 am

Throughout the Catalina operation (except for the above listed delivery service) the crews were Qantas. To save weight they used to photograph the mail and transfer it film, for later printing out. The passenegers were given a Qantas certificate that said "The secret order of the double sunrise" as the flights used to take off in the cool, still morning pre-dawn air from Perth's Swan River. Thus they'd see two sunrises while airbourne.

True the majority of pax may have military, but that would have been the case worldwide during the war.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:47 am

I think that we will see LHR-SYD both ways some day. Maybe not yet, but I think that successors of the 777LR or A340-500 that use composite technology and even more advanced engines will be able to do that job with reasonable payload one day, if, and here is the big question, such an airplane will ever be developed which is not that likely given that the market might be too small... So in 30years we might see LHR-SYD non-stop...
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:00 am

These mega-flights from the past never cease to amaze me - when the most modern jets are struggling to achieve 18h-duration flights in commercial service, WWII-era piston aircraft used to fly with passengers for getting on for twice the time. Goes to show the difference in fuel consumption per unit time, doesn't it?  Wink

Rich
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
So in 30years we might see LHR-SYD non-stop..

...Or maybe an awful lot sooner, if Boeing's plans this week for a 772UXSLR come to fruition!
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:39 am

I can't check any of this now, but the longest-distance-scheduled-airline flight record might go about like this:

1969? Aerolineas Argentinas starts showing a nonstop both ways EZE-MAD. If it really existed it was likely the record up until then.

About 1976: Pan Am took over with the 747SP. If JFK-TYO started first it was the record, but was soon replaced by SFO and/or LAX to SYD. That was the record until

Maybe 1992? when SAA started JFK-JNB eastward only, which was the record until they started ATL-JNB.

Nobody beat that until SIN-LAX started--was it February? Then later the same year SIN-EWR.
 
TP727
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 12:21 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:43 am

Boeing says the 772LR can carry 301 in a 3 class configuration, as far as 9,200nm. I doubt that any airline would put that many people in flight that long, one of the reasons is that those are prime routes, with high yield pax, and those guys demand some level of comfort.
Let us say that with a 220 pax configuration, what would be the cargo available on a flight as long as SIN-EWR? Or how farther could the plane go with 80 less pax? Also, what configuration will SQ use on their 772LR (am not sure if they ordered it, i am assuming they did)?
I have heard that there´s a proposed 772ULR, but no figures on the range were given. Is that just a story or there´s any true on that?
At 10000nm very few destinations would be out of reach for that plane, but i doubt the market size for such acft is relevant to compensate expensive developments.
Hope i did not bore any of you guys.
TP727
 
boysteve
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 14):
Goes to show the difference in fuel consumption per unit time, doesn't it?

Yes it does. however speed and weight are the two greatest factors
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 16):
About 1976: Pan Am took over with the 747SP. If JFK-TYO started first it was the record, but was soon replaced by SFO and/or LAX to SYD. That was the record until

Maybe 1992? when SAA started JFK-JNB eastward only, which was the record until they started ATL-JNB.

Nobody beat that until SIN-LAX started--was it February? Then later the same year SIN-EWR.

Actually, prior to SIN-LAX, the longest commercial flight was EWR-HKG

Quoting TP727 (Reply 17):
Boeing says the 772LR can carry 301 in a 3 class configuration, as far as 9,200nm. I doubt that any airline would put that many people in flight that long, one of the reasons is that those are prime routes, with high yield pax, and those guys demand some level of comfort.

Actually, the new range is 9420nm
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Web
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:17 am

Are there weight restrictions on the SIN-EWR flight?

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 15):
...Or maybe an awful lot sooner, if Boeing's plans this week for a 772UXSLR come to fruition!

Nice one! That gave me a good laugh.
 
TP727
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 12:21 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Actually, the new range is 9420nm

Thanks for correcting me, did appreciate the caring. Any other information or comments?

TP727
 
A360
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:41 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:11 am

I'm still waiting for an aircraft that can do LIS-AKL nonstop both ways, with a full cabin! Big grin
 
AGANX
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:09 am

SIN-EWR 15345 km (8285 nm) longest non stop commercial flight at present

Some other viable commercial flights, we may see in the near future
LHR-SYD 17016 km (9188 nm)
LHR-AKL 18354 km (9910 nm)
TYO-GIG 18547 km (10014 nm)

Longest possible routes, can think of
but may not have sufficient loads for some time

MAD-AKL 19594 km (10580 nm)
LIS-AKL 19622 km (10595 nm)

Source for distances : http://gc.kls2.com/
 
goldfinger
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:54 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:35 pm

There is no payload restriction on the SIN-EWR flights, only because there are only 181 seats aboard the A345. More than half the available capacity is used for business class pax.

Typical payloads are between 20 and 25 tons, which amply caters for pax and their baggage. One does not want to carry any cargo due to the costly nature of ultra long range flights. If you wanted to take on more fuel the penalty for uplifting 1000kg is 600kg, in other words one has to burn 600kg to provide for the 400kg that would be available at destination.

Hence profit margins are much lower for these flights.

The longest flight was 19hrs 25mins from EWR-SIN. We typically circumnavigate the globe on a 6 day operating pattern, operating eastbound from SIN and going east from EWR to SIN.
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
think that we will see LHR-SYD both ways some day. Maybe not yet, but I think that successors of the 777LR or A340-500 that use composite technology and even more advanced engines will be able to do that job with reasonable payload one day, if, and here is the big question, such an airplane will ever be developed which is not that likely given that the market might be too small... So in 30years we might see LHR-SYD non-stop...

From everything I've read, the 777LR with auxirially fuel tanks (some have named it the 777ULR....U for 'ultra') will easily do LHR-SYD. Boeing is thinking about certifying it together with the 777LR and QF is also in discussions about it with Boeing so maybe we're talking a year away or so. Keep in mind this is pretty much a 777LR on steroids (aux fuel tanks and lighter interior). If QF purchases the aircraft to do LHR-SYD, most of the other airlines operating the kangaroo route will jump on board. I understand LHR-SYD with one stop will probably never die but think about all the people who'd rather fly for 20 hours non-stop as compared to a stop over somewhere in Asia. I know I'd personally prefer the non stop so YES there's a market for it mainly because QF has been bugging Boeing (and Airbus) about it for a while.

Regards,

Michael
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:07 pm

The longest possible flight (but not economically viable) would be SIN-UIO.

SIN-UIO&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=" target=_blank>http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=S...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

12255 mi, both points very close to the equator and nearly opposite each other on the globe if you were to put a straight line through the center of the core.
Up, up and away!
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
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RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:32 pm

Auckland-Seville (10,766nm/12,389mi) is often given as the longest possible flight between two large cities. I never noticed that Vancouver, BC lies directly under the great circle route for this flight. At these distances, though, one route is as good as any other, so prevailing winds will dictate.


--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting Web (Reply 20):
Are there weight restrictions on the SIN-EWR flight?



Quoting Goldfinger (Reply 24):
There is no payload restriction on the SIN-EWR flights, only because there are only 181 seats aboard the A345. More than half the available capacity is used for business class pax.

What are you talking about? The very fact that there are only 181 seats and no F (specifically because the seats are too heavy) means the flight is payload restricted. Also, the lack of cargo uplift means there are even greater payload restrictions. The aircraft certainly can't uplift anywhere near its max capacity
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
airlinelover
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RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:50 pm

this thread has been done over and over.. TONS of times..

USE THE SEARCH FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
baw716
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RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:30 pm

On the 777ULR, there would still have to be some payload reduction to get the range up over 10000nm to make LHR-SYD in both directions nonstop year round. I would guess that the aircraft would have to come down to about 200 pax to lighten the load enough to make the nonstop. There would also have to be some modifications, especially in the Economy cabin, because the flight would be well over 20 hours westbound, and the standard Economy class seating will not provide the comfort level required to prevent the circulation problems that occur at altitude for that length of time. Singapore has solved that problem with their Executive Economy, with leg supports, 38 inches of pitch and a 20" wide seat. This permits sufficient recline and sufficient room to move without significant pooling of blood in the extremies. This particular issue will be one that will be a large consideration in all classes, but a greater one in Economy and the reduction in seating to lighten the aircraft to make the distance will give the operating carriers the ability to solve the DVT problem as well.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
goldfinger
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:54 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):

It's a case of simple Math. If you decide to cram 300 pax into a 345 all Y class, you cannot charge a premium. Currently average internet fares SIN-LAX vv are in the order of $1000. Thus total revenue is $300000

With the config that SQ has and if the load is full, checking the SQ web it quotes $4600 for business and $2000 for Y class, incidentally the Y class are executive economy with a fair sized lounge at the rear and lots more leg room and reclination than most other economy class seats. Approx revenue in excess of $500000. So my friend you have to decide what you want, to have very flimsy seats and offer a sardine tin service to carry more payload or think smart and offer an exclusive service that makes more money.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:19 pm

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 29):
this thread has been done over and over.. TONS of times..

USE THE SEARCH FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!

Chris

Hi Chris

as has been stated to a number of other people throwing tantrums over what they see as unnecessary threads - if you aren't interested don't bother to read it . While I am not religious/superstitious I imagine that your language above could be extremely offensive to others ( as I might add is the use not only of caps but an extremely large font - the equivalent of shouting at people )

I might also add that often new members take a while to find their way around including the use of the search option - I notice that the OP only joined Anet last month - gee thanks for making him feel so welcome !

regards

Andrew
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 30):
On the 777ULR, there would still have to be some payload reduction to get the range up over 10000nm to make LHR-SYD in both directions nonstop year round. I would guess that the aircraft would have to come down to about 200 pax to lighten the load enough to make the nonstop

Widebodyphotog did some very good analysis on another thread...from what I was able to deduce (not his deductions), I would think QF (amongst others) would be able to fly 220-230 pax SYD-LHR-SYD nonstop, yearlong basis..

though freight would be basically limited, the amount of pax flown would be good enough to warrant the flight economiclly.

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 30):
There would also have to be some modifications, especially in the Economy cabin, because the flight would be well over 20 hours westbound, and the standard Economy class seating will not provide the comfort level required to prevent the circulation problems that occur at altitude for that length of time.

I think Boeing will take some 787 interior technology.........will be interesting to see if all this comes true!
"Up the Irons!"
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:12 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Actually, prior to SIN-LAX, the longest commercial flight was EWR-HKG

Yes, EWR-HKG likely was the longest flight at the time. What I meant to say was: when SIN-LAX started, ATL-HKG was the longest-distance flight that had ever been scheduled, up to that time.
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:41 am

VARIG would be a great A345 operator: the routes that could be served are MAO/NRT, REC/PEK and POA/AKL.
That is what I posted at the thread “A345/A346 – Operators and Routes?”
What do the folks think about VARIG offering some of the longest non-stop commercial flights?
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 13):
I think that we will see LHR-SYD both ways some day. Maybe not yet, but I think that successors of the 777LR or A340-500 that use composite technology and even more advanced engines will be able to do that job with reasonable payload one day, if, and here is the big question, such an airplane will ever be developed which is not that likely given that the market might be too small... So in 30years we might see LHR-SYD non-stop...

30 years? Where have you been? From what I've read, Boeing is currently modifying the 777LR to meet Qantas' requirements for this nonstop route.
Keepin' it real.
 
USairways16BWI
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:07 am

At one time, wasnt the longest flight served by DL? It was ATL-Japan(cant remember what airport exactly, but i think it was NRT) using the MD-11.
 
USairways16BWI
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:08 am

At one time, wasnt the longest flight served by DL? It was ATL-Japan(cant remember what airport exactly, but i think it was NRT) using the MD-11.
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
What are you talking about? The very fact that there are only 181 seats and no F (specifically because the seats are too heavy) means the flight is payload restricted. Also, the lack of cargo uplift means there are even greater payload restrictions. The aircraft certainly can't uplift anywhere near its max capacity

Which will change with the new 380ton MTOW version.

Quoting TP727 (Reply 17):
Also, what configuration will SQ use on their 772LR (am not sure if they ordered it, i am assuming they did)?

No, just the 773ER.

Quoting AGANX (Reply 23):
Longest possible routes, can think of
but may not have sufficient loads for some time

Nothing can beat SYX-ARI, 20004 kms !

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=s...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Longest Non-stop Commercial Flight

Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 38):
At one time, wasnt the longest flight served by DL? It was ATL-Japan

No, ATL-Japan wasn't long enough.

Quoting A342 (Reply 39):
Nothing can beat SYX-ARI, 20004 kms !

20004 km is the maximum all right, but SYX-ARI is a few less than that. The GC Mapper is good, but not perfect.

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