ktachiya
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When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:09 am

I guess it is a trend with all these airlines cutting routes that can't generate any money.

But when did all these airlines drop North American or European routes out of KIX? I know that BA pulled out of KIX and shifted their operations to NRT (which now sees 2x daily flights) But other than that, I remember NH having flights to North America or Europe from KIX. I also remember that JL used to serve ORD from KIX.

Now, KIX seems much more like an inter-Asian airport. There are only a few flights to international destinations by NW, AC, AA, JL (I can only remember those) but is there any chance of these routes starting up?

Will NH ever shift from an inter-regional Asian airline to a long-haul international carrier in KIX?

Also, is AC's 2x daily 767-300ER service able to make any money for them? It seems that a single daily A340-300 would make much more sense due to the fact that KIX has very expensive landing fees.

Also, with so many pax going to YVR from KIX, could there be any chance of JL operating a leisure with say...... a B767 or B777? I have heard many rumors of travel agencies wanting a new competitor flying the KIX-YVR run

Thank you for any information
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TheSonntag
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:16 am

LH still flies FRA-KIX, KLM flies AMS-KIX, so I would not say its not used anymore... I really liked the airport when I landed there one year ago, friendly personnel and nice terminal...
 
Avianca
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
LH still flies FRA-KIX,

they also served KIX from MUC for some time... I think the flight was good booked, but they upgraded the FRA service to the A340-600 and concentrated the KIX market at FRA.

regards
Avianca
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ikramerica
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:26 am

The 787 and A350 should help KIX in the future.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AMS
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:33 am

I fly to KIX on a regular basis, and see Finnair,KLM,Austrian,Emirates, Uzbekistan airways,Lufthansa,Swiss, Turkish Airlines, Egypt air, Air France

Regards,
AMS
 
AMS
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:36 am

I also forgot to mention AA new service from DFW to KIX
 
Avianca
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
they also served KIX from MUC for some time... I think the flight was good booked, but they upgraded the FRA service to the A340-600 and concentrated the KIX market at FRA.

who knows... maybe LH will add again in some time a MUC-KIX service!?

Quoting Ktachiya (Thread starter):
There are only a few flights to international destinations by NW, AC, AA, JL (I can only remember those)

isnt still AZ operating flights into KIX?

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
AMS
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:49 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 6):
isnt still AZ operating flights into KIX

Yes, AZ is still flying between Milan Malpensa to Osaka KIX, also Aeroflot has still flights operating from Moscow

Regards,
AMS
 
centrair
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:01 am

A report was done a few years back that showed that many Japanese in Western Japan (Osaka, Hiroshima and Fukuoka) chose to fly via ICN over KIX. The frequency to ICN was greater than that of domestic connections to KIX. They could take a 90 min flight to ICN and then connect to the world on KE.

KIX will be lowering their landing fees and some of the ITM flights will be moving over because of this. In a few years, I think ITM will look like NKM and be for regional flights using less than 100 seat planes. KIX has poor domestic connections and needs to increase that so it can be competitive with NGO (great Domestic connections...one building International connection), NRT (Great International choices...poor Domestic connection) and ICN (Great International and Domestic Connection, lower cost and greater choice).

I think that KIX will see an increase the same as NGO with the arrival of the 787 and A350. NRT has slot restriction and that will force airlines to choose the other destinations. They will come to KIX and NGO. KIX of course will get preference over NGO.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
JoFMO
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:41 am

It would be a wise decision to limite ITM to 50 seaters once Kobe is open. This way KIX could become a real attractice airport for whole Japan. KIX and Kobe together have enough capacity to serve the entire region.
 
Carpethead
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:22 pm

Only European carrier that pulled out of NGO are AF & BA. AF used to have A343 direct to CDG. NGO never had lots of long-haul flights because of runway length issues.

The KIX long-haul pull-out began with SAS discontinuing their 763 service to CPH, and that got the ball rolling. Followed by carriers such as BA, SR, SA, Vasp, BI, big reduction by NW/UA, etc. During the NW heyday, it saw 744 to DTW, 742 to MSP, LAX, MNL & HNL, DC10 to SEA, KUL, CGK. UA had LAX, SFO, HNL, GUM, & SEL with 742/744s. TK & SU don't have flights to KIX currently. SU only operated for couple of months in the summer the previous couple of years but this year it didn't return.

NH never had transpac flights outside of NRT. NH did have a few weeklies to FRA & LHR with 742s. JL also had a few weeklies to FRA with MD-11s plus a weekly to DEL with MD-11.

Currently KIX traffic levels are about the same as the peak in 2000 but most of it is composed of increased Asian regional flying with domestic flying still below year 2000-levels. KIX will never see lots of domestic flights because it's just too far away from Osaka & Kobe. If ITM is allowed to expand the number of flights expect KIX domestic flights to go down even further plus the new Kobe Airport is another wild card thrown into the Kansai-region.
 
ktachiya
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting AMS" class=quote target=_blank>AMS (Reply 4):
I fly to KIX on a regular basis, and see Finnair,KLM,Austrian,Emirates, Uzbekistan airways,Lufthansa,Swiss, Turkish Airlines, Egypt air, Air France

Regards,
AMS

thanks for reminding me that. I was only limiting myself to Trans-pac flight.

Thanks carpethead. I never knew SAS or Vasp were serving the KIX market at one time.
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centrair
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:45 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 10):
Only European carrier that pulled out of NGO are AF & BA

KLM operated between Nagoya and Amsterdam via Sapporo until January in 2002.

It was rumored that KLM was considering to inaugurate between NGO and AMS after the opening of Chubu International Airport. They were planning to operate 3 or 4 times a week. But has never developed. I think they feed traffic now to NGO on KLM from NRT and on the JL/AF codeshare from CDG.

In terms of KIX and the Trans-pac market. Once U.S. carriers get their act together, we might see some increased traffic. One thing I have been surprised with is that CO or Micronesia doesn't offer service to/from KIX. Why not? They serve almost everyplace else in Japan.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
tsnamm
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:30 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
In terms of KIX and the Trans-pac market. Once U.S. carriers get their act together, we might see some increased traffic. One thing I have been surprised with is that CO or Micronesia doesn't offer service to/from KIX. Why not? They serve almost everyplace else in Japan.

CO pulled out of KIX about a year ago or so, from GUM...I think we consolidated operations at NGO especially with the new HNL/NGO service... if I'm not mistaken but isn't KIX a "new" airport built on an island...why is the Japanese govt' spending more money on another new airport in the region after all the logistical problems that were overcome in order to construct KIX? It seems like an awful ot of money to spend for an underserved (apparrently) airport.
I believe NW used to run a flt JFK/KIX...but moved it to DTW because of some govt. regulations...
 
ktachiya
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 13):
if I'm not mistaken but isn't KIX a "new" airport built on an island...

Well it has been 11 years since the opening of KIX now.

Yes and the spending on a new airport is ridiculous. I think 90% of a significant number of people in Kobe petitioned to say no to the airport but it went ahead
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malaysia
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RE: When Were All The KIX-EU And NA Routes Dropped?

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
They could take a 90 min flight to ICN and then connect to the world on KE.

Actually I took NGO to US flights via SEL/ICN on OZ actually
it was cheaper then.
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