N200WN
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San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:25 pm

Here are some links for info on the upcoming expansion at SAT. Construction was supposed to start this past summer but was delayed due to some contracts having to be rebid to keep costs down.

www.sanantonio.gov/airport/yir2002.pdf

Scroll down to page three for a good diagram of the new terminal configuration. Furthere down are some good photos of the facility and of the remodel of both terminals that was completed in 2003.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/met...MYSA082805.4B.airport.2fe2773.html

I'll also post some info here about the current flight schedule at SAT for all airlines.
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:52 pm

Current flights into SAT per the Oct 2005 OAG and previous airline announcements:

# = Mainline
(#) = RJ
<#> = Commuter
* = Not yet started but announced

By Arrival City:

ATL - DL 6(3)
BWI - WN 2
ORD - AA 4 UA 2(2)
MDW - WN 1
CVG - DL 1(3)
CLE - CO (1)
DFW - AA 15
DAL - WN 15
DEN - UA 2(2) F9 2
DTW - NW 2
ELP - WN 4
HRL - WN 2
IAH - CO 10(1)
HOU - WN 10
MCI - XY 2
LAS - WN 4 HP (1)
LAX - WN 1 UA (1) AA 1*
MEM - NW 3
MEX - MX 2
MSP - NW 2
MTY - AM <2> operated by AeroLitoral
BNA - WN 1
EWR - CO 2
JFK - DL (1)*
MCO - DL (2) WN 1
PHX - WN 4 HP 1(3)
STL - AA 1(2)
SLC - DL 2(1)
SFO - UA (1)
TPA - WN 1
IAD - UA (1)*

By Airline:

AA - 21(2)
UA - 4(7)
DL - 9(10)
NW - 7
CO - 12(2)
HP - 1(4)
WN - 46
YX - 2
F9 - 2
MX - 2
AM - 2

Summary:

Airlines = 11
Cities = 31
Flights = 133 Total or 106(25)<2>

Interesting Facts - 47% of mainline flights go to just two markets, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Houston. The only commuter flights are international. No widebody service.
 
flashmeister
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:26 pm

The only commuter flights are international.
Commuter as in prop?
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:32 pm

Yes prop...both are Saab 340's.
 
flashmeister
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:47 pm

Also, market share as of end-of-year 2004:

WN: 35.1%
AA/Eagle: 19.1%
DL/DCI: 14.9%
CO/CoEx: 11.9%
UA/UAX: 6.2%
NW: 5.14%
HP/HPX: 3.0%
MX: 1.8%
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:28 pm

Good stuff 200 and Flash!

It's certainly been a banner year for SAT. Hopefully the new routes will garner the support they need to survive. USAiways to Charlotte or PHL is probably around the corner - in the spring perhaps.

Has actual construction begun between T1 and T2?
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 5):
USAiways to Charlotte or PHL is probably around the corner - in the spring perhaps.

I hope your right. I'm looking forward to seeing some new paint in SAT. Also hoping for AirTran to ATL and I keep looking for the rumored AA service to MIA.

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 5):
Has actual construction begun between T1 and T2?

No activity yet...they should start fencing off the area by the end of the month. Southwest will take the new Terminal B.
 
MFEFlyer
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:22 pm

Thats Great for SAT expansion, and also going through, I just wish we had the same for MFE, atleast an update for the master plan.
Valley Approach.....
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:24 pm

Great for Southwest moving into the new terminal. I guess with the two extra, non-used jetway positions near the WN gates in T1, it will be able to hold the rest.

From what I gather (heard), UPS will move to East Cargo soon freeing up that ramp for RONs. Continental will two semi-daily 757s RON in November.
 
legion242
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:37 pm

Very cool. I fly into SAT several times a year and have always dreaded the uphill walk from the terminal- I know it's not that bad, but an uphill walk is the last thing I want after flying  Embarrassment

Please answer a stoopid question for me though- whose code is HP? I am still learning all of them and this one is new to me.
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
MFEFlyer
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:43 pm

does anybody know with this expansion, and still.....more room for expansion, if SAT will ever become some kind of a hub? maybe a small hub like CLE, or CVG, for a major airline.
Valley Approach.....
 
FlyBoy84
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:43 pm

From what I understand, these initiatives were started under Kevin Dolliole, who is now Airport Director at STL.

I'm glad to see SAT getting such nice improvements. Terminal 1 looks like a first-class facility.

Hopefully, Mr. Dolliole can do something with STL that the previous director failed to do.
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:56 pm

HP - America West

I don't think SAT stands any chance of being a hub. Although way back in the late 70s Tejas Airlines had its hub in San Antonio - flying about 20 daily metroliners across south Texas.

Braniff referred to San Antonio as a hub in its Dec 15, 1978 timetable. This was the TT that introduced Braniff's ultimate demise however - as BN began a slew of post-deregulation routes they could not possibly be profitable flying. They were at this time flying nonstop from SAT to LAX, ORD and LGA (yep, LGA) among others.
 
legion242
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 12):
HP - America West

Cheers!!
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 8):
I guess with the two extra, non-used jetway positions near the WN gates in T1, it will be able to hold the rest.

You're right, there are two gates positions currently available so with WN's five there will be seven open gates when WN moves to the new Terminal B.

Quoting MFEFlyer (Reply 10):
if SAT will ever become some kind of a hub? maybe a small hub like CLE, or CVG, for a major airline.



Quoting ModernArt (Reply 12):
I don't think SAT stands any chance of being a hub

I agree, and with DFW, IAH, and HOU nearby it's just not going to happen.

[Edited 2005-10-06 17:11:49]
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 8):
From what I gather (heard), UPS will move to East Cargo soon freeing up that ramp for RONs. Continental will two semi-daily 757s RON in November.

That will be very much needed as RON space is at a premium now. It will get even worse when the construction starts, as the Terminal B location is currently the prime RON space for most airlines. In fact we were able to get Schedule Planning to reduce our Saturday RON aircraft by one because of the lack of space.
 
legion242
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:25 am

Another stoopid question- what is RON?
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:33 am

RON=remain over night
 
HOMER71
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:18 am

Isn't CO's Presidents Club in the old terminal? I guess they need space in Terminal A (formerly Terminal 1) to build one when they, AA, HP, etc. moves over.

Got to see some of the renovations in Terminal A - not bad, I like the metal clad columns and floating ceilings. And I've always loved the main terminal space with the high arched ceiling.

Terminal 2 just plain sucks, can't wait to see demolished.

Can't wait to see the renderings of the new concourse...
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
stirling
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 12):
They were at this time flying nonstop from SAT to LAX, ORD and LGA (yep, LGA) among others.

I have a fairly large BN timetable collection....but for some reason cannot find the timetables from this period.
Didn't BN serve Phoenix first from San Antonio before DFW?
I remember more routes too...wish I could find that timetable; just goes to show you how short-lived the BN "Hub" in SAT was!
---------------------------------------------------
Any discussion of Braniff genuinely makes me very sad.
Those that spent any amount of time in Dallas from the sixties to the seventies can probably agree. They were one in a million.
---------------------------------------------------
When I was growing up, going to J.J. Pearce H.S. in Dallas (Richardson), one of the electives offered was "Private Pilot Training"!
Kid you not.
The teacher of the course was a Braniff pilot, gosh I wish I could remember his name. He came over once a week, when he wasn't scheduled to be flying.
His route was DFW-SAT-ACA-MEX-SAT-DFW. Us kids thought that was extremely glamorous! Acapulco! Wow! It was in the days before Cancun and Cabo....
Anyway, he brought over an old-school instrument trainer BN didn't need anymore; we set up it in what was once the instructors office off the classroom.
The last month of the course was spent at Addison going up in a Cessna 152.

Do public schools offer such courses anymore?
-----------------------------------------------------
So SEA is one of the top O&D markets without a direct/nonstop flight?
Hello Alaska?

Love that old-style rotunda, aren't many of those designs left. DAL had one, and of course who could forget them at ATL!?
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stirling
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:31 am

Braniff's New Routes Post-Deregulation:


Braniff's Pre-Deregulation Routes:
Delete this User
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
just goes to show you how short-lived the BN "Hub" in SAT was!

I never knew BN's SAT operation was considered a hub. At its peak how many flights did BN operate out of SAT? Also, if I remember right, the first BN timetable to have SAN showed a route to SAT. The tt was orange and it was and I think it was sometime in '78.

Also, for the record, here is a list of other airlines that have operated mainline a/c out of SAT:

Braniff
Eastern
Western
Ozark
Texas International
Muse Air/Transtar
Pan Am
TWA
USAir
AirTran
Emerald
Western Pacific
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 20):
Braniff's New Routes Post-Deregulation

Thanks for posting that. So it looks like routes to IAH, MSY, DFW, PHX, TUS, and MSY. Was MEX also operated at this time?
 
stirling
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 21):
Also, for the record, here is a list of other airlines that have operated mainline a/c out of SAT:

Braniff
Eastern
Western
Ozark
Texas International
Muse Air/Transtar
Pan Am
TWA
USAir
AirTran
Emerald
Western Pacific

Add Conquest Airlines to the list!

Conquest Timetable Image
Delete this User
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 23):
Add Conquest Airlines to the list!

Although not mainline, still interesting. I've only been in SAT six years and would like to know more about the commuter flights that have been operated out of here in the past.
 
drerx7
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:58 am

Conquest used Metroliners IIRC and also flew down here to Houston (Sugarland) and Galveston at some point.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
stirling
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 22):
Thanks for posting that. So it looks like routes to IAH, MSY, DFW, PHX, TUS, and MSY. Was MEX also operated at this time?

Yes.
Here is an image of their International Plans!
Your eyes are not playing tricks on you; Braniff wanted to fly DFW/IAH nonstop to Bahrain.
http://www.braniffinternational.org/images/main/intlapplications79.gif

The routes to Mexico listed there on the map without dots; were intended to be served for the most part from San Antonio.

Quoting N200WN (Reply 21):
I remember right, the first BN timetable to have SAN showed a route to SAT. The tt was orange and it was and I think it was sometime in '78.

You would be correct.
Braniff flew to California pre-Deregulation; but only to South/Central America; the came by way of the package of routes gained with the Panagra acquisition.
At the time, Delta and American had the DFW-California market pretty well locked up, so SAT became the initial gateway city for these first domestic routes connecting the Golden State with the rest of the network.
Later these routes eventually migrated up to DFW.

I am trying to determine who had the first jet service to San Antonio?

Was it BN with their 707 DAL-SAT-MEX?
Or AA with their 707 CHI-GSW-SAT-MEX?

I think it was BN....I'd love to know for sure if anyone knows.
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CaptOveur
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:03 am

I'll be surprised if the airport expansion actually happens. This city has a knack for screwing up anything involving large sums of money.

Also, the airport is surrounded by rich, white people (the ones the city government listens to). They are also the ones who bitch the loudest about the airport.. Apparently they somehow missed that airport being there when they bought their house. Anyway, Until stuff actually starts happening I will remain doubtful.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MFEFlyer
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:04 am

Yea, I remember conquest at MFE back in '95, I remember when they would park next to gate 1, where customs is at
Valley Approach.....
 
flashmeister
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:25 am

USAiways to Charlotte or PHL is probably around the corner - in the spring perhaps.
US announced service SAT-CLT service on 21 August 2001... obviously it never started after 9/11 (Source: US Press Release)

SAT is a cool little airport. I lived in SAT from 2000-2002, and flew out of there many times. Loved the itty-bitty taxi times on DL from their gates to Rwy 3. Terminal 2 was a complete dump, though. Glad they're axing it.

I left before they remodeled Terminal 1. It always seemed a incomplete to me -- a nice arching terminal that just wasn't finished right, or something. The pictures I've seen look like they've definitely fixed that problem.

One question I have is where will the Military Reception Center move to? That was in Terminal 2, off to the left as you went through the security checkpoint in the hallway down to the satellite. If you were a USAF Trainee (I wasn't, but I was familiar with it), you generally flew to SAT, reported to MRC, and off to Lackland you went. It was the entrance to Basic Training, for all intents and purposes. Any idea where that will be moving to?
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 29):
Terminal 2 was a complete dump, though. Glad they're axing it.

And surprisingly, it was redone in 2003 knowing that it would be torn down within 6 years, it was that bad.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 29):
One question I have is where will the Military Reception Center move to

You're right, USAF BMT reception was off to the left when heading into the satellite. It was there until the remodel in '03 and now it is located, with the USO, back in what I think are the old Eastern gates, 39 and 40 or something like that.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:06 am

Quoting N200WN (Reply 30):
And surprisingly, it was redone in 2003 knowing that it would be torn down within 6 years, it was that bad.

That topic is currently a favorite of the local news.. A lot of the revamp was due to security changes post 9/11.. It was a dump, but I had been in much worse (DTW for example)

fact is that terminal isn't used much.. Just AA, CO, and HP I think. The other terminal is pretty nice, and doesn't stink or anything.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
legion242
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:17 am

Those old route maps are cool.
What a/c would Braniff have used for the DFW-Bahrain?
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:21 am

Wow, so much SAT interest.

The BN SAT-San Diego nonstop listed in the timetable, however I don't think it ever actually operated.

Pretty sure BN was the first jet operator at SAT, starting 707 service in March/April 1960.

Tejas operated to about 7 destinations in south Texas and up to Ft. Worth. Permian flew to San Angelo or Del Rio. Emerald flew for Pan Am using DC9s and Fokkers. Metro had a once weekly DHT flight to Laredo and Houston. There was an airline that flew YS-11s to FTW in the 80s also AAEagle flew to Laredo at one point. There were many others.

As for me, I would love to see a photo of Mexicana's Comet at SAT. They flew it in regular service to Mexico for several years before replacing it with 727s.
 
thecamel67
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting Captoveur (Reply 27):
Also, the airport is surrounded by rich, white people (the ones the city government listens to). They are also the ones who bitch the loudest about the airport.. Apparently they somehow missed that airport being there when they bought their house. Anyway, Until stuff actually starts happening I will remain doubtful.

Uh, no not really. As somebody who grew up just south of 410 between Broadway and Nacodoches I can testify that we were not "rich." However we are white. Not sure what that has to do with anything??? I used to sit on my roof and watch the planes off 12R.

The "09" area or Alamo Heights, Terrell Hills, and Olmos Park is several miles to the south and out of the way for the normal departure noise pattern for 12R. I would imagine those users of the airport would welcome the new facilities.

Sad to say that SAT is too far south and too close to IAH/DFW to ever become a hub. I often wondered if a hub for a Mexican carrier primarily carring pax from North America to Mexico/Central America (a'la Iberia's former Miami hub) would work for the US's most "Mexican" American city. But with new immigration policy, that will remain a fantasy.

San Antonio has been able to grow its corporate base recently with SBC, Toyota, etc so there is hope for expanded point to point service as well as service to hubs not currently in the mix.

The master plan for the expanded pier setup has been in place and dormant since the early 90's. I still have some of the old paper files from my college days. I must say the nostalgic side of me will miss Terminal 2. It always had that homey feel to it with art along the wall as you walk out to the circular end of the building.

Best memory. My first solo commercial flight was on the the BN Calder 727 to DFW to see my aunt.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:38 am

I guess Shavano Park and Castle hills don't count.. And actually, I went over Alamo Heights when I flew out of there in August.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 33):
The BN SAT-San Diego nonstop listed in the timetable, however I don't think it ever actually operated

You're right it never did commence and I don't think the original BN ever served SAN.

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 33):
As for me, I would love to see a photo of Mexicana's Comet at SAT. They flew it in regular service to Mexico for several years before replacing it with 727s.

That would be cool to see. I wonder how many other US airports saw Comet service?
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:06 pm

All MX stations pre-1970 (LAX, MIA, ORD and SAT) probably saw Comet service at some point.

Others? Using the photo search only photos of scheduled flights at JFK and Miami. Maybe Boston, PHL and Baltimore did as well. Can't say for sure.

However, SAT may have been the last U.S. airport to see scheduled Comets. The 10/70 MX TT that I have shows all 727s to MIA, LAX and ORD with a split 727/Comet schedule for SAT.
 
flashmeister
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:21 pm

Also, the airport is surrounded by rich, white people (the ones the city government listens to). They are also the ones who bitch the loudest about the airport...
Actually, I had a few friends who lived in that neighborhood on the other side of Wurzbach Pkwy immediately off the end of Runway 3. Off of Wetmore, near McAlister Park. That seems to be the neighborhood that gets the brunt of airport noise, since it's one of the neighborhoods that's the closest to the runways' edge...

That neighborhood may have been nice when it was built 15 years ago, but I gotta say that it sure seemed like a dump (IMHO) when I was there. The spotting was pretty good, though!
 
N200WN
Topic Author
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:36 pm

I dug up my old OAG from June 1986 to see how SAT has progressed over the last 19 odd years. Kind of surprising...

1986:
Airlines = 14
Cities = 22
Flights = 112 (105 Mainline/7 Prop)

2005:
Airlines = 11
Cities = 31
Flights = 133 (106 Mainline/25 RJ/2 Prop)

1986 Arrivals Breakdown:

ATL - DL 3 EA 3
AUS - AL 2 TWA 1 UA 1 AA <2>
ORD - AA 1 UA 2
CUU - 6B <2> (6B was Texas National back then)
CRP - EA 2 UA 1 6B <3>
DFW - AA 10 DL 7
DAL - WN 15
DEN - UA 3 CO 1
ELP - WN 3
HRL - WN 2
HOU - WN 10 PA 3 MC 1
IAH - CO 7 AL 1
LAS - WN 2
LAX - MC 3
MEX - MX 1
GDL/MTY - MX 1 (4/wk from GDL and 3/wk from MTY)
MSY - MC 2 TWA 1 EA 1
PHX - WN 3
PIT - AL 2
STL - OZ 4 TW 4
SLC - Western 2

By Airline:

UA - 7
DL - 10
AA - 11 <2>
CO - 8
TWA - 6
EA - 6
AL - 5
MC - 6
PA - 3
MX - 2
OZ - 4
Western - 2
WN - 35
6B - <5>
 
N200WN
Topic Author
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:05 am

Another update for SAT...Southwest will be adding some flights next February by increasing service to two cities and adding a new nonstop route. It hasn't been released yet so I can't spill the beans. But it's good to see some growth here since most all of the new flights have been in the NE and at MDW (WN started a SAT-MDW on Oct 2nd).
 
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modernArt
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 40):
It hasn't been released yet so I can't spill the beans.

Hmmm, that's great. I have three cities in mind - two east, one west. Thanks for the update. Will be waiting to hear.
 
stirling
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting Thecamel67 (Reply 34):
Best memory. My first solo commercial flight was on the the BN Calder 727 to DFW to see my aunt.

In the words of Napoleon Dynamite......"Lucky!"
Delete this User
 
N200WN
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RE: San Antonio - SAT Update

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:32 pm

Passenger traffic is up this year in San Antonio - Latest info:


http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/10/17/story4.html

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