okees
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:41 pm

Air France And The A380

Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:04 am

Air France currently has 3 flights a day to montreal from paris. I was wondering if the number of flights will decrease when the A380 comes into service. Will any other airlines cut down the number of flights from one point to another when the A380 comes into service?
Any thoughts on that?

Regards
okees
mobs jakis
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France And The A380

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:23 am

Summer 2005 has just finished.
AF was very successful with its 3 x Daily flights to YUL this summer ... by the time the A380 will enter in service with AF, you can be sure that the demand on routes such as CDG-YUL , CDG-JFK, or CDG-NRT will grow.
There comes a point where just adding frequencies to face the increasing demand becomes ridiculous ... or impossible (slot restrictions like in NRT) : the A380 will be an answer to those problems.

I am sure you still see 3 x Daily or even 4 x Daily on CDG-YUL, one of them being an A380, during the summer 2008 .

For your information, AF plans to increase its offer of seats to North America by 33% within the next two years. It won´t be possible by just adding frequencies but also by using bigger aircraft, to keep a good yield.
 
Slarty
Posts: 302
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RE: Air France And The A380

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting Okees (Thread starter):
Air France currently has 3 flights a day to montreal from paris. I was wondering if the number of flights will decrease when the A380 comes into service. Will any other airlines cut down the number of flights from one point to another when the A380 comes into service?

Good questions. I would imagine that unless AF has substantially increased the numbers of pax travelling on that city pair, the number of flights would decrease if they introduced the A380. Furthermore, I would also expect that other airlines wouldn't be impacted, unless AF gains substantial market share on that route.

YUL is not much of a world-hub airport anymore (used to be in the running in Canada, but YMX/YYZ killed that   ). CDG-YUL is a medium-haul route, with both airports (CDG and YUL), not overly constrained by arrival/departure slots.

I think you need to start looking at city pairs, where the traffic far exceeds a few thousand passengers or so a day. Look towards Asia ...

Edit: Let me change that last comment: "Look towards Asia ..." to "Look towards Asia in the coming decade ..."  Smile

[Edited 2005-10-12 00:18:53]
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France And The A380

Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:23 pm

Quoting Slarty (Reply 2):
I think you need to start looking at city pairs, where the traffic far exceeds a few thousand passengers or so a day.

With 3 x Daily flights this summer, AF alone offered more than 1000 seats everyday on CDG-YUL-CDG. Add to this the offer (much lower) of Air Canada and the Charters ...

In terms of seat offered DAILY, CDG-YUL-CDG is the second biggest long-haul line for AF, behind CDG-JFK-CDG and before CDG-NRT-CDG ...
 
Slarty
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Air France And The A380

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Flyssc (Reply 3):
With 3 x Daily flights this summer, AF alone offered more than 1000 seats everyday on CDG-YUL-CDG. Add to this the offer (much lower) of Air Canada and the Charters ...

In terms of seat offered DAILY, CDG-YUL-CDG is the second biggest long-haul line for AF, behind CDG-JFK-CDG and before CDG-NRT-CDG ...

OK, you could be right. I guess I really wasn't thinking about what AF would actually use the A380 for. If these are their highest density routes, it is logical to assume that they will use them there.

Also, the distance from CDG-YUL is only 2991 nm. To me, although it is a trans-atlantic, this is not a long haul today ... but I stand to be corrected here too  Smile
 
yulqc
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 1:41 pm

RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:01 am

The traffic between CDG and YUL is huge. Do not forget YUL is the second biggest French city in the world. I don't know about economics, but culturally, we get all of their movies in theatres here, we send them our singers and vice-versa, we adapt their TV shows (Star Academie, Tout le monde en parle..).. Ask every single Quebecker, and they'll tell you that one day they would like to visit France.. Walk across this province in the summer, and you hear the lovely French accent in Old Montreal, in Charlevoix, in Gaspé and Saguenay... YYZ, YVR, YYC, YYT, YHZ are all very well linked to LHR.. YUL is with CDG. And if I remember correctly, AF also connects people to YOW and YQB on their YUL flights either with Via Rail or some bus company... Get off the flight and get on the bus or train... But I might be wrong on this one.

Later!
319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 388, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, MD88, L-1011, Dash-8
 
Slarty
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RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:14 am

I did a quick check (Sat. Oct. 15) and it looks like there are currently 6 flights a day in this city pair. (3 AF, 1 AC, 2 Air Transat: 1 777w, 1 744, 3 A330, 1 A310). Pretty kewl!

Does anyone have (or a link to) a list of world city-pairs with more pax traffic than this?
 
anxebla
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RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):
For your information, AF plans to increase its offer of seats to North America by 33% within the next two years.

And what about the France-Asia market, flySSC?

Quoting Slarty (Reply 6):
I did a quick check (Sat. Oct. 15) and it looks like there are currently 6 flights a day in this city pair. (3 AF, 1 AC, 2 Air Transat

Does Air Transat two daily flights from YUL to CDG?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting Slarty (Reply 6):
Does anyone have (or a link to) a list of world city-pairs with more pax traffic than this?

Start with JFK-LHR, JFK-CDG and then work your way down.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 7):
Does Air Transat two daily flights from YUL to CDG?

In summer, yes. One of them makes an enroute stop in YQB.

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 7):
And what about the France-Asia market, flySSC?

Asia is more a "target" for KLM, especially South-East Asia (MNL, KUL, CGK ...) while AF will concentrate on NRT ( 20 x Weekly next winter, 3 x Daily next year and the A380 soon.) and China (two more destinations not served by any other European airlines should be announced ).
 
quebecair727
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:16 pm

RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting Slarty (Reply 6):
I did a quick check (Sat. Oct. 15) and it looks like there are currently 6 flights a day in this city pair. (3 AF, 1 AC, 2 Air Transat: 1 777w, 1 744, 3 A330, 1 A310). Pretty kewl!

As a matter of fact, I have seen up to 9 flights a day between YUL and CDG/ORY this summer. They were:

The three Air France (343-744-333); the two Air Canada (333-762), the two Transat(333-310); one Corsair (332) and one Zoom (763).

Thats a lot of seats if you ask me.

The first time they talked about brining the 380 to YUL, it was supposed to bring the number of AF flights down to two. As one said earlier, by then the demand may have grown to a point that will justify the same amount of flights including one 380.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
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RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:17 pm

AF brought this summer, their COI 744 with 475 seats.

Given that their 380 will have around 550 seats, its increase in seat over the 744, will be consistent with over all market place growth.

Therefore its safe to assume 3 flights.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France And The A380

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:31 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 11):
AF brought this summer, their COI 744 with 475 seats.

474 seats (17J / 457Y)  Wink

Total AF's daily offer this summer on CDG-YUL-CDG :

1 B773ER = 8P / 67J / 235Y = 310 seats
1 B774 = 17J / 457Y = 474 seats
1 A332 = 6P / 42J / 163Y = 211 seats

Total = 995 seats.

I was on duty last Oct.7 on board AF347 YUL-CDG (B744) we took off full PAX + Two Jumpseats ...

Believe me, 3 x Daily flights including one A380 on CDG-YUL-CDG won't be to much in two years ...