aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:57 am

IA floats tenders to lease 12 wide-bodied aircraft
Indian Airlines (IA) has floated tenders to lease 12 wide-bodied aircraft to launch new foreign operations, while its subsidiary Alliance Air would lease two Business Jets for operations of oil major ONGC.

The IA tenders, to be opened on November 21, expresses the carrier's interest in leasing 12 aircraft -- either A-310-300s, A-330, A-340 or Boeing-767 (Extended Range) and B-777s -- for a period of five years, extendable up to seven.

This is the second time this year that IA has floated the tenders for wide-bodied aircraft as the previous tenders did not receive any firm response.

Hindustan Times

My other post was about a news item about the merger of AI and IC. Now this one talks about IC leasing aircraft for international flight. I don't see synergy happening.
Cheers anyway!!
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Aseem (Thread starter):
My other post was about a news item about the merger of AI and IC. Now this one talks about IC leasing aircraft for international flight. I don't see synergy happening.

As I understand, the last tender that IC floated did not result in any offers. Since I am hoping for an eventual AI and IC merger, I pray that they are unable to attract any offers for the current tender.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 1):
Since I am hoping for an eventual AI and IC merger, I pray that they are unable to attract any offers for the current tender.

Your wish shall be fulfilled. Amen!!
Who in right mind is submitting a quotation for RFP when used aircrafts are so hard to find. Unless they're happy with some L-1011 or B727 at Mojave.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:10 pm

Thats been around for some time now.....I Feel a merger will solve things better.
Given the choice Why not go for A300-600Rs.Will be Easier to Mantain.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-10-12 10:32:45]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Pomnath
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:19 pm

When the multiple airlines from the Gulf countries shut down, then we won't have to go as far as the Mojave or other American deserts to look for airplanes.

I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

As for IC wide-bodies, just imagine the havoc for competition (and joy for pax) that a few A-300s would create on the metro routes in India in all-economy configurations.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:31 pm

Hgher Oil Prices - so the governments which prop up the airlines have even more cash to prop up the airlines.......

So where is the collapse going to come ?

The collapse will come instead in the Indian domestic sector..........
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 4):
I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

Same will happen on the Indian market. When supply exceeds demand and prices drop, it will happen that some carriers go bankrupt.. lots of frames for IC, 9W etc to pick up within India
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Pomnath
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):
Hgher Oil Prices - so the governments which prop up the airlines have even more cash to prop up the airlines.......

So where is the collapse going to come ?

Economics-101, this is not the right forum for that subject.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:18 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):

due to rising oil prices, these airlines won't have passengers to fill. They'll keep flying so long as their owners can affort to fly their planes empty.
As Pomnath rightly said, not the best place to discuss this issue!!
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
lh477
Posts: 567
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 4):
I got hold of some numbers on yield that some of these airlines achieve, and all those low figures were fine as long as the economies were booming. But where the truth is that despite higher il prices a recession is looming large in their faces, then the first thing on the market will be all those surplus airplanes.

Gulf Carriers may better be able to handle a recession then some their counterparts in Asia....A good chunk are government owned, and the
the Oil revenues are quiet rich at the moment........
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 9):
Gulf Carriers may better be able to handle a recession then some their counterparts in Asia....A good chunk are government owned,

A good chunk are government owned also in South Asia..  Wink - and there are big benefits if it remains like this, albeit significantly modified (i.e. full autonomy). The US scenario is scary.. but I better stop, otherwise some users will again chant "Communist, son of Arundathi, or JNU-Whisky Junkey"  sarcastic 
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:35 am

If any of you think that the Gulf carriers will shut down, keep dreaming.

Perhaps an LCC like Air Arabia may go under, but the gulf states will never let their state carriers - Emirates, Qatar, Etihad - go under.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Pomnath
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:01 am

Way back in the '70s and then the '80s, the Gulf Watnis said the same thing about their shipping fleets too. They went and bought the most expensive ships (though not the best), employed the most expensive ship-management people (though not the best), spent money like there was no tomorrow, and then vanished, leaving the oceans and their ports to the shipping companies of the world again.

Likewise today, take a look at their levels of inefficiency and their dropping standards of service.

Sure, they may not shut down in the true sense of the word, but there will be a whole lot of slightly used aircraft coming up for resale soon.

I mean, who wants to go to UAE for a holiday when Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur beckon?
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
Likewise today, take a look at their levels of inefficiency and their dropping standards of service.

Please expand. Dubai as a financial and transportation hub is leaps and bounds ahead of the backwater it was in the 70s and 80s.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
Sure, they may not shut down in the true sense of the word, but there will be a whole lot of slightly used aircraft coming up for resale soon.

I suspect that EK will be dumping their A332s and A343s at some point in time anyways once they reach a certain age.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
I mean, who wants to go to UAE for a holiday when Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur beckon?

All those people filling the EK, AI and CX flights to Dubai,
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
na
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:11 am

A330s, 777s and A340s will be hard to find, Emirates might dump some early 777s soon as new 773ERs keep coming in (the lease-terms for their A340s are longer). 767 are offloaded by the dozen these days (though less of the ERs), so that could be a chance. Otherwise they should knock at the door of NWA and snap some well-kept 742s (if they aren´t too big at least leasing rates should be far cheaper than the one of the 777)!
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:57 am

IC and 767ER's???
Will AI help maintain them? Does that make sense? Probably a "something better than nothing" scenario i guess.
-Nikhil
eP007
 
Thorben
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
I suspect that EK will be dumping their A332s and A343s at some point in time anyways once they reach a certain age.

Not as long as they can't open routes due to lack of aircraft.

Quoting NA (Reply 14):
A330s, 777s and A340s will be hard to find

I agree, I think only a few non-ER 772s from United would be available.

But there should be enough A313s or 767s around.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:07 am

the idea should be to get whichever aircraft they can lay hands on and start the route. By the time better aircrafts are available they'd have generated some revenue, loyalty and recognition.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
LH459
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting MrNiji (Reply 10):
Communist, son of Arundathi, or JNU-Whisky Junkey"

Once again, re-affirming why you're on my ru list! Big grin
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
Thorben
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 17):
the idea should be to get whichever aircraft they can lay hands on and start the route. By the time better aircrafts are available they'd have generated some revenue, loyalty and recognition.

Which routes are they going to be used on??
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 19):
Which routes are they going to be used on??

was in press a while ago that they have been authorized to fly UK and SYD.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
Pomnath
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:28 am

Jaysit, ports in Dubai and rest of the UAE for that matter, survives on the entrepot/transhipment business that the Indian sub-Continent gives them. Currently the Iraq and Afghan mess adds to that.

Once that stops, and have you seen how JNPT and other Indian ports do lately, what next?

Likewise, airports. Every additional direct flight to every small airport in India is that many fewer people hubbing "via Dubai etc.", right?

And as for the banking and property boom in Dubai, have a heart, the place does not even have a decent legal system in place as yet for property inheritance rights for outsiders. What are we talking about?
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
TKMCE
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:39 am

Post 9/11, literally every western airline faced a huge slump in traffic. The South Asia Middle East route never did. Same thing will happen in the future also.

Virtually all the ME airlines has little or no (like QR) exposure to US. Most of the exposure is to the sub continent and to Europe where they basicallycarry connecting traffic (like QRs KTM and MLE routes or EKs OZ routes).

And the ME routes, beleive me even if low yield, with very very high load factors, all of them are minting money.

Last year the biggest capacity increase during winter open skies were by QR and EK. QR nearly quadrupled flights to stations like HYD and COK.. And remeber this happned in the theoretically "off peak" season for ME traffic .Even under this scenario, the flights went full.


Dont forget that the subcontinent (as well as markets like MNL which aso has a huge labour traffic) are not sensitive to CNN or BBC showng visuals of a bomb explosion in some small town, trigerring off cancellations by the hundreds by jumpy pax scared to death by ill informed media.

Cheers
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 5):
The collapse will come instead in the Indian domestic sector..........

The Bubble is predicted to burst in 2007.

If IC chooses A300-600Rs They have their own Mx.The B777s would need UA help until AI AMEs fulfill their 1 yr experience requirement on type.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Indian Airlines To Lease Widebodies

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:37 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 21):
And as for the banking and property boom in Dubai, have a heart, the place does not even have a decent legal system in place as yet for property inheritance rights for outsiders

Interestingly, Islamic Banking is one of the great "sectors" the UAE are building on. And for this, their future is comparatively prosperous.. sometimes the lack of de jure regulations is offset by the reinvirogation of "alternative" approaches.. Of course, it is rather liberal than orthodox islabic banking that is arising here.. look at SIN, the next willing hub for "non-Western" business  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)

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