sunphilips23
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A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:47 pm

The cabin width of the A350 is 17ft 4in,( www.airbus.com),
the cabin width of the B787 is 18ft 10in,( www.boeing.com).
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:23 pm

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

ask Leahy
 
Scorpio
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Wider and more comfortable than the A330. Don't think they claim it's wider than the 787...
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:37 pm

18ft 10in is the exterior fuselage width of the B787, not the cabin width.

The A350 will have an interior cabin width slightly greater than that of the A330 (by means of thinner insulation). It will still have a narrower cabin than the B787, but only by several inches, not 18 inches as the OP suggests.
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Perfectly legitimately! Ignore Xkorpyoh's glib response.

The A350 has the same fuselage cross-section as the A330 (222in), but has a wider cabin. Therefore, they are perfectly correct to say the A350 cabin is wider.

The A350 will have higher cabin humidity and higher cabin pressure than the A330. Therefore, they are perfectly correct to say the A350 cabin is more comfortable.

Easy really. It is spun, naturally, but no more than any claims that Boeing make.

Of course, if you're a complete plane bigot, then everything the other guy says is spin or out-and-out lies, whereas everything your guy says is passed down directly from God.  wink 
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khenleydia
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:38 pm

Notice though, that they don't bother to point out that they are referring to the A330. General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787 since that is what they keep hearing it is designed to compete with.

KhenleyDIA
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Gman94
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Notice though, that they don't bother to point out that they are referring to the A330. General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787 since that is what they keep hearing it is designed to compete with.

The general public don't give a toss, most don't even know or care what type of aircraft they are getting on. Only the folk on here pick apart and dissect every word that Airbus or Boeing
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JetMaster
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

Where exactly is that statement?


Regards,
JM
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sebolino
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787

Certainly not.
The general public only knows the 747.
 
A342
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:49 pm

The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330´s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Geo772
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:50 pm

Many companies use this kind of wording. Quite often with cars they will talk about best in class dynamics or economy even when the product doesn't shine at either claim. The class might be 5 seat cars between 3.4 and 3.45 meters long. The vehicle might be the only one to meet the class criteria.

Airbus could also be comparing the A350 with the 767 and their claims are just as valid as comparing it with the A330.

Fortunately most people involved in buying an aircraft will make the purchase with a little more information than the general public will ever know about the aircraft.
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drerx7
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:53 pm

Propaganda in semantics--a good marketing strategy.
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Francoflier
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:00 am

cabin width really only makes a difference if you compare it with the abreast seating configuration.

The A380 is wider than the 747, but will have 3-5-3 seating on the lower deck, and for the guy seating in the center row, let me tell you, he'll be REAL glad he is flying an aircraft that is wider than the 747...

The aircraft width don't mean sh#t to the passenger, they just care about how wide their seat is, and where it is located.

I guess it will all depend on how operators make use of the width of the A350 and 787. If they have the same abreast seating config, then I guess the 787 might boast wider seats/aisles.
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jacobin777
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 8):
Certainly not.
The general public only knows the 747.

even thats not a certainty.....I was in Paris a couple of months ago, and this guy was pointing a 777 to his family telling them that it was a 747!.. crazy 
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khenleydia
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:05 am

Well, I have been wrong before. Oh well.  cry 

KhenleyDIA
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Hamlet69
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

Correct.

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330´s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.

Wrong. I don't have the respective exterior dimensions, but the 787 will have a cabin 8in wider than the A330 (and thus 5in wider than the A350).


Regards,

Hamlet69
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cloudyapple
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:19 am

It would be possible given the ambiguous cabin width for some airlines like emirates (if they choose the 787) to do a 3-3-3 just like the have done a 10 abreast on the 777. There are cabin widths that prohibit 9 abreast straight away but the 787 can be a generous 8 or a slightly tight squeeze 9 abreast. Some have done 3-3-3 on 330 so the extra 8 inches on the 787 over the 330 makes this a realistic prospect.

Start slimming down guys.
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 11):
Propaganda in semantics--a good marketing strategy.

Indeed. Something of which both Airbus and Boeing are guilty. That's why they have salesmen and marketing departments.

Shocking eh?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 16):
There are cabin widths that prohibit 9 abreast straight away but the 787 can be a generous 8 or a slightly tight squeeze 9 abreast.

9-abreast seats on a 787 will be comperable to economy seats on the 737NG and 757.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 15):
Wrong. I don't have the respective exterior dimensions, but the 787 will have a cabin 8in wider than the A330 (and thus 5in wider than the A350).

Boeing also claims that the cabin will feel even wider. This is because while the A350 and B787 are only 3-5in different at their widest point the Boeing is actually significantly wider at the shoulder and eye-ball level. I seem to remember something on the order of 15-17in. My biggest complain with the A330/340 is how quickly the sidewalls curve inward. They do this to such a degree that by eye-ball level they are narrower than the seats. This is definitely not a problem with the 767 or 777.

The Airbus narrowbodies also have this problem, though not to the same degree, that and they are significantly wider the the 737s at their widest point.
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330�s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.

The B787's composite fuselage allows for about 4 inches of additional cabin width for a given fuselage diameter. So, the B787's cabin width advantage over the A350 should be about the same (5 inches) as the A320's cabin width advantage over the B737. Noticable, but not dramatic.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 19):
They do this to such a degree that by eye-ball level they are narrower than the seats.

Because it's round... :O boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 787. Ovoids are aerodynamically less efficient than a round cross/section (slightly) and heavier structurally.

Disclaimer: Comparing to 100% efficient ideal planes, not Airbuses.
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Glom
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 21):
boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 787.

The 777 was cylindrical, but it's just that it's a honkin' cylinder.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
The B787's composite fuselage allows for about 4 inches of additional cabin width for a given fuselage diameter. So, the B787's cabin width advantage over the A350 should be about the same (5 inches) as the A320's cabin width advantage over the B737. Noticable, but not dramatic.

Well if it means one-inch(plus) wider seats, like the Airbus narrowbody's cabin offers over the 737, it may be both.  Wink

I for one am powerfully thankful for that extra inch when I am on a UA Airbus vs. a UA 737.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:44 am

From Memory;

Airbus are claiming 208 inches for the internal diameter of 350.

Boeing are claiming 214" internal diameter for 787.

However, Airbus max diam is at floor level, while 787 max diam is actually at shoulder level.

Thus at shoulder level the 787 will have an even greatyer advantage.

I have not seen the figures but I have been told that the Airbus diam at floor level is greater than the 787.

Since we don't sit on the floor, I would expect the 787 to be noticeably more comfortable for the passengers. The 787 at 9 abreast will have seats which are 1/2" wider at the cushion level. It will have more "headroom" also.

(If any of you nare concerned about inward sloping walls, take a look at the 380 upper level).

Ruscoe
 
Johnny
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:53 am

Hi,

it is the same game we heard for month now.mine is wider than yours...  Wink
or longer,faster,cheaper,etc...

i think if it would be 5inch (12,7cm) more cabin with on a new 737/757 with 6 abreast seating,than it would be great and also notable by the pax.

but 5inch (12,7cm) on a widebody airplane with at least 8 seats abreast in eco,that is only 0,63inch (1,59cm) more width for every single seat.

that is nothing!!! and it is really NOT possible to put 9 abreast in it as it was mentioned by some airliners.net-guys...probably for some charter airlines,but not for scheduled-airlines!
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Well if it means one-inch(plus) wider seats, like the Airbus narrowbody's cabin offers over the 737, it may be both. Wink

I for one am powerfully thankful for that extra inch when I am on a UA Airbus vs. a UA 737.

I believe the seats on UA's A320s are 1/2 an inch wider than those on UA's B737s and the aisle is also wider. 1/2 an inch might not sound like much, but people do notice.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 25):
but 5inch (12,7cm) on a widebody airplane with at least 8 seats abreast in eco,that is only 0,63inch (1,59cm) more width for every single seat.

that is nothing!!!

I disagree. 1/2 inch wider seats and 1/2 inch wider aisles make for a more pleasant flying experience.
 
atmx2000
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 21):
Because it's round... :O boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 787. Ovoids are aerodynamically less efficient than a round cross/section (slightly) and heavier structurally.

Hmm, may you meant until the 777, which was the first circular cross section from Boeing. The 787 is non circular, and as a result the walls curve at a slower rate as one goes up from floor level.

Quote:
Disclaimer: Comparing to 100% efficient ideal planes, not Airbuses.

Zing!
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ikramerica
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 19):
I seem to remember something on the order of 15-17in. My biggest complain with the A330/340 is how quickly the sidewalls curve inward. They do this to such a degree that by eye-ball level they are narrower than the seats. This is definitely not a problem with the 767 or 777.

The Airbus narrowbodies also have this problem, though not to the same degree, that and they are significantly wider the the 737s at their widest point.

bingo. but the reason isn't exactly as stated next...

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 21):
Because it's round... :O boeing planes have been ovoids all the way until the 78

not quite

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
However, Airbus max diam is at floor level, while 787 max diam is actually at shoulder level.

It's the floor position within the shape, not the ovoid vs. circle.

To increase cargo area, the Airbus locates the floors in their planes higher up in relation to Boeing. Notice on airbus planes the window locations, the lack of crown space, etc., etc. How do you think A fits all those containers in the belly of the 300 series fuselage?

This placement is a negative for overhead bins, shoulder room at the windows, and even headroom. It's one reason you can see the huge difference in the 777 vs. 340 diagrams Boeing always offers.

B has made a positive out of the "negative" space in the 747/777 and now 787 crowns by offering various rests and and storage spaces up there, as have third party fittings companies. It's effectively 2.5 floors. On the Airbus planes, they've had to eat into the cargo space for crewrests, extra bathrooms, what have you, which kind of negates the whole reason for the floor position in the first place, but only on longhaul planes, so overall, the design is more efficient with space on the Airbus.
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incitatus
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
(If any of you nare concerned about inward sloping walls, take a look at the 380 upper level).

This is floorspace that gets wasted in economy configuration but in premium classes it is useful as sleeping space. Smart airlines will make the main deck of the A380 all economy and come up with some clever sleeping bed design for the the F/C cabins upstairs.
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TinkerBelle
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 8):
The general public only knows the 747.

Hope 'general public' doesn't include the media coz they can never get anything right about airplanes.
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:35 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
It will have more "headroom" also.

That's not what Airbus said in their press conference at the A350 launch.
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sq212
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.

I simply cannot understand the logic why Airbus is saying the difference will hardly be noticeable, but they're boosting a 4-inch wider interior footprint in their A350?

Cheers
 
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 24):
(If any of you nare concerned about inward sloping walls, take a look at the 380 upper level).

It is probably no different to the 747 upper deck.
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Stitch
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 26):
I believe the seats on UA's A320s are 1/2 an inch wider than those on UA's B737s and the aisle is also wider. 1/2 an inch might not sound like much, but people do notice.

UA's stated seat-width (and my own measurements) show their A320 and A319 equipment having 18" wide seats (same as their 767/777) in Y with an aisle similar to the 737.

You can go with a six inch wider aisle (to make it easier for people to pass during drink/meal service) or inch wider seats, and fortunately UA chose the latter (as I believe most A31x/A32x operators do).
 
Alitalia744
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
The 787 fuselage is 10cm(4in) wider than the A330´s one, no idea about the additional cabin width.
Airbus claims a 7.6cm(3in) wider cabin for the A350 compared to the A330.

You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.

If the difference is hardly noticeable, then why do all you Airbus fans constantly talk about how much wider the A320 vs. 737NG?

Kettle is that you?
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Slarty
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:07 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 33):
It is probably no different to the 747 upper deck

I thought the A380 will have a vastly superior upper deck compared to the 747, in terms of width and side curve.
 
JetMaster
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting Slarty (Reply 36):
I thought the A380 will have a vastly superior upper deck compared to the 747, in terms of width and side curve.

Yes, it will.


Regards,
JM
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zvezda
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Slarty (Reply 36):
I thought the A380 will have a vastly superior upper deck compared to the 747, in terms of width and side curve.

Yes, the WhaleJet's upperdeck is much more spacious and much closer in feeling to a normal widebody than that of the JumboJet. For overnight flights, I like the coziness of the JumboJet's upperdeck, but I'm not fond of it for daytime flights. I've so far only been in a mockup (at FRA) of the WhaleJet and I'm sure the real plane will feel a little different. Anyway, I'm looking forward to flying the WhaleJet. I'm sure it will remind me of the myth of Noah. At least the flight won't be three days.  Smile
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
You see, the difference will hardly be noticeable.

Page 75 tells a different story:

http://www.boeing.com/nosearch/exec_pres/China.pdf
 
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Notice though, that they don't bother to point out that they are referring to the A330. General public would assume (I bet) that they mean the B787 since that is what they keep hearing it is designed to compete with.

The general public would not give a crap what model or make of plane they are flying on, nor would they ever look at the airbus website. The majority of the general public would not even be able to tell the difference between an airbus and a boeing.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 1):
Quoting Sunphilips23 (Thread starter):
How could airbus say A350 is wider and more comfortable at their web site??

ask Leahy

 checkmark 
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DAYflyer
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
It is spun, naturally

As are ALL of the statements regarding the A-350 lately. While I am sure it is a fine aircraft, or will be a fine aircraft when in production, all of the marketing BS by Leahy is getting a little old.  yawn 
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 42):
As are ALL of the statements regarding the A-350 lately. While I am sure it is a fine aircraft, or will be a fine aircraft when in production, all of the marketing BS by Leahy is getting a little old.

And Boeing is a certified BS-free zone?  sarcastic 
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zvezda
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:58 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 43):

And Boeing is a certified BS-free zone?

Of course not. Boeing produce their share of BS. The embarrassing thing about Airbus is that they produce more than their share of BS. Does that make Boeing innocent? No. Boeing only appear innocent when compared with Airbus. It's an illusion.
 
Aither
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:20 am

Airbus BS is not match compared to Boeing BS.

There are so many examples of really big Boeing BS like the Sonic Cruiser, unconsistent driven product forecasts, 787 % of economics they never tell to which a/c they compare, etc.
Never trust the obvious
 
A360
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 12):
cabin width really only makes a difference if you compare it with the abreast seating configuration.

The A380 is wider than the 747, but will have 3-5-3 seating on the lower deck, and for the guy seating in the center row, let me tell you, he'll be REAL glad he is flying an aircraft that is wider than the 747...

Your wrong my friend. The regular seat config in the 380 lower deck will be 3-4-3, just like on the 747's.
So yes, the seats/aisles will be wider. (not bashing the 747 here, just correcting a fact).

Also, the 787 in 2-4-2 will be wider than the 350 in 2-4-2.

As for how noticeable?? Don't know... we'il just have to wais and see...

But as posted above, a 5 inch diference on a single aisle 737/320 (3-3 config +1.81 cm per seat/aisle(6 seats+1 aisle)) is much more noticiable than on a wide body 787/350(2-4-2 config +1.27 per seat/aisle(8 seats+2aisles)).  Wink
 
A342
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RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 35):
If the difference is hardly noticeable, then why do all you Airbus fans constantly talk about how much wider the A320 vs. 737NG?

Well, I don´t. I´ve flown them both and couldn´t notice the difference in cabin or seat width.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
A360
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:41 pm

RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 47):
Well, I don´t. I´ve flown them both and couldn´t notice the difference in cabin or seat width.

Neither do I... and I don't see people in this forum constantly refering to that!
But it would probably be diferent if it was the B320 and A737.... If that was the case, we would probably have at least a weakly topic about how much more confortable the B320 was.  duck 
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: A350 Wider And More Comfortable?

Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 45):
There are so many examples of really big Boeing BS like the Sonic Cruiser

- explanations?

Quoting Aither (Reply 45):
unconsistent driven product forecasts,

- what is it?

Quoting Aither (Reply 45):
787 % of economics they never tell to which a/c they compare

- they do tell.

The biggest BS on both sides was, with no close contender, "a Chinese copy - all we need to do is to put those engines on 330 - OK, we'll slightly modify 330 - oops, we'll build a new plane". All the other things are merely annoying (like B cry about IB not ordering 777) or ridiculous (like A claiming 330/340 has more headroom than 777)...

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