wedgetail737
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Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:15 pm

Hello, everyone!

Anyone care to forecast what Alaska's/Horizon's next new city might be in the near future? Does Horizon intend on obtaining more aircraft in the near future?
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:58 pm

I'm still waiting for the Modesto start-up.

I'm not going to speculate on anything. I would like to see Anchorage have similar nonstops that SEA has (i.e. BOS, EWR, DFW), but since Alaska code shares with virtually everyone, I don't think that will happen. Does anybody know why they discontinued ANC-Bay Area service?

[Edited 2005-10-12 17:05:10]
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:04 am

I personally would love to see SFO-GEG.

It would also be cool to have them resume services to the Russian Far East but that is unlikely.
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
It would also be cool to have them resume services to the Russian Far East but that is unlikely.

Yes, it would. The 1x weekly Mavial Magadan flight is subsidized by the local or regional Magadanian government, so it makes it pretty hard to compete with.
 
as739x
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:14 am

Loisencroah: What planes to we have that can to ANC-BOS/EWR? The 73G can not make that trip with a sizable load. Don't look for to many more cities from ANC for now. As you can see when AS reduced is schedule to help ontime performance, they were the first routes to go. Next ANC route will probably be the restart of seasonal ANC-SFO. Modesto is in heavy consideration for QX right now. Though, QX is very very tight on planes right now. QX is having issues with mods to the Q400 engine's and some other issues I have got from and inside sourse.

BigGSFO: We think it would work w/ a CR7, but QX doesn't have the planes to do this. That markets doesn't call for anything bigger then that, hence the fact EAEX doesn't even serve SFO-GEG.

Alaska will be starapped for a plane till next year so I wouln't look for much, if anything. Once the 6 or 10, can't remember,738's are online next year, maybe something. Any order from QX will be for Q400.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 4):
What planes to we have that can to ANC-BOS/EWR? The 73G can not make that trip with a sizable load.

True. Forgive me, I have a bad cold/sinus infection. I'm living in fantasyland right now.
 
MFEFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:40 am

SEA-MFE-SEA
or
SEA-DFW-MFE-DFW-SEA  Wink


Sure would be nice!
Valley Approach.....
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting MFEFlyer (Reply 6):
SEA-MFE-SEA

Maybe in a Q400...and via BOI-SLC-ABQ-SAT. That'll be a long day!  biggrin 

However SEA-AUS seems it could work given the tech market between the two cities.
 
as739x
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:22 am

BigGSFO: I can't say that SEA-AUS is out of the realm. Possible a new MD80 service. But just like any other place, just no damn planes!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
commavia
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:29 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 8):
I can't say that SEA-AUS is out of the realm. Possible a new MD80 service. But just like any other place, just no damn planes!

I'd definitely say it's "out of the realm." Both are phenomenal cities (I live in Austin) but I must say, there is nowhere near enough traffic in this market to justify a nonstop flight. Alaska is much better off by just routing all SEA-AUS (and, for that matter, Pacific Northwest-AUS) traffic over DFW on AA.
 
as739x
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:43 am

Very true, but its on the list of cities being looked at. I know that!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Lono
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:26 am

I think AS would do well in Texas... so how about IAH/SAT/AUS..along with their DFW service....???

IAH- Tech Companies / Hospitals / Oil Companies
SAT- Military
AUS- Government/ Tech / Schools

Would be great feed from the state of Alaska..... Many who live in Alaska have ties to Texas...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
COERJ145
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:28 am

BOS-PDX should be added 1X daily along with a 3rd SEA r/t.
 
UALAX
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:06 am

as739x:

how is as doing lax-mex and lax-loreto? When new planes start coming in, might we see more Lat Am service? Would love to see LAX-Oaxaca!

UALAX
 
as739x
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:51 am

UALAX: LAX-MEX is doing so, so, but its the low season. Actually tommorows flight is book pretty well. About 85% full. Loreto I honestly could answer. I just have not followed it. Message EA CO AS, he should have more info then I do. I will be able to tell you in a few weeks how LAX is doing after I am tranfered there. I have hear Oaxaca is being looked into, but nothing new in the lat 9 months.

I hope to see more Latin America. Some of us are a little fishy on the amount of agents being hired at LAX. Maybe something is up are sleeve, I just don't know.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
QXFLYINGCOUG
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:39 am

I know this is a long shot, but at EAT we currently only have 4 flights a day coming from SEA on QX and they are usually full if not over booked. The other day my mom came in and said they had over booked the flight by 10 seats! They're only 35 seats on the plane how could they do that? I would like to see QX either start a flight from GEG or PDX to EAT or maybe it's time that EAT-SEA could support the Q400. The Wenatchee Valley is growing pretty rapidly and I for one would rather fly to SEA or GEG now that the price of gas makes it about the same as paying the $150 airfare.
--GO COUGS--
 
stirling
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Loisencroach (Reply 1):
I'm still waiting for the Modesto start-up.

There is a meeting next Wednesday up in Seattle between the City of Modesto and Horizon.

Y'all keep you're fingers crossed.

Right now, there's a 45/65 chance of it happening...not the best odds mind you; but nothing that cannot be overcome...Just means we have to work a little bit harder.
Delete this User
 
IslipWN
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:01 am

Hmmm, maybe they will start service to ISP!!


Joe
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
Loreto I honestly could answer. I just have not followed it.

The LTO bookings have been fairly strong considering it's a new destination that isn't as popular yet as other established ones, not to mention that this time of year is historically the low season.

The fares however are still VERY low to LTO - far less expensive than SJD or other Mexican Riviera resorts.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
Some of us are a little fishy on the amount of agents being hired at LAX. Maybe something is up are sleeve, I just don't know.

Odd. Then again, LAX has always been a revolving-door from a staffing perspective. Very few senior agents there.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
Very few senior agents there.

Morale problems?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:21 am

Does AS run any special charters from Kodiak to Seatte, bypassing Anchorage? Western Airlines used to have scheduled runs between ADQ and SEA back in the '70's.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
there's a 45/65 chance of it happening

Isn't that a 110%???  confused 
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 19):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
Very few senior agents there.

Morale problems?

No, just that the LAX station is a demanding one and costs of living there are much higher than most stations in the AS system. Consequently, it's hard to attract and retain people.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:44 am

If Horizon doesn't take Modesto - Los Angeles, maybe Scenic will start N. Las Vegas. Modesto was awarded an SCASD grant this year, weren't they? If so, did it specify LAX service?

[Edited 2005-10-12 22:46:16]
 
Lono
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting Loisencroach (Reply 20):
Western Airlines used to have scheduled runs between ADQ and SEA back in the '70's.

Wien Air Alaska used to fly this in the 80's...... flight was oversold every day
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
HPRamper
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:53 am

Aren't there some markets in Washington and Oregon states that could support new Horizon service? I hear Horizon used to serve Astoria, could that succeed now, maybe even with a 1 or 2x daily Dash-8?

Others: Centralia-Chehalis - I know there's plenty of people that live around here, I always wondered why they didn't have service.
Aberdeen-Hoquiam - Same as Centralia/Chehalis, but even further away from any other commercial air service
 
loisencroach
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
Others: Centralia-Chehalis - I know there's plenty of people that live around here, I always wondered why they didn't have service.
Aberdeen-Hoquiam - Same as Centralia/Chehalis, but even further away from any other commercial air service

I didn't research to see what airfield capabilities these communities have, but in terms of population, Grays Harbor county and Lewis County each have populations of only 70,000. Given that they are less than two hours to SEA via four lane arterial access, it would be a tough sell.
 
darrell
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:25 am

What about the possibility of Horizon flying into Hillsboro (HIO)? The Hillsboro airport is large enough to handle it and Hillsboro is the center of Oregon's tech industry. Maybe a couple flights a day to SEA? Something to ponder anyway.
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
DCrawley
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 11):
Many who live in Alaska have ties to Texas...

Good ol' oil!

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
Others: Centralia-Chehalis - I know there's plenty of people that live around here, I always wondered why they didn't have service.

I would have serious doubts about this one. Centralia isn't a very well-off area (I can tell you this because I own a 30-unit mobile home park down there  Wink ) and I doubt that many people would want to leave or enter Centralia. But, that is just my opinion.

-d
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
stirling
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 21):
Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
there's a 45/65 chance of it happening

Isn't that a 110%???

Ooops, Sorry!
I was thinking about something else that was "45", and typing at the same time....
It should be; 35/65....
Delete this User
 
MDW22L31C
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:36 am

How about more Mainline out of PDX. The RJ are getting old
 
Leneld
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:00 am

Don't every ask about Alaska and PDX....Your going to get slaughtered with criticism......
 
RobertS975
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
The LTO bookings have been fairly strong considering it's a new destination that isn't as popular yet as other established ones, not to mention that this time of year is historically the low season.

The fares however are still VERY low to LTO - far less expensive than SJD or other Mexican Riviera resorts.

LTO service is subsidized by Fonatur, the development agency that has overall charge of developing the resort area.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:16 am

As Alaska is facing an aircraft shortage, I would not expect to see anything earth-shattering beyond incremental additions and increased Horizon flying.

However, once AS received more aircraft, I hope they take on the role of ¨picking up the pieces¨ following what I believe will be a significant retreat by American Airlines from the West Coast. In the face of rising competition from jetBlue and the perennial threat posed by Southwest, I believe AA will shift resources away from LAX and other airports (they have already reduced operations dramatically at SJC and SEA) in favor of strengthening their hubs. ¨Ceding¨ routes to Alaska Airlines, an airline that has proven itself in terms of quality and its ability to compete with the LCCs, is a way to reduce flying in the West while not bleeding too much market share.

It is my personal hope that AS will take over routes such as SAN-BOS when American leaves them. We´ve seen it already on SEA-NYC, SEA-BOS, SEA-MIA, and arguably SEA-ORD.

Aside from transcon flying, however, I strongly believe that Horizon will pick up the LAX feeder operation if (when, in my opinion) AA decides to shut down the Eagle operation. Such a move will solidify AS´ position as one of dominant carriers at LAX while allowing the major carriers to keep market share there as they have in cooperation with American Eagle.

Aaron G.
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:25 am

Quoting Leneld (Reply 31):
Don't every ask about Alaska and PDX....Your going to get slaughtered with criticism......

With all due respect, the only people who get criticized for bringing up PDX are those who whine, "When will PDX get more nonstop flights from AS?" ad nauseam.



Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 32):
LTO service is subsidized by Fonatur, the development agency that has overall charge of developing the resort area.

True, but AS can and does still attempt to make money on the flight, regardless of Fonatur's assistance. If they merely relied on the Fonatur subsidy, AS would only charge one dirt-cheap fare and not spread the inventory over various price points/inventory buckets.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ouboy79
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:04 am

Would like to see them in OKC...for more than the weekly paint job or mx check up at AAR.  Smile
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:28 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
The LTO bookings have been fairly strong considering it's a new destination that isn't as popular yet as other established ones, not to mention that this time of year is historically the low season.

The fares however are still VERY low to LTO - far less expensive than SJD or other Mexican Riviera resorts.

Our flights to LTO are guaranteed by the Loreto Bay resort so we are making money on LTO. It most likely would not be a money maker otherwise, however. I always thought this would be a good market for QX from LAX.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:29 am

Other possible flight combos:

SEA-YYZ (Why should Western Canada get all the fun?)
SEA-STL (Why not? There might be one or two open gates at Lambert)
SEA-XNA (Starbucks to Walmart link so the two Dr. Evils can continue their world domination plans)
SEA-PHL (Emerald City to Brotherly Love)
PDX-NYC (Aw come on. Give jetBlue a little competition)
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 24):
Wien Air Alaska used to fly this in the 80's...... flight was oversold every day

When? I dont recall that, but I do recall Western flying it.
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 36):
Our flights to LTO are guaranteed by the Loreto Bay resort so we are making money on LTO.

I thought it was Fonatur as a whole - not just the Loreto Bay resort - that was backing our flights financially?

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 36):
It most likely would not be a money maker otherwise, however.

True - but ithen again t's not supposed to be a money-maker at the current fare levels. These ultra-low fares to LTO are designed to stimulate traffic and ultimately generate repeat business to LTO in the months and years to come - paying much higher prices at that time.  bigthumbsup 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
stirling
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 37):
SEA-XNA (Starbucks to Walmart link so the two Dr. Evils can continue their world domination plans)

Add "Walmart Jr." to that; Costco, as they too are based in the Emerald City.
Delete this User
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 39):
I thought it was Fonatur as a whole - not just the Loreto Bay resort - that was backing our flights financially?

It could very well be Fonatur that the checks come from, I just know we are hauling people down to the Loreto Bay Resort in particular. Fonatur covers this resort in Loreto and resorts in Los Cabos, Cancun, Ixtapa and Huatulco (lets go there!!!).

Hey, good to see you here, btw.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 39):
True - but ithen again t's not supposed to be a money-maker at the current fare levels. These ultra-low fares to LTO are designed to stimulate traffic and ultimately generate repeat business to LTO in the months and years to come - paying much higher prices at that time

True enough....
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 41):
Huatulco (lets go there!!!).

Here, here!  bigthumbsup  bigthumbsup  bigthumbsup  bigthumbsup 

My hopes are for additional CUN lift and/or a CZM tag added.  Smile

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 41):
Hey, good to see you here, btw.

Likewise! Glad to see you've become a regular contributor here!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:59 am

I think a 3 or 4 times a week nonstop from LAX to CZM could be a moneymaker in the winter and then do a tag during the summer. The market for CZM is more affluent than the market for CUN. There's more money to be had there. Delta is going to do it and we should jump in there before the second slot is snatched up by Frontier or the likes.
 
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:09 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 43):
The market for CZM is more affluent than the market for CUN. There's more money to be had there.

Agreed 100% CZM needs to be Alaska country - it's a market that has no need to fill the plane with low-yield bulk/wholesale fares like we do with CUN.

CZM can be a moneymaker from LAX with LFs even in the mid 60s if we price it right.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JetCity61
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:46 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 38):
Quoting Lono (Reply 24):
Wien Air Alaska used to fly this in the 80's...... flight was oversold every day

When? I dont recall that, but I do recall Western flying it.

Likewise ASFlyer....
As a regular on the SEA-ANC runs since the early 70's I don't think SEA-Kodiak service ever existed on Wien - perhaps for some summer charter runs occassionally maybe.

Speaking of Wien...Airliners Magazine did a great feature on them in the July/Aug 05 issue. Scheduled service from ANC to SEA (and beyond) started in 79 and ended in 84 when Wien filed for Chapter 11. By the way, I do miss the days of NW 747s and WA DC10s serving SEA-ANC (and of course Alaska's Golden Nugget jets!). My most unique flight on this route was the short-lived AirCal 737-Combi service in the late 80s (just prior to AA absorbing them)..all-coach cabin including an upgraded meal service with white linen tray table cloths.

Now for future Alaska/Horizon service: I think SEA-TPA would be a success, perhaps combine with MIA in the off-season.

Cheers from Seattle!
Nobody knows Alaska like Alaska knows Alaska

[Edited 2005-10-13 04:49:12]
 
rwsea
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:48 am

Before a few months ago, I would have thought SEA-MSY would be a great link. Hopefully soon that will be a viable option again.

Obviously AS has no aircraft to spare right now, but I'd love to see the following when some of the new 738's start rolling in:

With the new 738's:
- Add SEA-PHL/IAH
- Upgrade DCA to 738
- Add MCO/BOS/EWR frequencies

Then, with the 73G's that were on the routes:
- bring back SFO-ANC
- add PDX-EWR/MCO
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:49 am

I remember Air Cal flying this. Morris Air and Reno Air used to fly SEA-ANC as well, though I don't believe either offered a service as nice as Air Cal's.
 
JetCity61
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:03 pm

More SEA-ANC: TWA and Delta. AS (with what must be 98% of the market share), CO and UA are the only nonstoppers today I believe. TWA's MD80 service originated in STL, later on they switched the intermediate stop to our friendly neighbor - PDX. Delta - a victim of the complete shut down of almost all of Western's non-SLC hub routes.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Alaska's/Horizon's Next Move?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:26 pm

I understand AS gets a lot of request for BNA. Although its a pain to re-check my luggage I fly this city pair several times each year because WN offers it as a non-stop. The flights are full in both directions. The flight continues on to FLL but the majority passengers disembark in Nashville.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.