Skymonster
Topic Author
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Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:51 am

Figures don't look good for the first month (August) in which bmi implemented their "new business model" with BOB service:

http://www.aea.be/dbnetgrid2//htmleditor/UploadFiles/Pr05-041.pdf

Pax: -10.2%, RPKs: -1.0%, ASKs: +3.3%, Loadfactor: -3.1%

Only CY and JU did worse! Time for a rethink Numpty-Nigel?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Gofly
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:57 am

Mr Walsh must be laughing all the way to the bank.......

-Gofly  Smile
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:59 am

Maybe Orion's Grandparents were right..............
Laymans View Of BMI (by Orion737 Oct 4 2005 in Civil Aviation)

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
mhodgson
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:23 am

We told them so...

Looks bad for BD - and those are August figures! Peak summer travel period!

BA's PAX only went down 3% despite the general chaos at LHR - BD should in theory have won plenty of business as a result.
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
col
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:28 am

Is anyone really surprised?
 
Gofly
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting Col (Reply 4):
Is anyone really surprised?

The BD execs? Big grin

-Gofly  Smile
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
Skymonster
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:33 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 3):
BA's PAX only went down 3% despite the general chaos at LHR - BD should in theory have won plenty of business as a result.

BD officially said that they'd put on extra flights because of the BA / GG strikes. I guess that accounts for the capacity increase. Now, where did the additional passengers go? Or did the additional passengers come, but their base passengers were even further down than the headline number suggests?

ANdy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:48 pm

It dosent come as a suprise. BD have ailieneated many of their loyal and regular passengers with their new service concept. The BOB system was poorly organised and hastily introduced with little publicity which not only resulted in cabin crew having insufficient time on board short sectors to deliver the BOB service to each passenger but also having to apologise to customers, the vast majority unaware that they were now travelling on an airline that would be delivering a no-frills service.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 7):
It dosent come as a suprise. BD have ailieneated many of their loyal and regular passengers with their new service concept. The BOB system was poorly organised and hastily introduced with little publicity which not only resulted in cabin crew having insufficient time on board short sectors to deliver the BOB service to each passenger but also having to apologise to customers, the vast majority unaware that they were now travelling on an airline that would be delivering a no-frills service.

Oh god. Try a new argument Orion.  yawn 

Every other LCC manages to compete with a BOB concept. So this is a lame excuse. BMI staff haven't adapted because they didn't want too. There was an unofficial go slow on August 1st to demonstrate the unpopularity of the decision.

I acknowledge it was poorly advertised. Passengers were simply not told of the change. But the trade was, albeit not far in advance of the launch.

In my opinion, the reason it isnt working at BMI is because there is no single service standard. Morale is at an all time low. Ask STARCREW. Without the core support of the staff, the whole business is doomed.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:17 pm

I think primarilly when people fly BMI they feel they are flying a full service airline and not an LCC, they are not flying BMIbaby and they dont expect the BOB concept which they have come to except as part and parcel of flying an LCC.

BMI tries to maintain that it is not an LCC but yet delivers an LCC service. Passengers are confused, because BMI themselves are confused!
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:22 pm

Yawn !!!! Loving this life of leisure......

serves em right for not serving a good cuppa i say. and what happened to the hot towels? wouldn't have happend in the good old days back in the 80s. AND i don't think much of their scruffy uniforms either......


mmmm back to bed....  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:26 pm

You keep making these sarcastic comments about my living a life of leisure and not working but you and a few others seem to find plenty of time in the working day to come on here and indulge in the petty squabbles.

I guess your 'consulting' skills are not as much in demand these days. oh well, you can always keep me compnay on Airliners along with that other workaholic who seems to find plenty of time (all day, every day almost) to play on Airliners instead of arranging complex tailor made itinearies for all his prized pinstriped business clientele 

[Edited 2005-10-13 15:30:18]
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 11):
guess your 'consulting' skills are not as much in demand these days.

on the contrary - 3 and a half weeks leave before starting the flash new job. making the most of it relaxing. Seeing they're giving me a large "golden hello" pay check I suspect i am in demand  Wink

But then i earned this time off mate..... its paid leave, something you wouldn't know about  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 11):
you can always keep me compnay on Airliners along with that other workaholic who seems to find plenty of time (all day, every day almost) to play on Airliners instead of arranging complex tailor made itinearies for all his prized pinstriped business clientele

Do you mean me? As I once tried to make you understand, I have this big black box in front of me called a PC. On it I can do many many different things. This, combined with my organisational and time management skills allows me to look after my clients travel needs whilst intermittently posting in here.

While I may not yet have earned the golden hello's that Cornish can rightly command, I hope that one day, by applying myself in my work and by listening to the wisdom and knowledge of others around me, that I too will be equally as successful.

In the meantime, I work to make ends meet (two jobs actually and 60 hours per week!) and I don't sponge off anyone. Be it state or family. Till you do the same, keep your illinformed and pathetic little comments to yourself. Unless Granny is interested.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Skymonster
Topic Author
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 8):
In my opinion, the reason it isnt working at BMI is because there is no single service standard

I usually agree with your thoughts, but on this occasion I don't.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 7):
BD have ailieneated many of their loyal and regular passengers with their new service concept.

Yes.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 8):
Every other LCC manages to compete with a BOB concept. So this is a lame excuse.

But bmi isn't a low "cost" carrier - they're not even a low fare carrier. When you're charging over £200 for a UK domestic return, it is reasonable for the customer to expect something in return (i.e. food, drink). Whilst some of bmi's headline fares may indeed be cheap, they're still charging a lot for walk up or short notice bookings. What they're very successfully doing is driving their premium passengers to BA (if they want to retain premium benefits), or to FR or U2 if they're prepared to go for the cheap-with-paid-extras as these two carriers are even now often cheaper than BD.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:50 pm

That is precisley my point Andy. BMI is not classing itself as an LCC and targeting the same market as EZY and FR, yet they are delivering a very similar product. What exactly is now to differentiate BDs BOB from EZYs on board service or that of any other LCC?
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 14):
But bmi isn't a low "cost" carrier

I think we can all assume that while they may not yet have admitted it, that is essentially what they are becoming.

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 14):
When you're charging over £200 for a UK domestic return, it is reasonable for the customer to expect something in return (i.e. food, drink)

Well if you make it as black and white as that, then no. But if you also consider that fares reduced when the new modular concept took effect, then I don't see where one can complain.

Example. 31st July,(day before BOB took effect) the MAN-LHR fare was around £309.00. Today that fare is £248.00 or £272.00 depending on one or two different elements. Either way, you would not have been served a meal worth £37.00 on that BMI flight. By having to purchase on board, BMI are eliminating that cost, where they would have had to cater for everyone. Now they cater for the majority but with less perishable items.

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 14):
What they're very successfully doing is driving their premium passengers to BA

Agree totally. Never ever disputed that. But the Premium passengers were apparently becoming fewer and fewer on the short haul network. This is reinforced by other carriers removing their C class products on short haul sectors. EI is a classic example. But EI have made this work. BD cannot. And there has to be another reason why.

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 14):
Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 8):
In my opinion, the reason it isnt working at BMI is because there is no single service standard

Hey thats what makes it interesting. No?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 15):
BMI is not classing itself as an LCC and targeting the same market as EZY and FR, yet they are delivering a very similar product.

I concede on this one for the moment. But they are moving in that direction, by introducing their BMIBaby 'Tiny' fares on their mainline flights.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Skymonster
Topic Author
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 16):
Example. 31st July,(day before BOB took effect) the MAN-LHR fare was around £309.00. Today that fare is £248.00 or £272.00 depending on one or two different elements. Either way, you would not have been served a meal worth £37.00 on that BMI flight. By having to purchase on board, BMI are eliminating that cost, where they would have had to cater for everyone. Now they cater for the majority but with less perishable items.

Maybe so, but lets be honest here - anyone paying £272 now wouldn't really have been phased by paying £37 more, because its mostly business passengers who's fares are expensed.

In any case, using tomorrow as an example (real-world figures from each carrier's website)... Fundamental problem BD have is that faced with paying £294.50 on BD for a LHR-MAN-LHR tomorrow, or £294.50 on BA for LHR-MAN-LHR tomorrow (similarly timed flights, early out, mid-evening back - and yes, they do both price out the same with taxes added on), then most passengers are going to take the option that has the on-board included - wouldn't you? How can BD justify charging EXACTLY the same as BA, when BD don't offer anything extra?

I say what I said in the past - I think very few people who pay next to nothing each way have a problem with BOB, but those who are paying a lot more than that (whether expensed or out of their own pocket) do, and where there's a choice they'll go for the added benefits.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:26 am

They will, and they are as BMI are finding out to their cost! I have no sympathy, it was a ridiculous move fro them to try and offer a quasi no-frills product while maintain the fare structure and expensive route network of a full service business airline.
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:33 am

Its no surprise that the NBM hasn't worked. We have managed to alienate nearly everyone. For one thing the fares have not become "tiny" but the service has. Its been interesting to watch over the months as the passenger mix has changed. Aug I would get my PBI (passeneger boarding info) and see lots of DCG / Star Gold comments etc.... These slowly started to disappear even on the routes where we had business class. No surprise why stay with one airline when you can't get your points or upgrades? Now you don't see that many businessmen but you do see a lot more leisure travelers who are often flying from LHR for the first time and think they have "upgraded from Ryanair to us" .

Frequency has always been a problem ,now this winter we start (well i won't because I'll be on the beach in Antigua with BA) Lyon 3 times a week BUT the PMI always a good route gets pulled to 4 times a week to make way for it!!! MADNESS.

bmi want to be a low cost but are trapped by LHR and by having Multiple service standards and products... We are neither fish nor fowl.

Longhaul has a load of problems as well with wrongly configured aircraft and a bad business seat.

Most of the experienced crew have left or are going leaving a load of 18 yr olds (some very good but majority too young and childish) running around trying to complete the service. One crew manager was quoted as saying "we don't want experienced crew as they cost too much".There was a general go slow on Aug 1 st and this has continued mainly because we were promised more money as we were now operating with min crew, cleaning the aircraft etc... and none materialised. A final ballot on strike action is just being finished and there will without a doubt be a strike.

bmi has lost all direction. I'm glad I'm nearly out (7 days and counting after 14 years)
there is only ONEWORLD
 
Gofly
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 19):
bmi has lost all direction. I'm glad I'm nearly out (7 days and counting after 14 years)

I'm sorry to hear that STARCREW, it must be sad to see an airline you've remained loyal to for all those years lose the plot.  Smile

If you don't mind me asking, where are you going to?  Smile

-Gofly
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:54 am

British Airways Longhaul Gatwick - the beach fleet!  rotfl 
there is only ONEWORLD
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 17):
Maybe so, but lets be honest here - anyone paying £272 now wouldn't really have been phased by paying £37 more, because its mostly business passengers who's fares are expensed.



Quoting Skymonster (Reply 17):
How can BD justify charging EXACTLY the same as BA, when BD don't offer anything extra?

Yeah fair enough I can't argue that. And don't get me wrong I'm not defending any action BMI have taken - just trying to put a balanced perspective. (Well as balanced as I can manage!)

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Gofly
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 21):
British Airways Longhaul Gatwick - the beach fleet!

I wish you all the best. Even the BD crews are leaving to fly BA Big grin

-Gofly  Smile
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
Skymonster
Topic Author
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:56 am

Starcrew,

I wish you well with BA - shame it had to come to this. I worked at Donington Hall for nine years (been gone nine now though) and it really breaks my heart to see where BMI is going. I know its not the crew's faults - BD's crews were the best, and now all that hard work is being wrecked by the Hall. Those of us who criticise where BD is going do so not out of malice, but because we're genuinely saddened to see the decline.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:39 am

Last year

as a business traveller I flew 150k miles.

Of this 75K was on Star Carriers.
Of This 20K was BMI (inc some trips where I went out of my way to fly BMI).

This year..

I have flown 100k to date.

52K on Star
1.5K on BMI where I go out of my way not to fly BMI.


Ive voted with my feet, and my wallet has followed
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:07 pm

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 24):
Those of us who criticise where BD is going do so not out of malice, but because we're genuinely saddened to see the decline

thanks Andy,

I feel exactly the same as all of you on here. It was great working for British Midland, Diamond Service, old DC9's etc... bmi under James Hogan was good aswell, new look, new airbus aircraft,new routes, high frequencies, good inflight service.

Then it started going horribly wrong.  cry 
there is only ONEWORLD
 
Beany
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RE: Bmi - New Business Model Not Working?

Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:00 pm

I don't know about their business model, but their website definitely wasn't working today.

It was dishing out free flights to ORD for hours earlier. I managed to pick up two. Its also booked into Premium Economy  Smile