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Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:44 pm

Moved by the very rare announcement of a new order for PW engines (today's announcement by Eurofly that they are leasing two more A330s), I was browsing the PW website and found this...

PW4000 100-inch fan engines have accumulated more than three million hours of revenue service and are the leading engine on the A330. The engine is built to provide maximum value and its success is reflected by its continued dominance in the A330 market.

Hmmm.

PW have sold 163 A330s to airlines and RR 218. (GE have sold 131.)
PW have delivered 123 A330s and RR 151. (GE have delivered 100.)

I struggle to remember the last new customer PW signed for the A330 but it was surely several years ago. During that time, both GE and RR have chalked up several new customers each.

Interesting spin to suggest that this is "market dominance" but if it makes them feel better... It's also quite telling that the most recent press release they can find to put on the PW4000-100 page is from June 2002.

None of this matters much but the bottom line is that PW are claiming something on their website that isn't just marketing spin, it's simply not true!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:50 pm

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
None of this matters much

Quite right....puffery, nothing more. Seems to me there's a couple of airframe manufacturers who indulge in a little bit of the blarney from time to time don't they? Not to mention the teevee commercial running here in the states with a woodchuck and a buncha animals cheering for GE's recent conversion to "green" technology. You saw through it....



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scbriml
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:56 pm

By your figures there's only 28 engines difference in the "in service" numbers. That represents, at best, 14 planes. It is entirely possible that the PW powered A330s have accumulated more flying hours than the RR ones. This could easily be true if more of the PW planes were flying earlier (if you see what I mean).

If they have the most flying hours, they can probably claim to be the "lead engine". For the time being anyway.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.  wink 
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:15 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2):
By your figures there's only 28 engines difference in the "in service" numbers. That represents, at best, 14 planes. It is entirely possible that the PW powered A330s have accumulated more flying hours than the RR ones. This could easily be true if more of the PW planes were flying earlier (if you see what I mean).

Absolutely and PW did have a good lead over RR in the early days. So, yes, I have no trouble accepting that they've accumulated more hours than the Trent 700 so far. But "...continued dominance in the A330 market."??? None of the three engine manufacturers can honestly claim "dominance" but RR have an appreciable lead in both orders and deliveries and have picked up many new customers in recent years whereas PW haven't really picked up any. It is stretching a point way beyond credibility for PW to pretend that they "dominate" the A330 market. At best they're whistling in the dark while their market share is in freefall.
 
Ivo
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:40 pm

The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

Ivo
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:20 pm

There are still 3 PW powered A330s stored in CGN. I don't know why exactly, but one thing is for sure: If there was demand, they would fly!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:03 pm

Keep in mind that aircraft sold, does not neccasarily mean number of engines sold. Extra engines are always purchased to keep as spares, cover planned overhauls and such. In addition there are a few engine pools in the industry including a large one run by MTU covering the PW4000 engine for A330 operators.

Their claim could very well be true that PW as sold more PW engines for the A330 program then its competitors.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
gigneil
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:21 pm

I'm sure they've just been in no rush to change their website since losing ground.

I don't really get all the insistence that what these major faceless corporations put out in marketing is some sort of gospel.

N
 
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Their claim could very well be true that PW as sold more PW engines for the A330 program then its competitors.

Yes, sure. Airlines buy spares as well as engines on the wing. But I presume that RR and GE operators buy more or less as many spares spares as PW operators. Then again, maybe not. So if RR have delivered 30-odd planes more than PW (i.e. 60 engines) but PW have sold more engines because of all the spares airlines need then it doesn't say much for their reliability!!!

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
I don't really get all the insistence that what these major faceless corporations put out in marketing is some sort of gospel.

No, but I think we are entitled to expect them not to put out plain untruths - or even to leave them on their website three years after they ceased to be true! If Airbus claimed that more A330s had been sold than 777s would we just shrug and put it down to corporate spin? If RR claimed that the RB211 was the most popular engine on the 767 would we smile and gently chide RR for bending the truth? I can't see by any stretch of the imagination how PW can claim to "continue" to "dominate" the A330 programme. At worst, it's a flat lie. At best, since it clearly isn't true, it calls into question every other assertion on their website. Either way, it doesn't reflect well on them. That's all.
 
trex8
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X

TG, MH were very early A333 operators and use Pratt, KE was also quite early too.
 
ceo@afg
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:04 am

What's the big advantages/disadvantages between the three engines on offer for the A330?

From what I can tell from the manufacturers websites, Rolls Royce has the most powerful engine option, and Pratt & Whitney the least powerful engine option.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
 
Ivo
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:21 am

TREK8,

Those aircraft are the only PW ones still to be delivered at the moment.

Ivo
 
Lemurs
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:35 am

So here's the question...it looks like the last news item on the page for the PW4000-100 is from 2002. Who was the leader on the A330 family at that time? It's very easy for me to believe they haven't gone and updated this page since then. Chances are the webmaster just doesn't care, either. They'd need to get the PR folks to write up something new...it's a hassle for everyone, if anyone even bothered to look.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

NW's A330's are some of the nicest looking planes in the world... yes 


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A330323X
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

US Airways (though certainly not PW's biggest fan) has 10 PW-powered A330-200s on order for delivery in 2009-10.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
trex8
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RE: Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting Ivo (Reply 11):
Those aircraft are the only PW ones still to be delivered at the moment

sorry, should have read the post more closely!

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