sq212
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Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:03 pm

Another good news for Boeing. With this order, Boeing has 293 commitments for 787 from 24 customers versus 143 commitments for A350 from 10 customers.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...4DFC393C3C%7D&dist=rss&siteid=mktw

Cheers.

[Edited 2005-10-17 08:17:02]
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting Sq212 (Thread starter):
The unidentifed order posted by Boeing last week could be this order.

According to the article, it is the same

ILFC completed the deal late in the past week but requested Boeing post the orders on its Web site as "unidentified" until later, The Journal said, citing unnamed people familiar with the situation. ILFC has a fleet of more than 700 jetliners valued at more than $36 billion, The Journal said.
Where did everybody go?
 
dagell
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:15 pm

great news for the dreamliner!!!
 
sq212
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 1):
According to the article, it is the same

Correction made. Many thanks.

Cheers
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:36 pm

Now the question remains does ILFC have customers lined up to lease these planes?
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keta
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:04 pm

So this is the unidentified customer. Congrats to Boeing!

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Now the question remains does ILFC have customers lined up to lease these planes?

Let the speculation continue...  Silly
Where there's a will, there's a way
 
777ER
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:48 pm

its good ILFC have finally ordered the B787. Wonder who the leasing airlines are, hope its new B787 'customers'
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dl021
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Now the question remains does ILFC have customers lined up to lease these planes?

I'd say that ILFC has a handle on what their customers will want. They seem to have done pretty well up to now...  Wink

Seriously speaking, when Udvay-Hazy was interviewed by Flight International earlier this year (prior to Paris) he pointed out that he was actively marketing the airplane and Mullaly from Boeing was there saying he was a key partner for input on what airlines would want. U-H indicated that he saw the airplane as being a key component of his portfolio over the next 20 years.
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NYC777
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 7):
U-H indicated that he saw the airplane as being a key component of his portfolio over the next 20 years.

If true then I thinks it's a lock that ILFC will order significantly more 787 over time and these 20 are just the start. I bet they're taking mostly 787-8 and -9s.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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zeke
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:03 pm

I heard that these maybe Qatar Airways production slots that ILFC purchased, knew they were deciding on 80ish aircraft, thought the LOI were for A350/777's ?
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N328KF
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:12 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
If true then I thinks it's a lock that ILFC will order significantly more 787 over time and these 20 are just the start. I bet they're taking mostly 787-8 and -9s.

ILFC will also order A350s. Maybe not any time soon, but eventually...just like GECAS will order 787s. Leasing companies are like lawyers — they're whores.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
flyinghippo
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:14 pm

From WSJ:

In addition, the leasing company secured an undisclosed number of potentially lucrative early delivery positions, even though the airplane is largely sold out through 2010. The 787 is scheduled to enter service in mid-2008. The Airbus plane isn't expected to enter service until 2010.


I wonder how early is ILFC is their 787 slots... If they secured such early slots for the 787, it does look like they have a deal with some airlines already in place.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:03 am

Good news for the program!
Perhaps IFLC has taken the Air Canada slots?
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NYC777
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 12):
Perhaps IFLC has taken the Air Canada slots?

IMO I don't think so. I'm sure ILFC put down a refundable deposit to reserve early delivery spots ass they did indicate that they were planning to purchase the aircraft even before AC announced the order in April. But I am sure that AC early delivery slots are all gone with the cancellation.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:18 am

Am I the only one surprised it took this long for ILFC to get out a 787 order?

Does anyone know if GE has ordered any?

Since Boeing, for the leasing companies (and others interested in resale) forced GE and RR to use the same nacelle, interfaces, etc. so that engine swaps are a no brainer, I would have thought the leasing companies would have been early to this brunch. Cest la vie.

Does anyone know if the GEnX and Trent 1700 can share a nacelle on the A350? It would be trickier as the bleed points on a double and triple spool will not be quite be at the same locations, but it could be done.

And can I hope this doesn't become another 120+ post A vs. B? Sigh... no, I don't have that much hope.

Lightsaber
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PM
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 15):
You start our your post with "Am I the only one surprised it took this long for ILFC to get out a 787 order?" and then you end it with "And can I hope this doesn't become another 120+ post A vs. B? Sigh... no, I don't have that much hope."

Nice job trying to start another A vs B fight!

Where do you get that from?! How do you make out that it's an inflammatory suggestion that ILFC would be a natural customer for the 787? Of course they're buying the 787. No doubt they'll buy the A350 too. Don't see this infantile "A vs B" where it plainly isn't!
 
ultrapig
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:30 am

As a lawyer I'm not sure that youhave it right that we are :like whores". Most of the time we are accused of the it being the other way around- And one of my favorite lawyer jokes


What is the difference between a lawyer and a rooster "A rooster clucks defiant"
 
HS748
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Sq212 (Thread starter):
With this order, Boeing has 293 commitments for 787 from 24 customers versus 143 commitments for A350 from 10 customers.

So, looks like Airbus is doing better than Boeing - an average order of 14.3 aircraft for Airbus as opposed to 12.2 for Boeing!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:13 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
So, looks like Airbus is doing better than Boeing - an average order of 14.3 aircraft for Airbus as opposed to 12.2 for Boeing!

Interesting spin on the fact that Airbus has had mostly just a few large orders (the QR order in particular), as opposed to the diverse order base that Boeing has had.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Lemurs
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:13 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
So, looks like Airbus is doing better than Boeing - an average order of 14.3 aircraft for Airbus as opposed to 12.2 for Boeing!

See, it's obvious pot-stirring comments like this that contribute to how things get out of hand. You haven't contributated anything to the discussion, and that statement has almost zero meaning. Unless that was your intent...
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
JetMaster
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 15):
Nice job trying to start another A vs B fight!

What's your point exactly? Where did Lightsaber provoke "another war"? Paranoia must be something terrible...


Regards,
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DeltaWings
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:18 am

Anybody know, which versions these are?

Great news!
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 19):
Interesting spin on the fact that Airbus has had mostly just a few large orders (the QR order in particular), as opposed to the diverse order base that Boeing has had.

Spot on! Which means Boeing is actually doing much better as their risk is a lot lower. Having a more diverse customer base may not be as prestigious as some of these "whale customers", but it makes it much safer for Boeing. I personally wouldn't want to be around when reality hits home and the middle east airlines (EK, Qatar, Etihad, etc.) realize that you can't have so many monster widebody fleets so close together. There are going to be a lot of petro-dollars going down the drain at some point...

Steve
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HS748
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 19):
Interesting spin on the fact that Airbus has had mostly just a few large orders (the QR order in particular), as opposed to the diverse order base that Boeing has had.



Quoting Lemurs (Reply 20):
See, it's obvious pot-stirring comments like this that contribute to how things get out of hand. You haven't contributated anything to the discussion, and that statement has almost zero meaning. Unless that was your intent...

The exclamation mark at the end of my post should have indicated to those familiar with the English language that it was tongue in cheek - much needed with all the naval gazing that goes on in this forum. Chill out!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 24):
Quoting N328KF (Reply 19):
Interesting spin on the fact that Airbus has had mostly just a few large orders (the QR order in particular), as opposed to the diverse order base that Boeing has had.



Quoting Lemurs (Reply 20):
See, it's obvious pot-stirring comments like this that contribute to how things get out of hand. You haven't contributated anything to the discussion, and that statement has almost zero meaning. Unless that was your intent...

IN-COMMING!!  duck 
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N79969
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:58 am

This is a nice feather in the cap for the B787 program and an endorsement of the aircraft itself. If Boeing delivers on its promises, I think ILFC will be a source of follow-on orders.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Now the question remains does ILFC have customers lined up to lease these planes?

Hmmm... I smell Air India all over it...
...but it could be just me...  Wink
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Lemurs
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 24):
The exclamation mark at the end of my post should have indicated to those familiar with the English language that it was tongue in cheek - much needed with all the naval gazing that goes on in this forum. Chill out!

No, see that's the problem...the exclamation mark does not mean that in the English language. An exclamation mark is used for emphatic declaration, interjection, or command. That's why they have emoticons, to communicate intent that's not obvious based on content. Try these out next time you're going for tongue-in-cheek.

 silly  or  stirthepot 
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
airtran737
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:21 am

Could this be the coveted QF order that we have all been longing for? It would be really nice to see Dixon out there announcing the lease of 20 787's. Just my two cents.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:22 am

I'm hoping that AA will be leasing some of these planes.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
kaitak
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:43 am

I don't think it will be Qantas or Air India. I would think it would probably be smaller carriers, particularly those with existing aircraft leased from ILFC. ANZ and Aer Lingus might be possibilities. They could exchange these for the new aircraft, while ILFC finds a home for the older aircraft.

There are a lot of smaller airlines which could be interested in the aircraft. The 787 is becoming a very diverse model and consequently, very attractive to airlines. I would imagine - without knowing - that Boeing will give ILFC a lot of leeway to decide which models they want; it will really depend on the airlines; one airline may want the -3 and a few -8s; another, -8s and a few -9s and -10Xs. This information will actually be of great importance to Boeing, as it will demonstrate which models and combinations are of most interest to airlines. Also, given that it's still three years before the '87 enters service, airlines would still have plenty of time to evaluate their needs.
 
Glom
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 24):
The exclamation mark at the end of my post should have indicated to those familiar with the English language that it was tongue in cheek - much needed with all the naval gazing that goes on in this forum. Chill out!

Not really. That's what smileys are for. And you know as well as I that comments far more rabid are said in earnest.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 29):
Could this be the coveted QF order that we have all been longing for? It would be really nice to see Dixon out there announcing the lease of 20 787's.

Wouldn't it be nicer if QF ordered some of their own though?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 17):
What is the difference between a lawyer and a rooster "A rooster clucks defiant"

Only a lawyer would find that funny.  Wink

Here's a better one: "What's the difference between a catfish and lawyer? One is a bottom feeding scavenger, the other is a fish."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:25 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
Since Boeing, for the leasing companies (and others interested in resale) forced GE and RR to use the same nacelle, interfaces, etc. so that engine swaps are a no brainer, I would have thought the leasing companies would have been early to this brunch. Cest la vie.

This keeps coming up and is WRONG.

The interface is to cut Boeing's development costs and build costs down by having the same equipment in the airframe for both engines. It has NOTHING to do with some halfbrained notion of having GE one week and RR the next. It also cuts down development costs as only one prototype is needed to gain certification with engine types.

Anyone with a day's experience of spares costing will tell you that an engine swap is something not taken lightly, and swapping both motors is well into eight figures. You don't spend twenty million dollars on new motors just because you don't like the guy from GE who sells them.

Boeing wanted to be able to move their planes out of the line with a standard engine fitment rigout, and then hang a choice of engine onto it which only requires a software adjustment. Nothing to do with lease companies or pick-and-mix. Change the motor type and you invalidate the aircraft's certification as well, meaning the customer can have plenty of problems if they wanted an engine type swap.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
N79969
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
It has NOTHING to do with some halfbrained notion of having GE one week and RR the next.

This is too strong of a statement. Having a generic interface increases the marketability of the aircraft over its life. Similarly aged/operated RR-powered 767 and GE-powered versions will sell for different prices in the aftermarket.

If a RR operator wants to sell a 787 to a GE operator, engine type will not be an issue. The 787 could literally have the other guy's engine the very next week even if it is a different operator.

[Edited 2005-10-17 22:36:19]
 
Glom
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
Boeing wanted to be able to move their planes out of the line with a standard engine fitment rigout, and then hang a choice of engine onto it which only requires a software adjustment.

So there is an advantage then to this feature.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:23 am

Quoting Sq212 (Thread starter):
With this order, Boeing has 293 commitments for 787 from 24 customers versus 143 commitments for A350 from 10 customers.

I think you set the new record of the answers needed to start an off-topic A-B war : 0 answer. Come on!
When I doubt... go running!
 
art
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:11 am

Is this their first order? If so, what kept them so long? It's hardly as if airlines have been lukewarm in their reaction to the 787.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:14 am

It may be customers who want to "try the waters" of the 787 (either for financial reasons - save cash - or as a prelude to placing a larger order if they like what they see).

It is also possible some customers have a handful of older 767s/A300s/A330s that they want to phase out more slowly by adding new 787s on lease rather then place an order.
 
ETStar
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting Sq212 (Thread starter):


Another good news for Boeing. With this order, Boeing has 293 commitments for 787 from 24 customers versus 143 commitments for A350 from 10 customers.

Wow, did not know that Airbus also had this many! Add another 10 customers and it matches it!

A VP at Emirates said that unless Boeing comes up with a 787-10X, Airbus' product will pretty much eat it and its children. So we will see how this will turn out..
 
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N328KF
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting ETStar (Reply 39):
Wow, did not know that Airbus also had this many! Add another 10 customers and it matches it!

You make it sound so trivial.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Islandboy
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 39):
A VP at Emirates said that unless Boeing comes up with a 787-10X, Airbus' product will pretty much eat it and its children. So we will see how this will turn out..

Well wouldn't that be a refreshing turn of events  Wink Not everyone needs the capacity of the A350, hence why the B787 is still selling.
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
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Revelation
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting Sq212 (Thread starter):
Boeing has 293 commitments for 787 from 24 customers versus 143 commitments for A350 from 10 customers

Wow, A vs. B right out of the gate!

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
And can I hope this doesn't become another 120+ post A vs. B?

Um, no!

Quoting HS748 (Reply 17):
So, looks like Airbus is doing better than Boeing - an average order of 14.3 aircraft for Airbus as opposed to 12.2 for Boeing!

LOL! Boy, some people are so anxious to fight, they've lost their sense of humor.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 33):
The interface is to cut Boeing's development costs and build costs down by having the same equipment in the airframe for both engines. It has NOTHING to do with some halfbrained notion of having GE one week and RR the next.

Umm, Mr. White Hatter, who leases planes for one week?
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AirbusA6
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:57 pm

On the 767 the RR powered version is a bit of an orphan, so will have different resale values to, say the GE and PW powered versions.

On the 787 it seems reasonable at this stage to assume that both engines choices will sell in similarly large quantities, and thus is someone in 15 years times wants a RR powered bird, it'll be easier to hunt one down rather than convert a GE powered one...
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HanginOut
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
IMO I don't think so. I'm sure ILFC put down a refundable deposit to reserve early delivery spots ass they did indicate that they were planning to purchase the aircraft even before AC announced the order in April. But I am sure that AC early delivery slots are all gone with the cancellation.

My understanding is that AC lost the early 777 slots, but not the 787 slots as there is still lots of time to resurrect the deal, before Boeing even begins production.
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
7e72004
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:28 pm

How much more fuel savings will the 787 bring over the jets we have today? The same question goes for the A350...will there be a lot of savings?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
trex8
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RE: Ilfc Orders 20x Boeing 787

Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 33):
Boeing wanted to be able to move their planes out of the line with a standard engine fitment rigout, and then hang a choice of engine onto it which only requires a software adjustment. Nothing to do with lease companies or pick-and-mix. Change the motor type and you invalidate the aircraft's certification as well, meaning the customer can have plenty of problems if they wanted an engine type swap.

There was a post on yahoo orders group quoting some industry news source about how you actually will have to change the ENTIRE pylon to change the engine type and it was going to be way expensive and time consuming and no one was likely to want to do it. It was apparently a case of the marketing people getting ahead of the engineers. Either in the same article, or I read it somewhere else, a spokesman for a leasing company wanted to know what on earth would he do with a used engine taken off after such a swap.