Flying-Tiger
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Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:42 am

"Last year alone, Airbus spent approximately $7 billion at roughly 400 supplier companies in 40 U.S. states, which translates into over 140,000 skilled jobs in the U.S. For the U.S. aerospace industry, Airbus is the number one export customer."

Source: http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch...s/new/bus_overview_10_07_2005.html

Guess those are finally some numbers about the importance of Airbus on the US economy in general.
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klmcedric
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:50 am

Yes, but the A-380 is still fugly!!!

Signed,
Tinkerbelle and co
 
TaromA380
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:59 am

Hey, I got a thought:

Airbus subcontractors are ~50%+ in US.

On a different note, Boeing subcontractors are mostly disseminated around the globe (Japan, China, EU ...).

Thus, Boeing is counting on many foreign airlines to buy their products because of political reasons. Ex: Alitalia would be interested in the 787 because big parts of it are made in Italy. And so on.

And back to Airbus, I don't think the interest in Airbus aircrafts in the US are at the level of the 50%+ american subcontractors.

So, is Boeing smarter than Airbus ?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:03 am

Both Airbus and Boeing have huge contracts for parts around the world. I think Boeing is in a few more countries, though.

Both companies are really considered "global", so what is the point of this thread?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:14 am

Yes and no. Airbus has become a strong company, but in the same time, other US aerospace companies have shut down, unable to compete commercially. The NET job CREATION is not the same as breaking out how many jobs can be attributed to suppliers, as those same suppliers could have been providing jobs to the now defunct or absorbed.

These kind of numbers are always used by political forces to claim "I created XXX jobs thus I am a god." Rarely is that true.

Between Boeing needing to outsource more to compete on price, and the loss of Lockheed and MD due to inferior product to Airbus/Boeing, there were thousands upon thousands upon thousands of job losses both directly and through suppliers as a result of Airbus.

Ultimately, it's probably a wash out, taking normal growth into account.
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N79969
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
which translates into over 140,000 skilled jobs in the U.S.

If Airbus folded the tent today, I am pretty sure 140,000 people would not lose their jobs.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 2):
And back to Airbus, I don't think the interest in Airbus aircrafts in the US are at the level of the 50%+ american subcontractors.

So, is Boeing smarter than Airbus ?

Boeing is working with long time international partners on the 787. Given the size of those workshares and the potential for worldwide 787 sales, the revenue for those parts will exceed revenue Boeing is getting from those countries. That obviously is a lame strategy for winning orders from those countries, giving more than you take in. Therefore there must be another reason for the Boeing buying from these guys, and Airbus buying from the US. Airbus and Boeing are primarily buying where they can find a mix of best technology and experience, capital for risk sharing, and price.


However, those figures from the Germany embassy are extremely misleading. They are not creating 140,000 full time jobs, merely 140,000 people are working on things at some point per year on things related to Airbus. $7 billion/140,000 workers = $50,000/worker but doesn't account for raw material costs which is probably some 50% of Airbus expenditures. $25K per worker isn't very much.
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solnabo
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:54 am

http://www.n24.se/dynamiskt/verkstadsindustri/did_10785774.asp

*sorry, only in swedish*

SAAB got an order to build cargo doors for the B787 worth $1,2 Bln...

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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
For the U.S. aerospace industry, Airbus is the number one export customer."

...while Boeing is a major exporter of jobs from the U.S. to other parts of the the world. When one sorts through all the smoke-and-mirrors, Airbus has made a more than equitable contribution to the U.S. economy. As I see it, nothing could be further from the truth when U.S. airlines are labeled as "traitors" for buying Airbus products -- especially when Boeing has, at the same time, moved an increasing share of their production overseas.
 
N79969
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:08 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 8):
When one sorts through all the smoke-and-mirrors, Airbus has made a more than equitable contribution to the U.S. economy. As I see it, nothing could be further from the truth when U.S. airlines are labeled as "traitors" for buying Airbus products -- especially when Boeing has, at the same time, moved an increasing share of their production overseas.

I do not believe that US airlines that buy Airbus are traitors. That is very silly.


However idea that Airbus has been an equitable contributor to the US economy is pretty absurd. How do you account for the billions poured into Airbus that helped kill off McDonnell Douglas and eviscerated the aerospace industry in southern California and elsewhere. Thousands were thrown out of work.

Since Airbus cannot fail or be allowed to exit the market like Lockeed or MDD, that creates a moral hazard and increases the risk that Boeing faces. They have to spread the risk of projects to overseas partners or risk bankruptcy if they get it wrong.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:23 am

For my fellow countrymen who criticize Boeing for its outsourcing, what then is the sincerest form of flattery? This article from Forbes cites that Airbus is cutting back "in house" production from 40% to 30%. Not sure whether this is only for the A350 though, but it will certainly will point to Airbus' strategic direction for the future.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2005/10/17/afx2279698.html
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: Economic Impact Of Airbus On The US Economy

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 9):
How do you account for the billions poured into Airbus that helped kill off McDonnell Douglas

The demise of McDonnell-Douglas should, in my estimation, be ruled a suicide. "New" airliners that are nothing more than derivatives of 25-year-old designs, which fall far short of improved performance reperesented by the manufacturer, is not exactly a formula for success in the commercial airliner production business.

In any event, even if Airbus was responsible for inducing McDD to commit suicide, Airbus has given back most (all?) of the losses to the U.S. economy that resulted from the demise of McDD inasmuch as McDD, like Boeing, was very much involved in exporting jobs and subcontract work from the U.S. to other parts of the world.

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