panamair
Posts: 3759
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DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:27 am

According to a posting at the FlyerTalk site, Delta will officially announce the addition of 11(!!) new transatlantic routes from ATL and JFK to Europe/Middle East for spring/summer 2006 tomorrow (Tues Oct 18). In addition, there will also be expanded service on two existing international routes.

THis is in line with previous posts here at a.net about DL significantly expanding European ops next year. Wonder if the 11 already include the previously announced ones as well, i.e., ATL-TLV, ATL-DUS, and ATL-CPH; or the applied-for JFK-KBP.

I guess that's what you get when you hire an ex-CO Network Planning Chief!
 
ScottishLaddie
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:35 am

Wow that's alot!

ATL-EDI, just 10 more to go!  Wow!
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:37 am

Please, return to Helsinki. AY needs some competition on the North American market.
 
LXsaab2000
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:37 am

Which routes are the best candidates to come true?
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:40 am

JFK-WAW

They already flew it and it was profitable. I'm 90% sure it could be one of them.

ATL-WAW

quite possible as ATL is becoming NYC of the South and it would give a very nice access from Central Europe to the Florida market.

JFK - PRG
JFK - ARN
ATL - ARN
JFK - BUD

- wild guess, but who knows?  Smile
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:40 am

Any chance of JFK-LYS?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 4):
quite possible as ATL is becoming NYC of the South and it would give a very nice access from Central Europe to the Florida market.

It what respect beyond the 500 pound gorilla of a hub? Don't ever compare Atlanta and New York again.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:50 am

According to various clues and comments by the highly-trustworthy MAH4546 peppered throughout multiple threads, here are a few clues:

-ATL will get three routes that are currently JFK-only.

My guesses here are ATL-ATH, ATL-IST, and probably ATL-VCE (other choices were either TXL or NCE but TXL was only started this year from JFK and DL may give it some more time to develop; I think VCE slightly outstrips NCE in terms of year-round viability)

- ATL will get a brand new station:

This is the previously-leaked ATL-EDI.

- JFK will get a brand new station:

This is probably JFK-BUD (in another thread about CO potentially doing EWR-BUD, it was mentioned that a major carrier will soon be announcing new service to BUD). PRG is already served by codeshare partner OK. DL may be taking advantage of MA's problems.

- JFK will get two pre-9/11 routes back:

This is a toughie. The candidates are ARN, MAN, DUB/SNN, ZRH, MUC, CAI/DXB. No clue here.
 
A350
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 4):

JFK-WAW
...
ATL-WAW
...
JFK - PRG
JFK - ARN
ATL - ARN
JFK - BUD

- wild guess, but who knows? {Smile}

Absolutely! These are important cities and they need more connections.

A350
 
gkirk
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:00 am

ATL-EDI (Would be hilarious if it was actually ATL-GLA  Silly)
JFK-MAN
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
A350
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:03 am

Recently there was a thread about Deltas new route maps
here in the forum.

Here they come:




A350
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:07 am

Actually, the Herald Trib has already announced it:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/17/business/delta.php

11 new routes:
ATL-EDI (leaked)
ATL-TLV (already announced)
ATL-CPH (already announced)
ATL-DUS (already announced)
ATL-ATH
ATL-NCE
ATL-VCE
JFK-BUD
JFK-MAN
JFK-DUB/SNN
JFK-KBP (await govt approval)

Increased service:
ATL-SNN (summer only)
JFK-FCO
 
flyguy1
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
My guesses here are ATL-ATH, ATL-IST

I did not think the 767 has enough range to do this flight profitably. IIRC, when ATL-IST was flown in the past, it was an MD11.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Checo77
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:08 am

I would be great to see DL in PRG!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think they are more likely to start JFK-PRG service than ATL-PRG service, but that is just great!!! In addition, CSA is a SkyTeam partner, so many DL pax would have great connection to Central and Europe and the Middle East through PRG.
I really hope to see DL in PRG.
Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
HAJFlyer
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
ZRH

I cannot imagine that DL wants to compete head on with AA and LX on this route unless AA gives it up which might very well happen when the code share agreement with LX ends.

Don't forget that CO and LX (Privatair) also serve EWR which is quite popular with high yield business travelers heading into Manhattan.

I would prefer to see ZRH-CVG again (used to be served by the venerable L1011-500 when LX and DL were code-sharing across the pond), but the chances that this will happen are unfortunately minuscule.
 
Kohflot
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:10 am

Any chance for ATL-LIS?
Ask why..
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
I guess that's what you get when you hire an ex-CO Network Planning Chief!

You bet . DL should have hired those years ago.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
-ATL will get three routes that are currently JFK-only.

Agree with that, likely thrice-weekly to ATH and 4x weekly to IST, just like the first time around.
As far as the third is concerned, I would put NCE over VCE, due to the size of the metro area, and TXL is still too "fresh" to already warrant a 2nd flight.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
- JFK will get a brand new station:

Well, I'd also expect it to be BUD, though maybe DL already inofficially has been granted JFK-KBP, so who knows .

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
- JFK will get two pre-9/11 routes back:

I guess I know which those two routes are (Thanks Mark ).

And as is obvious now, the 764ERs will go to Europe, because even with converting all domestic 763ERs and cutting domestic BizE flights, you wouldn't have enough planes to operate these 11 new flights, plus ATL-CPH, plus ATL-DUS, plus ATL-TLV (2 planes).
Damn, I'm typing too slow. Why is it that some newspapers always leak routes before an airline officially announces them?

[Edited 2005-10-18 00:13:30]
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:13 am

NYT got the announcement early - Delta hasn't been able to keep any of the major new route announcements secret lately. ATL-TLV/CPH/DUS were all leaked at least a week in advance. I believe that the Atlanta flights to EDI/ATH/VCE/NCE will all be summer-only, but maybe not? The JFK-Ireland flight will be JFK-DUB-SNN-JFK, BTW.
a.
 
LXsaab2000
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:24 am

JFK-FCO increased? What does it mean? 2 daily 767 or 1 with 777?

If I remember well CDG is the only European city to get more than 1 daily DL flight to JFK. So maybe FCO will be the second.
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:32 am

Quoting LXsaab2000 (Reply 18):
If I remember well CDG is the only European city to get more than 1 daily DL flight to JFK. So maybe FCO will be the second

JFK-FCO has been flown double daily in the past.

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 12):
I did not think the 767 has enough range to do this flight profitably.

If the 763 can fly SFO-MXP, SFO-CDG, JFK-TLV, then IST should be no problem at all on ATL-IST.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 7):
- JFK will get a brand new station:
This is probably JFK-BUD

Wasnt JFK-BUD flown by Delta in the past? If not was it a tag of JFK-Stuttgart?

KAHALA777
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
I believe that the Atlanta flights to EDI/ATH/VCE/NCE will all be summer-only, but maybe not?

Seems EDI might be year round, but hey, should find out for certain tomorrow anyway.  Smile
 
777gk
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:45 am

Good to see other carriers continue to validate our strategy: the money is to be made in Europe and elsewhere.

The start up costs for these routes will be considerable, and I don't think they'll all last, but I am confident this kind of aggressive expansion will only help Delta work their way out Chapter 11. I can't say the same for Northwest, in this case their traditionally conservative approach may be the opposite of what they need.

Time will tell, but it is nice to see Delta recommit to the NYC-Europe market. There is plenty of room for all!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:23 am

Here's my take:

ATL-EDI (leaked) -Should do well particularly in the summer..might have to scale back in winter

ATL-TLV (already announced) - The O+D isn't great, but the connecting opportunities will make this flight a winner. I think TLV is a little underserved from the U.S.

ATL-CPH (already announced) - Not so confident in this one...might be ok in the summer, but a real struggle otherwise.

ATL-DUS (already announced) - I think this one will fill another niche...much like ATL-STR

ATL-ATH - Should make a good summer seasonal route, but I can't imagine this route during the winter

ATL-NCE - Similar as with ATL-ATH...good during summer but nothing else.

ATL-VCE - Same as ATL-NCE.

JFK-BUD - I think this route has potential...maybe DL can codeshare with Malev again....although that might piss off CSA.

JFK-MAN - I have my doubts on this one...DL has tried it before and it wasn't pretty. DL just doesn't have any traction in the NYC-UK market.

JFK-DUB/SNN - DL has been wanting to bring this one back for a while. The only hesistance was the SNN stopover, which apparently they've overcome.

JFK-KBP (await govt approval) - Much like BUD, an interesting niche market that has a lot of potential.

Overall, I would think about seven of these routes has long term survivability. The real big concern is if all the added capacity will kill transatlantic yields.
 
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mariner
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
The real big concern is if all the added capacity will kill transatlantic yields.

You have any doubt about this?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2213
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:36 am

This is good news for DL and of course fits in with their plan. Question: where are they getting the aircraft? Obviously with the 762's going away, they must be reducing domestic services to schedule 763's and possibly, as discussed on this forum, the 764 to across the pond. Their T7's are already highly utilized and between Japan and Isarel.

Some of these routes however do appear seasonal to me: EDI, CPH, NCE, VCE, ATH. Nonetheless hopefully this works for them. They need some good news for a change.  Smile
 
commavia
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
maybe DL can codeshare with Malev again

I think MALEV may already be taken by AA!
 
goCOgo
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
ATL-ATH

I could be dead wrong here or confusing this with something else, but don't they need Greek approval to add on at ATH? I had though that Greece was none too generous with ATH, as airlines like CO had been trying to get in but couldn't.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 26):
I had though that Greece was none too generous with ATH, as airlines like CO had been trying to get in but couldn't.

Continental does not have the feed or the desire. There was a time when Continental planned to launch SVO and ATH. That never came into play. Continental has found more money operating other routes. The bulk of JFK-ATH traffic if O/D family type flights. Athens, has suffered miserably over the years when North Amerian leisure traffic dwindles from October to April.

KAHALA777
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:10 am

JFK-MAN, again?

They tried this once. It didn't work.
 
willyj
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:16 am

KBP is Kiev for anyone who doesn't know. That's not an obvious one and (at least on my computer) it doesn't come up when I roll my mouse over it...

I think Delta has to reconfigure the 764s with all of this expansion. Do you think they will have larger buinesselite cabins than the 763s, or will they have much larger economy sections due to their use on the Hawaiian routes?
 
Skip17
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:20 am

Although the talk has been directed mostly toward JFK and ATL...I wouldn't be surprised to see a SLC-CDG (supported by west connecting passengers) stuck in there. The Air France hub in Paris is to valuable to DL to leave out a route for those not willing to connect in a large busy airport like JFK, ATL, CVG etc. etc.
Cheers
 
BigGSFO
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:28 am

It is very clear which gateways DL is most interested in expanding across the Atlantic: JFK and ATL. No CVG, no SLC, no BOS.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 27):
The bulk of JFK-ATH traffic if O/D family type flights.

Agreed. ATH is seasonal at best. Some cruising and tourists in the summer but usually the first European city nervous American fliers will cancel their tickets to whenever there is terrorist activity in the Middle East.
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 31):
Some cruising and tourists in the summer but usually the first European city nervous American fliers will cancel their tickets to whenever there is terrorist activity in the Middle East.

Followed only by Rome, and Istanbul!  Smile

KAHALA777
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
It what respect beyond the 500 pound gorilla of a hub?

What are you trying to communicate here, child?

With Skyteam memeber Continental providing service to the world from EWR, it is entirely reasonable that international service from ATL would increase (and JFK would decrease).
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
laca773
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):

Yes. They previously served JFK-BUD and had a codeshare with MA but ended it I believe right before or after 9/11.

LACA773
 
georgiaame
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:15 pm

As a very frequent international leisure traveler, all of the above sounds nice. Certainly it would be more convenient for me than having to change flights in Paris or Newark, which currently is a small price to pay rather than having to subject myself to Delta's ghastly in flight service (or lack there of).

You can fly non stop with the greatest crews in the world, and the best mechanically maintained aircraft in the air. But if you are seated in a cramped garbage scow, with torn seats (and I'm talking about my first class experience to Florida this weekend) do you really expect to keep a loyal, sustainable customer base on a money making route? (I can't complain too loudly, "first class" Atlanta/West Palm cost $140 round trip with the upgrades, but I think I overpaid) Unless Delta cleans up (literally!) its act, I ain't getting into one of their torn up, grimy, $5. a drink flights for 8½ hours in each direction. Not when I can get Champagne with AF without someone dipping his or her hands into my wallet before I even land. Or a decent bowl of soup on my way up to Newark with Continental. For the same price.

Honest guys, you can't make this stuff up and you can't just shrug off such consistently slovenly service! I don't care how many cities they fly to non stop. Sloppy service is sloppy service, and it shows.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
N509JB
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 35):
You can fly non stop with the greatest crews in the world, and the best mechanically maintained aircraft in the air. But if you are seated in a cramped garbage scow, with torn seats (and I'm talking about my first class experience to Florida this weekend) do you really expect to keep a loyal, sustainable customer base on a money making route? (I can't complain too loudly, "first class" Atlanta/West Palm cost $140 round trip with the upgrades, but I think I overpaid) Unless Delta cleans up (literally!) its act, I ain't getting into one of their torn up, grimy, $5. a drink flights for 8½ hours in each direction. Not when I can get Champagne with AF without someone dipping his or her hands into my wallet before I even land. Or a decent bowl of soup on my way up to Newark with Continental. For the same price.

Honest guys, you can't make this stuff up and you can't just shrug off such consistently slovenly service! I don't care how many cities they fly to non stop. Sloppy service is sloppy service, and it shows.

For the love of God, do you think you can go one post without spewing your bile about Delta? We get it, you had a bad flight!

They're updating the interiors, every US airline charges for alcohol in coach, and the seat pitch is about average.

This post is not about what YOU think of Delta. Stay on topic!

B
 
MarshalN
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:44 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
ATL-NCE

Having just been to NCE, I can't imagine it not being a seasonal route. Some hotels are closing down for the season as we speak, and there just isn't much else going on there other than for vacation....
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18111
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:53 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 37):
and there just isn't much else going on there other than for vacation....

That's why they have the Cannes Film Festival in May - to try and get people to go to the South of France out of season.

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Lono
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:56 pm

I think all these cities except for KBP perhaps are all cities DL got permission to serve from their PA spending... my question is.... how come they figure they can make money on these routes now when they tried before and failed...???
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
kaitak
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:56 pm

This is very interesting from an Irish perspective; I can only imagine that the Irish authorities were sat down and told "easy way or hard way?" and threatened with the loss of the ATL-SNN/DUB altogether if they didn't get their act together.

I'm presuming that even if ATL-SNN is Summer only, the ATL-DUB route will continue year round?

Also, the question occurs: where are they going to get the aircraft for all of this? They only have a finite number of 763ERs? Presumably some 763s can be converted to ETOPS for shorter t/a routes, such as those from JFK to Ireland and the UK, but what about longer routes like Kiev and TLV?
 
ETStar
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:08 pm

Am surprised that no one cared to even give Johannesburg a shot, that is, before the actual routes were announced. You'd think that maybe, just maybe DL could have racked up a customer base to allow for an ATL-JNB hop on a 772, after all these years codesharing with SAA.

I think that SAA needs to be challenged on the North American route especially when it has the luxury of operating from 3 gateways.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):

Also, the question occurs: where are they going to get the aircraft for all of this? They only have a finite number of 763ERs?

Who said all this flying is going to be with 763ERs?  Wink
a.
 
flyboy7974
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:22 pm

reading from the above, i still have wished that delta would bring back jfk-stuttgart service that they offered back in the 90s. i am still surprised that atlanta is the only nonstop service that str has to the u.s., and that flight on delta on the 767 is always heavily booked
 
BA
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:32 pm

I know prior to 9/11, DL was eyeing JFK-BEY.

Perhaps one day...

I could see CAI/DXB returning soon.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
N774UA
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:44 pm

There is also a rumor floating around that they will start BOS-AMS next summer.

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
United Airline
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:54 pm

I think they should expand more into Asia....
 
LXsaab2000
Posts: 320
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:02 pm

Maybe is DL going to give up the worst Atlantic routes to open the new ones?
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting LXsaab2000 (Reply 47):
Maybe is DL going to give up the worst Atlantic routes to open the new ones?

No, they aren't. The announcement at 10.30AM will answer the questions as to where the planes are coming from.
a.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: DL To Announce 11 New Transatlantic Routes

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:50 pm

Quoting N774UA (Reply 45):
There is also a rumor floating around that they will start BOS-AMS next summer.

Doesn't make sense.NW is already on the route, and as long as DL still isn't allowed FIS in their terminal, they won't add any international flights from BOS except to airports with pre-clearance, plus CUN, which might also get pre-clearance.

Quoting BA (Reply 44):
I know prior to 9/11, DL was eyeing JFK-BEY.

Perhaps one day...

Honestly, I'd expect MEA on this route before DL.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 43):
reading from the above, i still have wished that delta would bring back jfk-stuttgart service that they offered back in the 90s.

That flight primarily relied on transporting Daimler-Chrysler people between the two HQs. But D-C launched their own flights using an A319CJ, which significantly reduced yields on the route, and loads possibly as well.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 41):
Am surprised that no one cared to even give Johannesburg a shot, that is, before the actual routes were announced. You'd think that maybe, just maybe DL could have racked up a customer base to allow for an ATL-JNB hop on a 772, after all these years codesharing with SAA.

That's primarily because a JNB service would require too many resources, read: planes, 2 at least, if not 3. South Africe might sure be a potential money-maker, but for now it would mean too many costs to just get the service established. It's too bad that JNB is so far from GRU or EZE, that would have been a nice way to both launch JNB and reduce the time a plane sits on the ground in South America.