Markdirk
Topic Author
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The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:30 am

With all the major airlines looking to overseas flight expansions and cutting back on domestic, and with a recent explosion of announcements from CO, DL, NW, UA etc. has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?
 
Indy
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:33 am

Will this be the first international low cost carrier in the U.S.? If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices? Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Tornado82
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting Markdirk (Thread starter):
has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?

They'll need more widebodies, first. Their 757's aren't ETOPS, and their widebody fleet is pretty tiny and gets stretched pretty hard in the summer peak season.
 
brokenrecord
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices? Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?

My guess is that coach fares will be lowered, and Envoy fares will rise.

As it stands now, US is very competitive price-wise in the biz class market. For example:

ORF-DOH, Unrestricted business class

AA/BA averages $10,000
NW/KL averages $8,000
US/LH (QR codeshare) averages $7,000, and I have seen as low as $6,000
 
Tornado82
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:52 am

brokenrecord: where's DOH? The mouse-over doesn't know that one, and nor do I.
 
fewsolarge
Posts: 398
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:55 am

Doh! It's the capital of Qatar (Doha).
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
They'll need more widebodies, first. Their 757's aren't ETOPS,

Some of their 757's will be ETOPS cert'ed begining this month. These are the planes that will be used for Hawaii however.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
brokenrecord
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 5):
Doh! It's the capital of Qatar (Doha).

HAHAHAHA!! Correct answer though.  Smile
 
captaink
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:04 am

When US expands their fleet, maybe they should look into some pacific side expansion. They already fly to some very key cities in Europe. But routes to places like HKG and NRT might be order.. Right now as mentioned their longhaul fleet is pretty tight, further expansion is going to be easy..
There is something special about planes....
 
Kahala777
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?

Yes, US Airways has plans to make a few things in order over the next few years. Routes such as SFO, LAX, SEA will all maintain a more "traditional" price tag as you may. Routes such as LAS, SAN, DEN will be going more and more via the "new" price structure for US Airways.

Look no further than United Airlines and TED to see how things will/may be done by US Airways in the future. International service is US Airways bread and butter for the moment, dont look for it to evaporate overnight, or for US Airways to go all Economy overseas.

Keep in mind that US Airways is a key player in Star Alliance, it would not be, if it were a sole Low Cost, one class airline.

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices?

US Airways has established relationships in all markets that it serves. There are going to be a few additions over the next couple of years to existing European gateways for US Airways. Namely look for routes such as PHX-LGW, PHX-FRA, LAS-FRA, and PHL-VIE to come into play. It is strongly being discussed that the likes of PHL-AMS, and PHL-CDG will be reduced in the coming years.

The goal, or current vision is for all airlines to meet in the European and North American gateways of Star Alliance partners. This would mean linking cities such as Phoenix with Frankfurt, and Las Vegas with Frankfurt. These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

So instead of US Airways operating a dozen or so European gateways, they can focus on only the European gateways with heavy Summer Traffic, or Year Round alliance feed.

KAHALA777
 
captaink
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:16 am

Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777. Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced? Especially CDG? Would these routes be picked out of another hub city or something? Are all US European routes money making?
There is something special about planes....
 
Kahala777
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777. Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced? Especially CDG? Would these routes be picked out of another hub city or something? Are all US European routes money making?

To be honest, what I am hearing is from the Lufthansa side of things. I would not count the word for Gold, but considering that my source has been at Lufthansa for a good 17 years, I can count it as valuable information. My only guess as to a loss of Amsterdam, is no connecting traffic. My guess to Paris, is that the connecting traffic is limited to Lufthansa and Air Dolomiti routes that can be reached by Frankfurt and Munich instead. Routes such as Barcelona and Venice are good moneymakers in Summer, as they are contract driven with Cruise and Tour operators. So in most cases the routes go out being paid for, full or not.

KAHALA777
 
AeroWesty
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
Will this be the first international low cost carrier in the U.S.?

PeoplExpress was.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ouboy79
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:41 am

Some chatter about the US-West ETOPS 757s being used to take over SNN and DUB, which would open the 767s up on those routes for others.
 
vega
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:24 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
It is strongly being discussed that the likes of PHL-AMS, and PHL-CDG will be reduced in the coming years.

I don't understand why they would drop a no-competiton route like PHL-AMS - maybe reduce it to summer only. As far as PHL-CDG is concerned, if they dropped it, AF would just pick up the overflow with either greater frequency or a larger AC. Can't understand why they would give away that business. I believe both of these routes are quite profitable, especially PHL-CDG, which I have flown twice this year in full Envoy both times.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):

The goal, or current vision is for all airlines to meet in the European and North American gateways of Star Alliance partners. This would mean linking cities such as Phoenix with Frankfurt, and Las Vegas with Frankfurt. These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

Don't understand this logic. PHX is not served by LH and LAS only has 2x Condor flights with a 767 - no burden to LH.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
vega
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting Markdirk (Thread starter):
With all the major airlines looking to overseas flight expansions and cutting back on domestic, and with a recent explosion of announcements from CO, DL, NW, UA etc. has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?

Unfortunately US is not in the same boat as CO or DL, regarding available long range aircraft. They'll more than likely refine the existing European routes (drop + add = net) and have to wait for the 350's or ? to do anything more substantial. I think a lot of people are very interested in what the combined airline's European strategy will be. Unfortunately, if US waits 3 or 4 years to significantly expand internationally, CO and others will eat their lunch.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
Nimish
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

And why would LH not try to grow more in the US? They already have a large USA network - I would think they'd be looking to grow to new cities?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
A330323X
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777.

Don't feed the troll.  Wink

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced?

AMS is by far the worst-performing year-round transatlantic station. I wouldn't be shocked to see it go, but I don't expect it to, either.

CDG won't be going anywhere. US has already cut their CDG frequencies from a high of 4x daily to the current 1x daily. The remaining flight does very well.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Some chatter about the US-West ETOPS 757s being used to take over SNN and DUB, which would open the 767s up on those routes for others.

What I've heard is that HP 757s will be used for SNN and one new station, probably BHX. That would free up a 767 for a new station, probably VIE. DUB performs well enough, it's SNN that is the disaster. US would certainly not serve it at all if they didn't have to.

In the alternative, if they don't go with the 757s to Europe, I've heard they might not return to Ireland next year at all. That would free up 2 767s, probably for VIE and ZRH.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:19 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 15):
Unfortunately US is not in the same boat as CO or DL, regarding available long range aircraft. They'll more than likely... have to wait for the 350's or ? to do anything more substantial.

Well, US does have an order for 10 more A330s in the near future. These were slated to allow the airline to retire the aging Piedmont-era B762s, but it's conceivable that US could, as a stopgap, use the freed-up 762s to expand service to Europe until the A350s become available. A perfect solution? No, but certainly better than nothing.

That, or as mentioned, they could use the fleet of 13 US-West B752s to fly long-thin transatlantic routes, again as a stopgap in lieu of the new Airbuses.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
A330323X
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:37 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
That, or as mentioned, they could use the fleet of 13 US-West B752s to fly long-thin transatlantic routes, again as a stopgap in lieu of the new Airbuses.

Not quite. The ALPA transition agreement only permits 2 aircraft on the HP certificate to fly to Europe until the operational merger, which is why there's only talk of the HP birds flying 2 routes. (It also technically prohibits HP service replacing US service to an existing destination like SNN, but I don't see that as a big problem.)

And if they did put 757s on thinner routes like SNN or BHX, they would remain 757s even after the newer widebodies arrived. SNN can't support a B762ER, it certainly can't support a much larger A358.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:00 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
Well, US does have an order for 10 more A330s in the near future.

Don't forget about the 350's coming too...
 
gilesdavies
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:13 pm

US Airways over the past few years has carefully being "tweaking" their European routes, and you can be pretty sure any route operated by an A330 is pretty secure and will not be dropped... Otherewise it would be operated by a 762.

CDG is operated by an A330 and can not imagaine that route will be dropped. If it is reduced the worst that would happen would be a 762 operating the route.

How do the DUB and SNN routes fair?, is it really necessary to have 767's flying to Ireland. Surely it would be worthwhile these being placed or routes to major European cities not currently covered.
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 20):
Don't forget about the 350's coming too...

Too long of a wait for what's still a paper airplane. US needs these birds like tomorrow, to get a foot in the door before CO "eats their lunch" as was previously said, so they'll either need to expedite the operational merger (doubt that its possible) or try to sweet-talk Airbus into hastening the A330's (also not very likely given the financing from Airbus previously and whatnot)
 
jmc1975
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 17):
What I've heard is that HP 757s will be used for SNN and one new station, probably BHX. That would free up a 767 for a new station, probably VIE. DUB performs well enough, it's SNN that is the disaster. US would certainly not serve it at all if they didn't have to.

Don't forget BRU as a possibility.
.......
 
karan69
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:56 pm

How about a new flight to India, say PHL-MAN-BOM, hitting all major textile cities in the world [barring China ofcourse] I am sure this route will be a profitable one, especially if they code share for European flights with BMI from their MAN hub, and for USA they have their own Philly hub.
 
A330323X
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
How do the DUB and SNN routes fair?, is it really necessary to have 767's flying to Ireland.

As I said in Reply 17, DUB performs well, but SNN loses money. The first year they operated, they were hoping for SNN to break-even and DUB to make money, and they both performed well above expectations. Unfortunately, it seems as though everyone in PHL who wanted to go to Ireland went that summer, as they've performed worse each year since. DUB is still a worthwhile route, but they would not be flying for SNN but for the U.S.-Ireland bilateral.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 22):
try to sweet-talk Airbus into hastening the A330's (also not very likely given the financing from Airbus previously and whatnot)

US is the one who pushed the A330-200 deliveries back in the first place.

Airbus could deliver them sooner, but US doesn't want them until 2009. While more widebodies now would indeed be nice, US doesn't want the expensive distraction of adding them while dealing with the merger at the same time.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
Don't forget BRU as a possibility.

BRU is not a possibility.

It sucked the first time around. And that was back when US and SABENA were friendly and US had some interlining opportunities at BRU, so it'd probably perform even worse now. Not to mention that there are far better opportunites in Star hubs to fly to like VIE, ZRH, WAW.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
Tornado82
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 25):
WAW

If you're going to run WAW, that should be the resumption of PIT-Europe service. It'll throw a bone to Allegheny County... while connecting the huge Polish population in Pittsburgh to their homeland where many still have relatives... and Pittsburgh can become the pierogie and kielbasa capital of the US. Oh, wait, already have done that.  Smile
 
BigGSFO
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:21 pm

I know it's not Europe, but any thoughts HP/US would look across the other ocean and launch a PHX-NRT flight?
 
VS747SPUR
Posts: 365
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:08 am

Does anyone know how well the US flights from Charlotte and Philadelphia to LGW are doing ?

Many thanks,
VS747SPUR
Fly DL
 
vsflyer747400
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:34 pm

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting VS747SPUR (Reply 28):
Does anyone know how well the US flights from Charlotte and Philadelphia to LGW are doing

We just had our US rep in the office and he said that loads arent doing too bad of late but wouldnt quote figures. He did mention that any expansion in the UK might take the shape of flights ex PHX and LAS to LGW but no again dateline was mentioned.
Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
 
US AIRWAYS
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 9:56 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:16 am

They are doing pretty well, at least from PHL. I usually check the loads during the week for the heck of it and they're usually about 60-80% full mid-week and almost completely full towards the end of the week and on sundays. I know they are a little less full from CLT.
Go Eagles!
 
airbazar
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RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:07 am

Speaking of US, I'll be flying with them shortly PHL-MUC on one of their 767's.
How is their service like across the pond on these birds? Thanks.
 
cloud4000
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:38 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:55 am

Remember US Airways announced before the merger that it's returning nearly 60 planes to lessors. This may free up some cash flow to purchase new planes.
Boston, USA
 
PITA333
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:59 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
If you're going to run WAW, that should be the resumption of PIT-Europe service. It'll throw a bone to Allegheny County... while connecting the huge Polish population in Pittsburgh to their homeland where many still have relatives... and Pittsburgh can become the pierogie and kielbasa capital of the US. Oh, wait, already have done that.

Hahaha, Tornado82, I'm gald there are people like you on a.net who have as much Pittsburgh Pride as me!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 33):
Hahaha, Tornado82, I'm gald there are people like you on a.net who have as much Pittsburgh Pride as me!

Yes indeed, even if I did move to "that other side of PA" now. Just trying to lighten up A.net occassionally.  Smile
 
F27XXX
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:53 pm

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
and Pittsburgh can become the pierogie and kielbasa capital of the US. Oh, wait, already have done that.


Is THAT what that smell always is in Pittsburgh!?

 rotfl 
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 24):
How about a new flight to India, say PHL-MAN-BOM, hitting all major textile cities in the world [barring China ofcourse] I am sure this route will be a profitable one, especially if they code share for European flights with BMI from their MAN hub, and for USA they have their own Philly hub.

Would have to be a second departure as the existing flight is the banker in the US portfolio at the moment. Excellent yield.

I can't see why it wouldn't work if they wanted to try it.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Adam T.
Posts: 796
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 7:01 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 25):
DUB is still a worthwhile route, but they would not be flying for SNN but for the U.S.-Ireland bilateral.

I'm a bit confused.....why does US have to serve SNN in addition to serve DUB? Is there some sort of law between the US and Ireland that says if an airline serves DUB they have to serve SNN as well?

Adam
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting Adam T. (Reply 37):
I'm a bit confused.....why does US have to serve SNN in addition to serve DUB? Is there some sort of law between the US and Ireland that says if an airline serves DUB they have to serve SNN as well?

Ireland requires that if an airline serves DUB they must equally serve SNN.
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:45 pm

Anybody has any idea why this is so? I mean it is pretty demanding of Ireland to want this? And some airlines really don't do so well on the SNN route... Do airlines always just combine the two in one trip? How does US Airways do it?
There is something special about planes....
 
cloud4000
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:38 am

RE: The New US Airways European Expansion?

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:51 pm

It’s Ireland way to improve the economy in the southern part of the country. I don’t think SNN needs protection any more, it’s a major maintenance and cargo hub in its own right. But old habits die hard, I guess
Boston, USA

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