AAgent
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Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:05 am

"Strong Competition Has Led to Low Fares at DFW Airport

FORT WORTH, Texas -- New research by Bijan Vasigh, a professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU), calls into question the validity of a previous study distributed by Southwest Airlines and The Campbell-Hill Aviation Group. Professor Vasigh examined the economic premise of the Campbell-Hill study and found significant economic modeling errors that call into question the validity of the entire study. Chief among Campbell Hill’s errors are:

1) Assuming there are currently no low-cost carriers operating at DFW International Airport;

2) Relying upon pricing and market-stimulation assumptions that are more than a decade old; and

3) Ignoring the industry’s fare readjustment in January 2005."


The article continues at length at the following link...

http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pr...Releases/2005_10/18_newstudy.jhtml

Professor Bijan Vasigh has some interesting arguments indeed.

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AAgent
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:14 am

Southwest is about to find out what happens when their local issue goes national and people who know what they're actually talking about on the issue get involved.
 
cjpark
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:28 am

Sounds vaguely familiar to what some people have been pointing out in numerous threads on this board. WN's motives may be crystal clear but their facts are not.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:42 am

Where is the WN/DAL rebuttal on this topic? I've grown rather fond of the spirited debates between the WN/DAL and AA/DFW camps. Where's OP and the WN legions? Perhaps they're busy packing up they're desks getting ready for the big move out of Dallas. biggrin 


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AAgent
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 3):
Where is the WN/DAL rebuttal on this topic? I've grown rather fond of the spirited debates between the WN/DAL and AA/DFW camps. Where's OP and the WN legions? Perhaps they're busy packing up they're desks getting ready for the big move out of Dallas.

I'm in the FAA's camp and both sides need to can it. DFW/AA quit being stupid and not addressing the issue the way it should be and WN/DAL quit acting like the kid that never got a spanking.
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:23 am

AAgent,
We've grown bored of you only contributing pro WA/AA propaganda.

Flown Southwest, oh I don't know, 10 times, never a problem.
I love flying Southwest and I could care less what happens in DFW.

I've flown AA twice, at great cost, luggage left behind once, treated very, very rudely another. Don't even ask me to recount the episode...I won't. What are the chances? I'm sure it can be attributed to WN operating out of DAL somehow.

I like United as well, so it's not that I'm a die hard WN loyalist either.

See I'm not an industry insider, an analyst or politician. Just a customer (small businessman) who PAYS for ALL of his OWN flights. In the end, it's my opinion that matters. I'll vote with my money.
learning never stops.
 
apodino
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:23 am

I went to Embry-Riddle and I have heard of this proffessor, who is an Aviation Buisness professor. Its a very interesting study and it does bring up alot of questions about this debate. Even though I am opposed to Wright, I am not going to dispute the results of the study. That having been said, I am still opposed to wright, simply because I feel if airlines are allowed to serve the airport, they should be allowed to sell tickets to wherever they fly, which is not the case now. If this had been a different situation, like WN and BFI, I would say WN needs to suck it up. But since they have been allowed to serve DAL for so many years, I don't think you can suddenly say, hasta la vista.

Still, the arguement raised brings up the point that some people against wright may be cherry picking certain airfares on certain routes to try to prove their arguement. The other thing I think this proves is that neither WN nor AA can commission a study that isn't flawed, with data manipulated in their favor. And people still wanted to drink the WN kool aid.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:29 am

"Professor Vasigh concentrated on actual fares charged consumers in each market and found the highest fares at DFW Airport are charged by US Airways, not by American."

Does anyone else see the funny part of this statement?

This study is just about as loopy as all the other studies both sides have been putting out.

Prof Vasigh makes a point about fare comparisons being inacurate because of buisness and first class issues, and is right... then turns around and makes a dollar per mile issue... which is also inacurate because Southwest doesn't do intercontinental long haul like AA does.

The whole monopoly comparisson is wanker spanked too. I'd love to see where AA haveing only a 64% share comes from. Is that passengers or aircraft movements? Did that count Eagle as a seperate operation?... or maybe it was when Delta still had a hub there... AA doesn't have as high a percentage as WN does at DAL... but they are much higher then 64%... maybe they included FedEx and UPS operations into that...


It would be nice if AA would actuall link the whole study instead of parseing it... but at least they admit this study was done for them, and not independant.

I expect soon AA and WN will start off a round of "yes you are", "no I'm not, you are"... maybe even some "I'm rubber and you're clue"
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 6):
I went to Embry-Riddle and I have heard of this proffessor, who is an Aviation Buisness professor. Its a very interesting study and it does bring up alot of questions about this debate. Even though I am opposed to Wright, I am not going to dispute the results of the study. That having been said, I am still opposed to wright, simply because I feel if airlines are allowed to serve the airport, they should be allowed to sell tickets to wherever they fly, which is not the case now. If this had been a different situation, like WN and BFI, I would say WN needs to suck it up. But since they have been allowed to serve DAL for so many years, I don't think you can suddenly say, hasta la vista.

Still, the arguement raised brings up the point that some people against wright may be cherry picking certain airfares on certain routes to try to prove their arguement. The other thing I think this proves is that neither WN nor AA can commission a study that isn't flawed, with data manipulated in their favor. And people still wanted to drink the WN kool aid.

The one problem i have is taht if wright goes down... then places like DCA and LGA will have to remove their perimeters if someone like WN says "i want LGA to LAX"...
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
apodino
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 8):
if someone like WN says "i want LGA to LAX"...

If they ever say that, that will be one you will know where you were when you hear it.
 
incitatus
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 5):
Flown Southwest, oh I don't know, 10 times, never a problem.
I love flying Southwest and I could care less what happens in DFW.

I've flown AA twice, at great cost, luggage left behind once, treated very, very rudely another. Don't even ask me to recount the episode...I won't. What are the chances? I'm sure it can be attributed to WN operating out of DAL somehow.

Flown AA about 700,000 miles. Always got excellent service. I don't love flying it though, sorry. Got some excellent fares and got tired of flying NY-London $99 each way.

Flown Southwest once. It sucked. No assigned seats, rude passengers, silly FAs. Rented a car through Southwest on the website. When I got there, there were no cars. I called Southwest and they told me that's what I get when I book three days in advance. Their customer service has an IQ of about 62.
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modernArt
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
No assigned seats,

Why adults need to be told where to sit still escapes me. 15+ years flying Southwest and still have yet to sit next to somebody that's rude or inconsiderate.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 8):
The one problem i have is taht if wright goes down... then places like DCA and LGA will have to remove their perimeters if someone like WN says "i want LGA to LAX"...

Totally different scenarios. LGA is slot restricted and was forced to limit range due to capacity so that local/regional traffic would be its primary use diverting long haul to JFK and DCA is totally political.
 
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 5):
We've grown bored of you only contributing pro WA/AA propaganda.

If you've grown tired of the matter, why then did you feel obliged to click on the topic? Furthermore, it would seem obvious that you must have at least a passing interest in the subject matter or else you wouldn't have read the thread and then felt compelled to leave a post.

Regarding my own interest in the Wright Amendment, you can bet your bottom dollar that I am very engaged in the matter as I clearly have a vested interest in the outcome, not at all unlike my fellow airline industry compatriots at WN. I will volunteer that I am very passionate about the issue and actively seek engaged debate through which divergent viewpoints can be explored. I am definitely pro-Wright, but I always like to listen to a good argument from the other side. If you don't enjoy reading about it, then please feel free to click on other subjects that you find interesting. There are lot's of other topics for you to explore. Happy clicking on a.net.

Best Regards,
AAgent
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INTENSS
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 6):
I went to Embry-Riddle and I have heard of this proffessor, who is an Aviation Buisness professor.

Same here. Took 2 classes with Dr. Vasigh, both undergrad and graduate level. Always impressed with his depth of knowledge in economics and forecasting models.


-Rich
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:58 pm

You've flown over 700,000 miles. Have you paid for every ticket out of your own pocket? I have. That's why I love flying Southwest. It saves me money. If money were no object, than of course I'd fly a full service carrier 1st class everytime. WN is very successful, so there must be allot of folks who think like me and could care less what little ol airport in Dallas they fly out of.

I did encounter a sharp flight attendant (not rude to me, but responded rudely to a very belligerent customer) on one of my more recent SW flights. However, I've encountered rude flight attendants with every airline I've flown, with the exception of AirNZ and Qantas.

My only beef regarding WN's lack of assigned seating is that I can't stop the beautiful women (especially the gals from Texas) from sitting in my aisle who are attracted to me because of my good looks and charm when I want to stretch out and enjoy the row to myself  Wink
learning never stops.
 
ckfred
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:23 pm

I learned in college statistics that you can devise a survey that will come up with a favorable outcome. But the study that AA has does raise some issues that WN needs to address about the industry-wide reduction of fares after DL introduced Simplifares.

However, my understanding is that WN does not use its monopoly position. If it has strong competition on Point A to Point B, but no competion on Point A to Point C, and both routes are equal distances, then it will offer the same range of prices on both routes. That's not to say that the route with no competition will have fewer cheap seats.

As for AA's service, I have flown AA regularly since 1994. I can honestly say that I've never had a rude F/A or CSA. The vast majority are friendly, and a number of them have gone out of their way to be helpful.

But here is some irony. WN was more than willing to build a terminal for itself at BFI and move its entire operation from SEA. Yet, WN wouldn't even think of setting up in Terminal E at DFW after DL closed its hub. One would think that renovating existing gate and ticketing space would be a lot cheaper than building a new terminal at an airport with almost no commercial service.

Now, we know that WN isn't afraid of going into a legacy carrier's hub. It flies into SEA (AS), CLE (CO), DTW (NW), STL (then TW, now AA), PHL (US) and BWI (US). So, is WN really afraid to venture into DFW? I don't know.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Yet, WN wouldn't even think of setting up in Terminal E at DFW after DL closed its hub

There's a very good reason for this. Terminal E is on the south end of DFW's Terminal complex. During the vast majority of the year, departures are to the south... meaning any WN departures would have to taxi past 2 1/2 AA terminals to get to the nearest runway. Knowing the tricks AA pulled with Braniff, that's not something WN is going to want to do.

If the world were perfect WN could get themselves a new terminal built between 17c and 17L, near the east tower, with the ATC dumping all WN flights onto the east side of the airport.... but we all know that isn't going to happen

[Edited 2005-10-19 06:43:18]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
incitatus
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 11):
Why adults need to be told where to sit still escapes me. 15+ years flying Southwest and still have yet to sit next to somebody that's rude or inconsiderate.

Adults need assigned seats everybody likes an empty seat right next to them. Southwest travelers will dump three laptops, two jackets and four bags from McDonald's in every middle seat so that nobody ever thinks of seating next to them. The only explanation I have for your 15 years of happy flying is that my standards are higher.
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ctbarnes
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:50 pm

Not everyone in the industry would agree:

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm

(Scroll down to October 10 and July 25)

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
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modernArt
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
The only explanation I have for your 15 years of happy flying is that my standards are higher.

Even a self-important blowhards get assigned the middle seat on their prestegious legacy carriers every so often and there's not a darn thing they can do about it.

For me, an uncountable number WN segments flown, and still have yet to sit in the middle seat.

[Edited 2005-10-19 13:41:16]
 
ckfred
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:17 pm

MDorBust:

You actually reminded me of something that a friend of mine, a pilot with AA, told me. I think this was at IAH about 10 years ago.

While my friend was in the right-hand seat of a 727, taxiing out for takeoff, he happened to look out to the right and saw a WN plane trying to pass his plane. After he told the captain to look out to the right, the captain called the tower and asked if he had been put back in line after WN.

The controller advised WN to get back behind the 727, and the next WN crew that tried that stunt would be reported.
 
typhaerion
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:39 pm

Quote:
Professor Vasigh’s review of Campbell-Hill’s study was done at the request of American Airlines.

Enough said.

This is at the bottom of the article at AA's website. Now I currently go to ERAU, though I am an AE major and have not had any business courses. But I do not have any trouble believing that any of the professors there could spin any research to look one way or the other, and I think where the research money comes from is a big deal. They are definitely smart enough to know how to spin things.

As for this article saying the things you all have been saying, you are right. It does. You all already shot that study full of holes. Which means that any of us could have written that study, CJ included, though it would have been tough for him not to repeat himself and talk in circles. (all in good fun CJ  Wink ).

I will say it again. All of these studies, no matter whom they are from, are a load of horse rubbish. All of them are politically motivated. If you are interested in the WA, you need to go out and do your own study. Period.

Unfortunately, most Americans are too lazy to do that. Which is why us slightly educated people have to put up with these studies.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
goingboeing
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 2):
Sounds vaguely familiar to what some people have been pointing out in numerous threads on this board. WN's motives may be crystal clear but their facts are not.

Look at who paid for the study. I wonder what an ERAU study funded by Southwest would look like...
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:31 pm

Incitatus,
You've flown WN once, by your own admission, and you can accurately conclude that every WN passenger places 3 laptops and 2 coats on the seats so no one sits next to them? I hope AA doesn't pay you to analyze the WN Study too.

Do you get your paycheck from the same place as AAgent.
learning never stops.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 12):
Totally different scenarios. LGA is slot restricted and was forced to limit range due to capacity so that local/regional traffic would be its primary use diverting long haul to JFK and DCA is totally political.

Not really, DFW has a mater plan that limits the total number of flights as well. And IF the WA is repealed you can bet that the remaining "slots" will be allocated in ways similar to LGA.
I grow tired of every one thinking that the WA is a restriction agianst WN, it is NOT. It is a restriction on an AIRPORT that WN FREELY CHOOSES to fly from. WN, ya want long haul out of North Texas, MOVE TO DFW!
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stlgph
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 1):
Southwest is about to find out what happens when their local issue goes national and people who know what they're actually talking about on the issue get involved.

I know, shame what a little bit of actual research and knowledge on a subject can do, isnt it?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 22):
But I do not have any trouble believing that any of the professors there could spin any research to look one way or the other, and I think where the research money comes from is a big deal. They are definitely smart enough to know how to spin things.



Quoting Goingboeing (Reply 23):
Look at who paid for the study. I wonder what an ERAU study funded by Southwest would look like...

Ever heard of Academic Integrity?

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 25):
Not really, DFW has a mater plan that limits the total number of flights as well.

There is no such animal. Airports cannot have a plan that restricts capacity without a State (i.e. Orange County) or Federal (LGA/DCA) ruling. Without such ruling, an airport can only be constrained by it's potential for growth.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 27):
There is no such animal. Airports cannot have a plan that restricts capacity without a State (i.e. Orange County) or Federal (LGA/DCA) ruling. Without such ruling, an airport can only be constrained by it's potential for growth.

Crap. I meant to type DAL for the master plan. And YES DAL does have a master plan limiting capacity at 250 flights and 32 gates.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
iluv2pilot
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:36 am

Who cares about the studies! The Wright Amendment is anti competitive and AA is worried sick about having to compete with them. Let's have real competition in the Dallas area.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:37 am

Heres a litte known fact... Embry Riddle Airlines (mail carrier) from wAAY back in the day, helped form American Airlines!

In another note, having had Vasigh as a professor, I sure wish he would have discussed stuff like this in class as opposed to the stuff that i could barely stay awake through!

At this point all of these studies are a waste of money, without a compromise of the WA there is only 1 winner and 1 looser. If they dont want to reach some kind of accord, then the two texas airlines should sit down and play a game of Texas Hold'em.. winner takes all. (WN is no stanger to that)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 30):
Heres a litte known fact... Embry Riddle Airlines (mail carrier) from wAAY back in the day, helped form American Airlines!

They do more for DL and UA these days. What's your point?

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 30):
In another note, having had Vasigh as a professor, I sure wish he would have discussed stuff like this in class as opposed to the stuff that i could barely stay awake through!

He taught you what you needed to know so you could formulate your own opinion rather than adopt his own. Thats the nice thing about Riddle Profs, at least in the Management programs.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 31):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 30):
Heres a litte known fact... Embry Riddle Airlines (mail carrier) from wAAY back in the day, helped form American Airlines!

They do more for DL and UA these days. What's your point?

Should have worded that differently...ERAU used to be an airline and a flight school....the airline became part of AA...flight school is now the university. They share the same hertiage when you go way back, perhaps they are trying to strengthen that heratige/relationship to have bigger industry connections.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
bond007
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 20):
For me, an uncountable number WN segments flown, and still have yet to sit in the middle seat.

Well, somebody has to, so what's your point?

If you were in the last boarding group and those were the only seats left ... guess what?

I actually try not to fly because of their boarding process...that's a personal choice, but I'd like to know I have seat 15A Window without having to get in line or check-in before everyone else.

Heh, nothing bad to say about WN at all, but not for me when I have a choice, that's all. Long live one of the most successful and profitable airlines.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
typhaerion
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 27):
Ever heard of Academic Integrity?

I am not questioning his integrity, I am questioning his point of view. That is all.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
INTENSS
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 31):
He taught you what you needed to know so you could formulate your own opinion rather than adopt his own. Thats the nice thing about Riddle Profs, at least in the Management programs.

Damn straight. And if you ever wanted to shoot the breeze about industry specifics, every professor I encountered would do so freely after class or whenever they had free time during the week.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 30):
In another note, having had Vasigh as a professor, I sure wish he would have discussed stuff like this in class as opposed to the stuff that i could barely stay awake through!

You obviosuly didn't utilize your time there effectively. See my comment above.


-Rich
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting INTENSS (Reply 35):
You obviosuly didn't utilize your time there effectively.

Right....so thats why I got a good job right out of college making MBA salary with my undergrad degree.

There are just better professors there to learn from. The airport classes there taught by Seth Young prepared me better for my job than any other class ive had.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
INTENSS
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 36):
Right....so thats why I got a good job right out of college making MBA salary with my undergrad degree.

That's not what I alluded to whatsoever. I can tell by your attitude, though, how you might have gotten this great opportunity.......

As much as you would like me or anyone else to believe that your salary equates to what you know, you are mistaken.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 36):
The airport classes there taught by Seth Young prepared me better for my job than any other class ive had.

Dr. Young was pretty impressive. It's nice to have professors who know more than just the information in the textbooks they're working out of.


-Rich
 
ckfred
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RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:06 pm

Here's something to consider. If WN gets the Wright Amendment repealed, that what's to keep other airlines from lobbying Congress to try and do away with other airport restrictions.

LGA and DCA both have restrictions on the distances of routes that airlines can fly. I bet UA would love to fly DCA-SFO, and US would love to fly LGA-PHX.

A number of airports have curfews. I seem to recall that HPN and SNA both had hours in which airlines can't schedule arrivals and departures.

If, for example, SNA doesn't permit departures after 10pm, what would prevent airlines from lobbying Congress to outlaw curfews. I bet UA, AA, CO, and NW would love to have redeyes going to their hubs.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting INTENSS (Reply 35):
You obviosuly didn't utilize your time there effectively.



Quoting INTENSS (Reply 37):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 36):
Right....so thats why I got a good job right out of college making MBA salary with my undergrad degree.

That's not what I alluded to whatsoever. I can tell by your attitude, though, how you might have gotten this great opportunity.......

As much as you would like me or anyone else to believe that your salary equates to what you know, you are mistaken.

Not sure what you are eluding to, but saying i dint make the most of it then discounting suprassing most of not all in my graduating class in sorta contradictory. So next time, don't make comments if you dont know the story.

Back to the real topic nothing against Vasigh, but I got abolutely nothing form his class, and in really for him to say the WN study is flawed, and that the AA study is not also flawed discounts the entire study he did,... now we have even more flawed studys out there!

Congress or whoever needs to do an independant 3rd party study and just through out every study done by AA or WN, or studys that say one or the other is flawed.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 34):
I am not questioning his integrity, I am questioning his point of view. That is all.

His point of view is tied to the academic integrity. This is why AA went to Riddle. You commission a study using a private consultant and you usually end up with the product you want because they want to make the customer happy. You comission a University, you'll get a result, but it may not be the one you expected. Had it not favored American, you probbaly wouldn't have heard about it in the media but the study would have remained.
 
typhaerion
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: Embry-Riddle Professor Believes WN Study Flawed...

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 40):
you probbaly wouldn't have heard about it in the media but the study would have remained.

I am not so sure, but I yield to your greater experience. I stand corrected.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt