searpqx
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U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:51 am

U.S., Canada to start new open skies talks
So my question - if they aren't going to talk about ownerhsip limits or cabotage, what is there to talk about?
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DCAYOW
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:23 am

The big hindrance in the current Canada - US bilateral is 5th freedoms. This could open a whole lot of interesting new routes from Canada via USA to Central and Latin America.
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searpqx
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:34 am

Hadn't thougth of that, but since most bilaterals are based on reciprocity - what would Canada have to offer in return for the US giving up US originating traffic to these points?
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DCAYOW
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 2):
Hadn't thougth of that, but since most bilaterals are based on reciprocity - what would Canada have to offer in return for the US giving up US originating traffic to these points?

That is a good question. There isn't much beyond Canada except maybe the EU and Asia. Slim pickings at best especially since you would have to serve with large equipment. Nonetheless, the US will probably get unlimited 5ths beyond Canada to anywhere (eg. Europe and Asia realistically).
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sebring
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:51 am

The U.S. carriers could make stops in Canada to pick up passengers en route to Asia. They could put their codes on Air Canada's international flights. This would be particularly appealing to US and UA which have Star Alliance relationships with AC.

Then, there is another issue in the negotiations that the U.S. side Wants. U.S. cargo carriers want co-terminal rights: the ability to send a freighter to more than one Canadian destination on the same run. For example, from Memphis to Toronto, and then have the same U.S. aircraft carry on to Ottawa. Right now, the Toronto-Ottawa extension would havew to be flown by a Canadian sub-contractor (to FedEx). This benefit would be heavily in favor of U.S. cargo operators. Canada has no need for similar benefits within the U.S. So the balance of benefits might be created by adding passenger and cargo benefits for the U.S. and juxtaposing them against purely passenger benefits for Canada.
 
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yyz717
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:59 am

There is really no value to open skies. No US carrier will want to fly Cdn domestics, and I can only see AC, WS etc maybe opening at most a token 1 or 2 US dom flights.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 4):
The U.S. carriers could make stops in Canada to pick up passengers en route to Asia.

Not likely. Passengers want nonstops. US carriers will not risk losing US travellers just to gain Cdn travellers.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 4):
U.S. cargo carriers want co-terminal rights: the ability to send a freighter to more than one Canadian destination on the same run.

This would be one item that could be negotiated. The Cdn cargo carriers will fight it though.
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yegbey01
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:40 pm

it could help some flights come into existence....

ie, operate flights say from smaller cities such as SLC with possible stops in Canada on the way to EU

Also, could run flights though YVR to Asia....that's a real possibility.
 
searpqx
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RE: U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:47 pm

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 6):
Also, could run flights though YVR to Asia....that's a real possibility.

If CP was still around I could see AA pushing for it, but with UA having their own strong SFO/LAX gateways, I don't know that anybody else would be interested.

Reading the above the only trade off I could see would be 5th freedom which could benefit AC most co-terminal which would be an advantage for FedEx, UPS, etc.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"

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