aa777flyer
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AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:38 pm

I was on the phone with a friend last night talking about AA's future. It is expected that AA will post a $150M loss today for the 3rd quarter. It is expected that early next week at the Fall Leadership Confrence that AA will announce it will cut approx 8,000 job by year end and ask the remaining employees for concessions in pay/benefits.
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kc135topboom
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:53 pm

Is AA's 3rd quarter loss mostly caused by high fuel prices? I don't think they have spent a lot of money, yet, fighting the Wright Amendment. Can they can no longer effectively fight that WA battle?
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:05 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Is AA's 3rd quarter loss mostly caused by high fuel prices?

Entirely.

AA is actually running probably the most efficient, productive and lowest-cost legacy airline ever right now, with the possible exception of CO. AA has done an amazing job at cutting costs everywhere and making their operation much more economic. The fuel prices, however, are completely erasing all of those gains.

If AA was paying for fuel today what it was paying for fuel five years ago, it would be reporting record profits right now.
 
tothestars
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:09 am

I hope this "news" is false and I wish all the employees of AA much luck. As a TWA flight attendant, I along with my fellow coworkers will never be recalled to active status at AA... However, I still can't help but feel empathy and compassion to those at AA who never showed it to me.
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
DAYflyer
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:13 am

I wish them all the best of luck. Lord I hope it is just a false rumor. The last thing this industry needs is the one healthy legacy carrier having to do this right now.
One Nation Under God
 
LMP737
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Thread starter):
I was on the phone with a friend last night talking about AA's future.

Is this the same friend who's a member of AA management? If so does this individual know you go out and post what they say on airliners.net?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Tbird
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:25 am

While AA may not be the airline they use to be, they have probably one of the best management teams in the industry and they've managed to cut their loses and generate small profits helping to offset their loses. If fuel prices weren't so high AA certainly wouldn't be doing badly at all. I think you have to applaud Apery and his team for the job they've done at AA.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:27 am

I don't think this will happen personally. This sounds very drastic and it counter to everything that seems to coming out of AA's shop these days.

In fact there is an article in today's USA Today implying the opposite:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...05-10-18-american-cover-usat_x.htm

Of course time will tell - AMR will be releasing 3Q earnings later today and it is estimated to be around $80MM loss.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 8):
Is this the same friend who's a member of AA management?

Yup, he was the one who told me about ORDDEL. And no he has never heard of A.net
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BigGSFO
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:31 am

I stand corrected. Just released: $153MM loss.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051019/daw012.html?.v=69
 
Fleet Service
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:10 am

Funny, I was speaking a member of local management at LGA yesterday and there was no mention of pay cuts or massive layoffs coming down the pike.

I've known this particular manager for many years, and they've never been wrong with their information.

Coming back to us for another round of pay cuts will burn all of the bridges Arpey has so painstakingly built with labor since he took the helm in 2003.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
N501US
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:46 am

Wow, another A.net thread starter concerning layoffs that has no facts to back it up. Suggest adding a "?" to the topic or deletion.
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:54 am

I think it all depends on what the price of oil does. Since oil and gas inventories increased much more than expected, prices have dropped a lot today. Part of the reason is that demand is down, due to high prices.

If people conserving gasoline, and DL and NW do cut their flying by 10% to 20%, jet fuel prices will come down. And as refineries and other oil facilities come back on line, that will also drive prices down.

A friend of mine at AA has said that if oil just stayed below $55 a barrel, AA would be in good shape.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 8):
Yup, he was the one who told me about ORDDEL. And no he has never heard of A.net

If your management buddy is leaking stuff to you about profits/losses before it's officially public, that you then post on A.net... you're both treading a slippery slope.

It, in turn, leads to issues like insider trading and whatnot. They make nice ankle bracelets for folks like you and your friend.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
If your management buddy is leaking stuff to you about profits/losses before it's officially public, that you then post on A.net... you're both treading a slippery slope.

It, in turn, leads to issues like insider trading and whatnot. They make nice ankle bracelets for folks like you and your friend.

Oh give me a break... Most analyst were predicting this anyway.....As for layoffs and pay cuts, they have nothing to do with indisder trading, and for the record, those have been speculated about too by analyst.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:13 am

I am not sure about the validity of this statement, that AA is going to lay off 8,000 people between now and year's end. I'm not saying it is false, but just questioning it. AA already has its budget laid out through 31 December, and laying people off would mean redoing their budget between now and the end of the year, a costly and time-consuming process. If there are to be layoffs (which I expect probably will happen), I doubt it will happen before the new year.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:19 am

I'm not the most fond of AA personally but they do have a good thing going on there considering the environment and are making good decisions with the resources they have. Those cuts sound a bit extreme compared to the news I've been hearing recently about AA.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):
If your management buddy is leaking stuff to you about profits/losses before it's officially public, that you then post on A.net... you're both treading a slippery slope.

That's why I always check out the the anet before I make a trade!  Smile
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
aacun
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:06 am

TotheStars

Thx for the good thoughts and wishes......... One thing though, I came last night from Sao Paulo, and the new rumor going aroung is that there is going to be a recall come january, and that it will include TWA flight attendants. We´ll just have to wait and see.
 
LMP737
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 8):
Yup, he was the one who told me about ORDDEL. And no he has never heard of A.net

It seems to me to be a bit irresponsible on his part to be discussing this with people outside the company.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:41 am

I was told by a member of management this morning, that AA will be reducing management head count by 5% system-wide. There was no discussion of any other workforce reductions and/or pay concessions.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
777Purser
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:12 am

AA is short FA's there is a rumor of recalls already. On the concessions end, aparently the pilots unions has almost offered a paycut. Would you believe that? We'll wait and see.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 20):
AA is short FA's there is a rumor of recalls already

I have heard this too (partner is AA F/A) due to attrition. However the workforce seems tohbe highly utilized right now. With this being said I can see layoffs at AA, but thousands?

[Edited 2005-10-19 23:27:09]
 
RiffedAAMech
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 18):
It seems to me to be a bit irresponsible on his part to be discussing this with people outside the company

When has anyone in AA management ever been responsible? They are usually the most irresponsible people in the company in my personal experience.
 
HarvardMan99
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:38 am

This posting is absolutely false. I was in budget meetings at HDQ all day. There are planned changes - many operational. You are doing nothing but spreading false rumors. I suggest you name your sources in the future as your postings are usually 100% incorrect.
 
dadoftyler
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:37 am

Everyone,

As my son says...."simmer, simmer..." AA777flyer could have heard this from a friend at HDQ, who either was just stirring sh*t or outright trying to make himself look bigger, or someone mis- or half-heard something. I once had a level 1 analyst that workd for me who I found out was making up all kind of outright lies and telling them to her agent friends in the field just to pump up her "polical capital." Needless to say, she's enjoying her new career selling ladies unmentionables at Dillard's. Or, someone heard something wrong, read half of a memo someone left somewhere, or whatever.

Bottom line is that the AA of today is a successful company in the long-term. Arpey is a vastly different creature than his predecessors (and thank you, Jesus for that). He's bright, personable, but equally important he's all-out to do what's RIGHT, not what generates the most $$$ in the P&L. And, guys, the AA HDQ team--at almost all levels--has a different mindset these days. All of the raping and pilaging--well, most of it, anyway--of the kind that got Carty fired is OVAH. I'm not asking that you trust, just hope and watch for actions to confirm this....they will not dispute it.

I don't work for AA, but I did, and I remain close enough to a number of people that do work there to know all of this to be a fact. Just watch. All you hAAters and flAAmers, kindly continue to do so....but remember this post, and let's revisit these ideas in, say, 12 months or so. I won't even say it's a new and proud AA that's coming out (so to speak). In many ways, it's our FATHER'S AA....one with the pride, the customer focus, and the team feeling of the Flagship days of Mr. C.R. For those of us that hope for their success...let's pray it continues.

dadoftyler
 
tundra767
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:50 pm

Dadoftyler you make a great point! Thanks !
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:39 pm

Here's an idea for your consideration. While AA employees agreed to wage cuts and other work rules changes, Eagle employees were never asked for concessions.

If AMR management needs to consider cutting labor costs in the future, maybe it should go to Eagle employees, before going to AA employees for a second round of concessions.

I realize that Eagle employees make a lot less than AA employees, but it seems unfair to ask AA employees to accept lower wages, which have caused changes in lifestyles, while Eagle employees have made no sacrifices.
 
Whataboutme
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 3):
I hope this "news" is false and I wish all the employees of AA much luck. As a TWA flight attendant, I along with my fellow coworkers will never be recalled to active status at AA... However, I still can't help but feel empathy and compassion to those at AA who never showed it to me.

Don't look at it that way. There are many employees (F/A's) that wish we were back on line and flying along side of them. It is only an handful of F/A's and the old union (under Ward) that could careless about us. We will be recalled and shortly from what I understand.

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 20):
AA is short FA's there is a rumor of recalls already. On the concessions end, aparently the pilots unions has almost offered a paycut. Would you believe that? We'll wait and see

This isn't FACT nor RUMOR, just what I was told by an AA person and I am not spreading it as fact or rumor, but I was told that AA and the APFA will make an announcement Nov 1 on recalls for Flight attendants. The numbers can be as high as 3000 recalled. Again no facts and not a rumor ( or not meant to be a rumor).
Peace Out
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:04 pm

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 27):
This isn't FACT nor RUMOR, just what I was told by an AA person and I am not spreading it as fact or rumor, but I was told that AA and the APFA will make an announcement Nov 1 on recalls for Flight attendants. The numbers can be as high as 3000 recalled.

I doubt it, as AA and APFA have just agreed on new contract language that changes staffing formulas on flights with new Buy-On-Board food (most non-intercontinental flights). This is most likely going to result in fewer flight attendents, and thus mitigate any need to recall any.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:35 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 28):
This is most likely going to result in fewer flight attendents, and thus mitigate any need to recall any.

It's actually my understanding the F/A staffing on most domestic flights is at the bare minimum now, i.e. 3 per MD80 etc. Those F/A's on their reserve months are being highly utilized which wasn't so in the past, and this is a good indication the ranks are thinner than they were a few years ago - even post 09/11. It's also my understanding that attrition is on the rise. In addition, and someone correct me if I am wrong, I believe those who took voluntary leaves (after 09/11, during last year's BK scare, etc.) have come back to work -or quit. It appears there could very well be a recall, but I would be surprised if it were as high as 3000.

Now of course if AA decides to significantly reduce domestic flying then that will present a whole different scenario. But we shall see. Think good thoughts.  Smile
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 29):
It's actually my understanding the F/A staffing on most domestic flights is at the bare minimum now, i.e. 3 per MD80 etc.

Nope. AA's staffing on many flights is still above FAA minimums, which is why staffing levels will be reduced on many flights this winter.

From the APFA (AA FA's union) hotline available here:

Today is Friday, October 21, 2005. This is Tommie Hutto-Blake with the APFA Hotline.

From the day Brett, Cathy, Greg and I took office, we have made the AA Flight Attendants’ main concerns the critical issues of our Union. From membership surveys, to base visits, to reading your emails and listening to your concerns while we travel in the field, you told us over and over that your number one concern was fatigue. Our Base Leadership has continued to bring home this message, based on feedback from their members, urging us to find a way to give our membership layover rest relief.

While we are watching every other carrier take things away from their employees, APFA and AA have found a creative way to resolve a Presidential Grievance that will result in some solid relief for our flight attendants in the form of rest and our toe in the door on food.

I don't need to remind you that since the 2003 concessionary agreement, nearly all of our members have suffered from lack of rest due to shortened layover times.

In short, this year we launched APFA's We're Restless campaign, we held a Fatigue Summit attended by Flight Attendant Unions nationwide, we went to Congress with our demand for the government to sponsor a F/A fatigue study. We have requested you share your restless stories with us - some of which were printed in Skyword – and we published the Declaration of Unrest .

We heard you when you told us you were exhausted and needed more time behind the door. AA agreed to work with us to find a way to balance the needs of the American Airlines Flight Attendants while recognizing the financial constraints of AA and the airline industry. Bottom line, we had to create a cost-neutral Presidential Settlement Agreement based on an active dispute in preparation to be decided by a third party and we are happy with the results.

As a result of all this work, I am pleased to announce today that together with AA, we have had a major breakthrough on layover rest, due to the efforts of many of your APFA representatives and all of our collective efforts. While this doesn't bring us back to pre-2003 rest provisions, it is a major step in our efforts to provide you with relief. We are not finished working on the issues of layover rest and crew meals - which have been important issues for decades.

We have secured a minimum of eight hours "behind the door" effective December 2, 2005, on both Domestic and Caribbean sequences, as well as crew meals on International Long-Range, with the Extended Long Range flights effective November 15, 2005. We have also agreed to meet with the Company quarterly to review other food options for the most egregious sequences where it would be difficult for an F/A to obtain food.

Voluntary training options will also be available, with no need for a trigger process for both equipment and service training. This will allow flight attendants the option to obtain additional qualifications using both online and hands-on training pieces during a year-round basis.

APFA acknowledges the Company's contractual right in Article 9.B.2. to change staffing formulas within the parameters of the CBA. This language also includes Union safeguards to argue unreasonable workload. Since the reduction in our level of on-board passenger food service earlier this year when BOB began, many of us have been anticipating staffing reductions on certain aircraft because of the reduced workloads in the main cabin. The Company noticed us this week that in December '05, there will be changes to short-haul beverage-only flights under 1 1/2 hours, and in January '06 a further reduction will take place on both Hawaii and two-class Transcon Buy-on-Board flights. The Company's actual "notice letter" with all specifics can be found on the AA Flight Service website.

This Settlement Agreement is another real and tangible result of APFA and AA working together as business partners. We have seen results with our fellow union groups, for example with AA agreeing to hold onto our in-house maintenance, and even turning our maintenance facilities into profit centers, while other carriers out source their maintenance to foreign ports. Also, we have seen our joint efforts by labor and management together to protect our Defined Benefit Pension Plans.

It is important that AA Flight Attendants to be treated as business partners with American Airlines, being in charge of our own destiny. Both parties agreed that flight attendants needed solid relief in the area of layover rest. While we recognize that this is not perfect and it is not everything we wanted, it does reaffirm the potential for future success in our joint problem-solving approach with management.

This is not only a reaffirmation but also a verification that when labor and management focus on problem solving, we can find solutions together. And these solutions can yield tangible results for our members. It is also a reminder of how much more work we have yet to do.

Rest assured that your leadership believes this work can and will be done and that we won't rest until we tackle all of the tough issues of protecting and preserving our career - together!

And now say on the line for Leslie's portion of tonight's hotline where she will brief you on the details of this Settlement Agreement. The complete text is posted on the APFA website. Leslie…

This is Leslie Mayo with the APFA Hotline for Friday, October 21, 2005.

Please remember our 4,106 furloughed flight attendants and our 12 members serving full time in the military in your thoughts.

Since this is not a business-as-usual announcement, I will forego the new format of Fuel, Bankruptcy and Wright Amendment Watches, and general F/A news to focus on the progress APFA has made in the area of layover rest for our members.

As Tommie announced, we have had a breakthrough in the area of layover rest, and even a little movement on the lack of food on board for our longest flights. Also, we have improved trigger training to make it available year-round. As a result of the Presidential Settlement Agreement on the 737 this week, the following improvements will be made to our workrules:

All Domestic layovers effective December 2005 will be built with a minimum of nine hours or more of scheduled rest. In actual operations, domestic rest will not be reduced below 8:20. Basically, this is a me-too with the current pilot provisions and is intended to require “eight behind the door” for Flight Attendants on a layover.

All non-IFS/non-AIFS International layovers effective January 2006 will be built with a minimum of nine hours or more of scheduled layover rest. This will not be reduced below eight hours plus travel time to and from the layover to provide “eight hours behind the door.”

All IFS including deep-South America, Europe and AIFS/Far East layovers effective January 2006 will be built with a minimum of 10:30 of scheduled layover rest and will not be reduced below 10 hours free of duty.

In actual operations, if the minimum layover rest above cannot be met during a sequence, the crew should contact Crew Tracking for an adjusted sign-in time.

As Tommie mentioned, we got one toe in the door on some food for our longest flights and even for some of our uglier sequences where food is difficult to acquire throughout a duty day. This will be evaluated quarterly to identify the most egregious sequences on an on-going basis.

On International long-range flights (as defined in the CBA), Flight Attendants will be provided with a Business Class Entrée, First Class Bulk Salad and a Main Cabin follow-on. On Extended Long-Range flying (as defined in the CBA), Flight Attendants will be provided with two meals; a Business Class Entrée, First Class Bulk Salad with a Main Cabin tray set-up, and a Main Cabin Entrée and set up.

Pursuant to Article 9.F.9.a. and I.9.F.9.a. of the CBA, Trigger Training procedures will be improved so that Flight Attendants can obtain service and equipment qualifications nearly anytime of the year without having to trigger or wait for designated trigger training months based on the Company’s online training offered. This applies to training that requires little or no classroom time in Dallas.

These improvements are the result of a Presidential Settlement Agreement on the 737. The Company acknowledges the considerable expense to APFA in creating the modeling program for “an unreasonable workload on the aircraft” as it relates to Flight Attendant staffing. The Company agrees to explore using this tool in the future evaluation of any staffing changes as it relates to workload on board the aircraft.

APFA is pleased at the work both parties have put into this Settlement to provide relief to our members. Please check the APFA website and AAFlightservice.com for the details of this Presidential Settlement Agreement, as well as some Q&A’s.

On another note, don’t forget that October 31, 2005, is the last day to enroll in Health Benefits on JETNET.

That’s it for this week. Thank you for calling the APFA Hotline.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 30):
The Company noticed us this week that in December '05, there will be changes to short-haul beverage-only flights under 1 1/2 hours, and in January '06 a further reduction will take place on both Hawaii and two-class Transcon Buy-on-Board flights

OK so it's not across the board domestic flying; just in the above-mentioned markets.
 
Whataboutme
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:54 pm

I recieved an email from my union rep yesterday and he said that there may be a recall in early 2006, but it will be about 600 to 800. Taking about 4 months to get them all through training. Well I do know that I will not be in that 600 to 800. Oh well.
Peace Out
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Slash 1,000's Of Jobs/ Pay Cuts.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:41 pm

How much can AA reduce F/A staffing on flights under 1 and 1/2 hours? I can't remember the last time I was on an MD-80 that had more than 4 F/As. Unless this has to do with 757s flying short hauls, I can't see a major reduction in F/A staffing.

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