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kc135topboom
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Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:14 am

Yesterday, WN delivered to Congress some 250,000 signatures, from North Texans, on their petition drive to repeal the Wright Amendment. Use this link to see all comments currently on the keep DFW strong web site:

http://www.keepdfwstrong.com/news/05/10/101805-comment.html


The comments Mr. Cox, the COO of DFW are, in part;

“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”
 
workbench
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

First off consider the source...This is a bunch of crAAP and has AA written all over it.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets,

Don't WN employees get to fly as non-revs, anyway?
 
SPREE34
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:30 am

Desperation is starting to show. They see the last quarter starting on the game clock, and know the win is not theirs to taste.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
WN delivered to Congress some 250,000 signatures, from North Texans,

Kind of hard to ignore a 1/4 million signatures.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
travelin man
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:24 am

Yes, I can see it now:
Southwest FA: "Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be moving about the cabin to collect signatures to repeal the Wright Ammendment."
Passenger: "What if we don't want to sign?"
Southwest FA: "We will not land until everyone has signed. If people still refuse to sign, we will simply run out of gas and crash. It's your choice."

Antagonizing and pressuring travelers? I am so sure.....
 
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modernArt
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:27 am

American is perfectly able to send it own petition to Congress - the one where 10-15 folks in Dallas agree to consistently pay more $$ then their counterparts in Houston, et al for comparable distance nonstop service.

For today, 10/19
DFW-PHL $599
IAH-PHL $282

DFW-BNA $324
IAH-BNA $190

DFW-SAN $599
AUS-SAN $272
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:28 am

DFW Authorities commenting in desparation, funny stuff! 250,000 signitures is very significant and shows that there were citizens actually making an effort to sign the petition instead of Southwest forcing it down their throats; contrary to Cox's remarks. Plus it would take quite an effort Southwest get those all at the airport alone too and from people who reside in North TX.

IMO, it appears that a majority of people are siding with Southwest on the issue. Southwest isn't the only airline to benefit too. Just a matter of time till the repeal!
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
ckfred
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:35 am

But for every person who signed a petition, there could be several who approve of the status quo.

It's like the issue of the third airport in Chicago. The people around ORD are all for it. But the people around Peotone are still against it, as well as most residents of the City of Chicago.

What would be interesting to see is how many major employers in the Metroplex are in favor of repeal. In Chicago, virtually every local company that is on the Fortune 500 list is in favor of ORD expansion.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:07 am

Also from the PR, DFW COB Jeff Wentworth:

"Southwest Airlines claims its stance about the Wright Amendment is based on wanting low fares and more competition for North Texas . We have both today at DFW International Airport , including service from seven low-fare carriers. What Southwest really wants is to maintain its 97% passenger monopoly at Dallas Love Field and avoid competition. That's bad for North Texas ."

Geez, again we hear the current 97% value (because nobody in their right mind other than SWA and CoEx want to serve Love) inferred as a FUTURE value. DFW's own study said after repeal it'd be more like 55%, and others have estimated 60%-62.5%...

And Cox's "bribe" assertions? His desparation is growing more and more apparent.

In a nutshell, SOSDD from the DFW folks...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
incitatus
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 6):
American is perfectly able to send it own petition to Congress - the one where 10-15 folks in Dallas agree to consistently pay more $$ then their counterparts in Houston, et al for comparable distance nonstop service.

For today, 10/19
DFW-PHL $599
IAH-PHL $282

DFW-BNA $324
IAH-BNA $190

DFW-SAN $599
AUS-SAN $272

The numbers I get for tomorrow, 10/20 are completely different from what you show, so your table is meaningless. If you wish to make a point about fares, you have too look at how much most passengers pay, not walkup fares that are paid by one or two or ZERO passengers.
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sccutler
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
If you wish to make a point about fares, you have too look at how much most passengers pay, not walkup fares that are paid by one or two or ZERO passengers.

Sir, I have no idea what parallel universe you live and fly in, but business travelers around the country are compelled by circumstance to buy "walk up fare" tickets by the thousands every day, and at DFW, they simply have to pay more than for equivalent trips from other areas.

We had a nice run going with reasonable fares to LAX- but now, Airtran has announced that they are withdrawing from the DFW-LAX route, and also that they are not going to start up service to two FL destinations which had previously been announced. All this, from one of the best-run and well-financed low cost carriers in the marketplace.

Look at what AA did, fare-wise, after Airtran began its service, and it is not hard to understand why no carrier wants to take up the Delta space.

Yet another piece of compelling evidence- Wright is Wrong.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
KensukeAida
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:18 am

Hahahahaha....Cox should speak!!!!

Does anyone here NOT believe that he is getting money from AA or receiving some sort of kickback?

Give me a break. When the WA is repealed will he say that Senators were paid off by WN? That would be halarious.

- John
 
SunValley
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:24 am

Incitatus, At DFW, local traffic on AA is 18% "Y" fare purchase, which means it is their published "Y" fare. That is 18 out of every 100 passengers who originate at DFW. It's interesting that CVG has the same numbers with DL.
 
stirling
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):
In a nutshell, SOSDD from the DFW folks...

The dog ate my Texan-English dictionary....please be so kind sir and translate "SOSDD" for me.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 11):
Sir, I have no idea what parallel universe you live and fly in, but business travelers around the country are compelled by circumstance to buy "walk up fare" tickets by the thousands every day, and at DFW, they simply have to pay more than for equivalent trips from other areas.

Cheese and Rice!
The reason walk-up fares are SO DARN 'SPENSIVE, is because there are thousands of guys, just like me, that will walk in to their office tomorrow and find out they need to be in Wichita by the close of business that afternoon.
We have no choice but to pay it, and the Legacy carriers have built their entire business model around this known fact of life. Gouging is a big part of the culture that drives AA.

I would venture a guess that Southwest Airlines carries the most same day business travelers than any other airline. Every flight I've been on, has been half leisure-yahoos, the other half, going to some dang place to save a deal.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
The comments Mr. Cox, the COO of DFW are, in part;

“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

And good ol' Jim Wright, whose legacy still lives with us today, didn't make a nice tidy sum for his nifty little stroke of the pen?
American et al paid a handsome fee for the gesture...don't you dare not believe it.
Delete this User
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 14):
The dog ate my Texan-English dictionary....please be so kind sir and translate "SOSDD" for me.

Same old s***, different day....  Smile
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign,

What rubbish.

Southwest employees already receive free, unlimited travel.

Antagonizing customers? Be for real. Southwest is about the friendliest organization out there. As for people signing who didn't want to, that's their own problem

Ridicilous.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
RachelBDL
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

No free tickets for me! The way it was done here in BDL, we had a clipboard with the petition on it sitting at the gate podium. If someone asked about it, we explained. If they wanted to, they signed. Although, I do admit to making my sister sign as she was non-reving through BWI.

Hey, OPNLguy, I may be visiting HDQ and dispatch in the near future, looking to do a day in the field! Of course, it'd take me all day to get to DAL...
I not only drink the KoolAid, I do the Jello shots too!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:34 pm

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 17):
Hey, OPNLguy, I may be visiting HDQ and dispatch in the near future, looking to do a day in the field! Of course, it'd take me all day to get to DAL...

Look me up, or email via my profile...  Smile
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
redflyer
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
But for every person who signed a petition, there could be several who approve of the status quo.

For every person who votes in an election, there are several that don't.

This is a democracy. If those who approve of the status quo don't want anything changed, let them start a petition drive as well.

Or is WN holding a gun to their heads?
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
7e72004
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:40 pm

I would like to see the evidence that Southwest is bribing...making accusations like that is very UNPROFESSIONAL...that guy is a freakin moron.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
KensukeAida
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 20):
I would like to see the evidence that Southwest is bribing...making accusations like that is very UNPROFESSIONAL...that guy is a freakin moron.

No Duh. And the sad for him is that when the WA is repealed he probably won't be so buddy-buddy with AA anymore. No more free meal ticket for Mr. Cox.

He's scared. Plain and simple.

- John
 
cjpark
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:56 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery

Bribery is the practice of offering a professional or an authority person money or other favours in order to circumvent ethics or other rules in a variety of situations. It is a form of corruption and is generally illegal, or at least cause for sanctions from one's employer or professional organization. Often the term corruption generally refers to bribery.

For example, a motorist may bribe a police officer not to issue a ticket for speeding, a citizen seeking paperwork or utility line connections may bribe a functionary for faster service, a construction company may bribe a civil servant to award a contract, or a narcotics smuggler may bribe a judge to lessen criminal penalties.

In some cases, the briber holds a powerful role and controls the transaction; in other cases, a bribe may be effectively extracted from the person paying it.

Expectations of when a monetary transaction is appropriate can also differ: tipping, for example, is considered bribery in some societies.

The level of non-monetary favours that constitute an incentive to unethical behaviour is variable and may constitute a matter of opinion in a given field:


Had Cox said that PAX were given free tickets to sign the petition that would have been bribery. Providing incentives to employees is legal. Cox does not accuse WN of bribery in his statement that is linked to this thread. He does suggest that WN might have pushy with its customers to get the petition signed.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
7e72004
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:00 pm

I have to respectfully disagree...Cox is making unsubstantiated accusations because he knows that the Wright amendment will be repealed and he is probably sh*tting his pants at this point.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
N1120A
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

What a moron. It is pretty much impossible for WN to give their people any more free travel than they already get, considering that they can hop on an aircraft anytime they please and fly anywhere in the system for free as long as the plane has a seat.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
In Chicago, virtually every local company that is on the Fortune 500 list is in favor of ORD expansion.

Um, that is because ORD's runway configuration needs to be made more efficient so they can handle more flights with fewer delays and better manage major snow storms. DFW doesn't have the weather or layout issues of ORD, except of course that the complex is so big and AA has such concentrated banks that the airport has long taxi times. Those wont go away with a closure or DAL or status quo. The fact is, business travelers in Texas have been using WN for years because of their frequency on trunk routes and low prices, especially for walk up.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
What would be interesting to see is how many major employers in the Metroplex are in favor of repeal.

Well, I can think of at least one that is. Southwest Airlines
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
The numbers I get for tomorrow, 10/20 are completely different from what you show, so your table is meaningless. If you wish to make a point about fares, you have too look at how much most passengers pay, not walkup fares that are paid by one or two or ZERO passengers.

The numbers you could get, from one site to another, from one hour to another, are almost certain to be different, making any fare comparison (by your standards) meaningless.

As stated by others above, walk-up fares are what business travelers pay the most. Who cares what Grandma & Grandpa and the kids pay 6 weeks in advance - they aren't paying the bills for the airline anyway.

REPEAL THE DAMN AMENDMENT AND GET ON WITH IT!

MxCtrlr  bouncy 
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
Av8trxx
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:56 pm

Quoting Workbench (Reply 1):
This is a bunch of crAAP and has AA written all over it.

Speaking of which......

"....Last week, someone using a computer with an Internet address assigned to American Airlines edited [the online encycolpedia] Wikipedia to describe Southwest Airlines Co. as "a notoriously litigious company constantly seeking to change laws to gain an advantage." For a time, the site also said Dallas-based Southwest is "known for its PR machine and litigious nature."

Wikipedia volunteers deleted the phrases within hours.

Tim Wagner, a spokesman for AMR Corp.'s American unit, said the changes were "not something the company initiated or condone." He had complaints of his own: One entry described American's dominance at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport as a "chokehold." ....


http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2005/10/19/ap2287968.html
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 22):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery

Bribery is the practice of offering a professional or an authority person money or other favours in order to circumvent ethics or other rules in a variety of situations. It is a form of corruption and is generally illegal, or at least cause for sanctions from one's employer or professional organization. Often the term corruption generally refers to bribery.

Funny, my Webster's 9th New Collegiate Dictionary (okay, yes, it is old), page 178 says:

bribevb (1528): to induce or influence by or as if by bribery~vi: to practice bribery

briberyn (1549): the act or practice of giving or taking a bribe

You do not have to be a profesional, or person in authority.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 22):
Cox does not accuse WN of bribery in his statement that is linked to this thread. He does suggest that WN might have pushy with its customers to get the petition signed.

If he isn't suggesting bribery, what is he suggesting? If he is suggesting of WN of something else, he needs to prove it (as well as the bribery charge), or he and DFW could be open to a libel suit.
 
KensukeAida
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting Av8trxx (Reply 26):

"....Last week, someone using a computer with an Internet address assigned to American Airlines edited [the online encycolpedia] Wikipedia to describe Southwest Airlines Co. as "a notoriously litigious company constantly seeking to change laws to gain an advantage." For a time, the site also said Dallas-based Southwest is "known for its PR machine and litigious nature."

This is nothing new. Wikipedia is notoriously easy to change because it's a public maintained encyclopedia. I've seen this done on a variety of entries for a variety of reasons. Some people got really obscene on the entry of that Holloway girl (the one missing and presumed dead in Aruba).

Anyhow, it's not like AA has a halo over it's head or anything. See all the crap they pulled on Braniff on another thread here.

BTW it's interesting to point out that the entry now lists American Airlines as one of the "interest groups" behind the WA. That wasn't there last week, but it's been there for awhile now. ^^;;

- John

[Edited 2005-10-20 09:53:13]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:29 pm

Quoting KensukeAida (Reply 28):
Wikipedia is notoriously easy to change because it's a public maintained encyclopedia.

That is why I used a real dictionary.  Smile
 
cjpark
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
If he isn't suggesting bribery, what is he suggesting? If he is suggesting of WN of something else, he needs to prove it (as well as the bribery charge), or he and DFW could be open to a libel suit.

He is suggesting that the methods used to obtain the signatures on the petition may not have been above the board. That WN employees may have stepped over the line when obtaining the signatures by pressuring passengers to sign it. No where does he use the term bribery. He only relates that WN employees had been offered trips for so many signatures which has previously been reported in other media.

Besides this petition that WN has in its possession does not carry any weight anyway. The numbers are not that impressive anyway. Ask yourself how long did the petition drive last and the methods to get the signatures? Surely as long as the worked on the drive and the areas they solicited the petition at they should have garnered more that 250K signatures. They sure moved more passengers than that through the terminal and planes.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 30):
He is suggesting that the methods used to obtain the signatures on the petition may not have been above the board. That WN employees may have stepped over the line when obtaining the signatures by pressuring passengers to sign it. No where does he use the term bribery. He only relates that WN employees had been offered trips for so many signatures which has previously been reported in other media.

Then Mr. Cox needs to prove his alligations, or shut up. He is a lawyer, and should know better than to say something stupid like this without overwelming proof.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 30):
Besides this petition that WN has in its possession does not carry any weight anyway. The numbers are not that impressive anyway. Ask yourself how long did the petition drive last and the methods to get the signatures? Surely as long as the worked on the drive and the areas they solicited the petition at they should have garnered more that 250K signatures. They sure moved more passengers than that through the terminal and planes.

????

Just because you may not be impressed by the numbers (as if WN wants to impress you anyway), doesn't mean the local North Texas Congressional Deligation isn't impressed (on the eve of next years Congressional elections, where all Congressional seats are up for election).

250K votes in the 8 Congressional districts around Dallas and Fort Worth is more than enough to win or loose an election for someone.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 30):
He is suggesting that the methods used to obtain the signatures on the petition may not have been above the board.

As usual, you're splitting hairs, and ones so thin that they have only one side.

This latest response from DFW concerning the petitions is typical of the insidious nature of their spin, but it's nothing new.

Back on August 8th, keepdfwstrong sent out an email update with this as the subject line: "Are Southwest's Petition Signatures Valid?" Pretty serious-sounding subject line, right? The initial thoughts to the reader are "Is Southwest forging signatures?, and/or is Southwest making up phony names and contact information?

Then you open this same email from DFW, and you get these two paragraphs:

"Southwest Airlines’ recent attempts to repeal the Wright Amendment include some questionable methods of collecting signatures for its petition including giving employees free airline tickets for getting petitions signed. We thought you might want to read the compelling article from Bob Ray Sanders who details some of the methods that he has personally witnessed. Click here to read the entire article.

In contrast, we at DFW believe this is a very important discussion that should only involve tactics that are civil, professional and respectful. We urge all involved on both sides of this issue to remain committed to this type of public discussion and discord. This is precisely the approach taken when DFW recently conducted a survey of travelers inside its terminals, and this survey showed that 85 percent of DFW travelers who have opinion on this vital issue want Southwest to begin service at DFW. Under this scenario, everybody wins."


Note how they've "changed gears" from the subject line. Once they've made the negative first impression in the subject line, the two paragraphs then go off in a different direction and express only their disdain for the methods used in collecting signatures, NOT the validity of the signatures themselves.

Their FUD campaign is pretty dirty, almost Nixonian. One day, once Wright is repealed, the way that DFW/AA have mishandled their campaign is going to be in business school textbooks as an example of how not to do it.

[Edited 2005-10-22 08:05:03]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:24 pm

Basing the root of DFW's argument on a newspaper reporter, an occupation with all the integrity of used car salesmen, and on this perticular reporter, Bob Ray Sanders, calls DFW's intellegence and integrity into question.

Maybe they (DFW Airport) should hold a press conference around the dark and unused gates in Terminal E? Opps, sorry. They already did that.  ashamed 
 
cjpark
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 32):
As usual, you're splitting hairs, and ones so thin that they have only one side.

I only reiterated what Cox said if you say that is splitting hairs then ok.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 32):
Note how they've "changed gears" from the subject line. Once they've made the negative first impression in the subject line, the two paragraphs then go off in a different direction and express only their disdain for the methods used in collecting signatures, NOT the validity of the signatures themselves.

Remember this?

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/prindex.html

DFW Airport, and more specifically, a man in charge of the contracts awarded there, hosted today's press conference. We certainly don't blame the DFW minority chambers for trying to protect these contracts. It just shows that DFW Airport is fighting this battle with dollars and cents while all Southwest Airlines has on its side is truth, right, and justice.

Now when you admit that DFW did not question the signatures on the petition only the methods used to obtain the signatures is quite a contrast to suggesting that a group of minority leaders cannot be counted on to form a decision without being paid or forced to by DFW to protect their investments.

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 30):
Then Mr. Cox needs to prove his alligations, or shut up. He is a lawyer, and should know better than to say something stupid like this without overwelming proof.

I am quite sure that Mr Cox weighed his statement very carefully before issuing the release. If only to avoid misguided conclusions like yours.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
Just because you may not be impressed by the numbers (as if WN wants to impress you anyway), doesn't mean the local North Texas Congressional Deligation isn't impressed (on the eve of next years Congressional elections, where all Congressional seats are up for election).

250K votes in the 8 Congressional districts around Dallas and Fort Worth is more than enough to win or loose an election for someone.

Notice that the petition was state wide. There is no possible way that all 250000 of those signatures belong to registered voters from North Texas.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:37 pm

By the way Cox is going on, you'd think Southwest had these posters out there to get folks to sign their petition:
 
qxq400
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:42 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
What a moron. It is pretty much impossible for WN to give their people any more free travel than they already get, considering that they can hop on an aircraft anytime they please and fly anywhere in the system for free as long as the plane has a seat.

They can give them free tickets that are not space available. AS/QX gave us all free round trip tickets for our families,not space avalible but real tickets.
I for one totally believe that WN was pressuring those people to sign. Fact is no one outside of this site gives a dam! Except certain predtory airlines based in the DFW area (AA,WN). I for one hope WN gets a spanking like they did up here in SEA. Everyone thought that was a done deal to.
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
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RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:50 am

Srbmod,
That was funny!!  Silly

Quoting Qxq400 (Reply 36):
certain predtory airlines based in the DFW area (AA,WN).

When has Southwest been involved in direct preditory practices? Maybe AA and especially NW, but WN??
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 34):
Remember this?

There you go again, changing the subject rather than answering the question...  Yeah sure

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 34):
Now when you admit that DFW did not question the signatures on the petition only the methods used to obtain the signatures is quite a contrast to suggesting that a group of minority leaders cannot be counted on to form a decision without being paid or forced to by DFW to protect their investments.

As usual, you conveniently avoid the salient question, i.e. did DFW have/use leverage with their tennants, and I think reasonable folks would more readily see a possible connection there instead of the scenario you're peddling of SWA employees putting Glocks to people's head forcing them to sign petitions. Something not helping DFW's case here is the fact that it turns out that Dallas Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson has concessionaire interests in both airports, but I digress.

Now, go back to my original point about how DFW said one thing in an email update subject line, and then quite another in the body of the email's text, and tell me that was honest, and not a page taken from the Donald Segretti* playbook. Please stun me by your getting back on-topic, and not going off on yet another tangent.

(*Headed the "dirty tricks" campaign for the Committee for the Re-election of the President (Nixon), which might have benefited from information the Watergate burglars were seeking at the Democratic National Committee headquarters, all back in the 1970s for those not aware...)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
milemaster
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:27 am

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 7):
Just a matter of time till the repeal!



Quoting KensukeAida (Reply 12):
When the WA is repealed will he say that Senators were paid off by WN?



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 23):
he knows that the Wright amendment will be repealed and he is probably sh*tting his pants at this point.



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 32):
One day, once Wright is repealed,

I'm really enjoying reading all of these overly optimistic statements based on what.. a petition? Sorry to say folks, but ultimately those signatures are going to have zero effect on your repeal fight. It takes a hell of a lot more than signatures obtained by who knows how to move a mountain like the WA.

I'm not going to type here and say that the good folks at WN are wasting their time trying to repeal the WA, but I will say that more time & energy should be spent on grinding away at other things that don't involve changing laws or maniplulating rules that other airlines had the class to adhere to all along.

Without question WN has been the worst corporate citizen among airlines in 2005. Many people are tired of hearing this airline whine, complain, maniplulate, accuse, dictate, and demand...myself included. While many airlines are guilty of some of those items as well, WN is by far the leader in those in addition to their "low fares".

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. I don't care whether the WA is repealed or not because the "southwest effect" is already here. We're not going to see convention traffic & business travel boom because of a repeal. Hell, every flight I've been on in the past year in/out of DFW has been packed as it is. Even now..

It's actually WN's own doing that is making me lean towards keeping the WA in place. I have little sympathy for a company that uses methods to elevate themselves by berating competitors and public representatives. They should be encouraging support amongst their competition. Wouldn't that make more sense?

"Hey CO, HP, YX, DL, NW, FL Come fight this battle with us! Let's all bring lower fares to North Texas!" So, why haven't they done this? Simple, because that would mean they would have to share their gates & that would erode their monopoly at DAL. This has always been about Southwest and Southwest only. This white knight attitude WN is projecting is so poorly represented.. like WN is trying to save North Texas from our evil overlords or something. It's laughable to most people who can see beyond the BS.

And as far as what some of you have called comparing the announcement of serving DEN and the refusal to serve DFW as apples to oranges, the public isn't stupid. All I can say is good luck WN trying to convince people of that in the media.

Sorry guys, the attitude of "when" the WA is repealed is by far not justified.

It seems to myself and others that WN is creating the strongest case against a repeal the more they open their mouths. I mean, the DEN announcement was so poorly timed I don't think they could've given DFW a stronger defense if they tried. I'm afraid the general public and key decision makers in this decision will also have a hard time taking WN's case seriously now. The chance of repeal was already slim, now it's just sad to watch the brainwashed amway minions keep trying.

[Edited 2005-10-22 18:57:22]
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 39):
I'm really enjoying reading all of these overly optimistic statements based on what.. a petition?

If you'll recall, this thread involved SWA's petition drive, and if you're basing the opinion of some poster's that Wright will be repealed upon the notion that it's only because of petitions, you've forgotten both the context of this thread, and the context of countless other Wright threads that deal with other aspects of the issue.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 39):
Simple, because that would mean they would have to share their gates & that would erode their monopoly at DAL.

Economics would come into play and not allow WN a monopoly, or else it would be become expensive to maintain as demand for DAL services increases and rents and leases on gates increase. Other airlines could even expand to add more gates. Simply put, any other airline will have the right to enter DAL, AirTran has even hinted at the idea too.

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 39):
elevate themselves by berating competitors and public representatives.

Sounds like any other airline.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
milemaster
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 40):
If you'll recall, this thread involved SWA's petition drive, and if you're basing the opinion of some poster's that Wright will be repealed upon the notion that it's only because of petitions, you've forgotten both the context of this thread, and the context of countless other Wright threads that deal with other aspects of the issue.

Well, why don't I brush up on it then. I suppose a good place to start would be to browse though the dozens of WA threads and stop and read all the OPNLguy posts. They're easy to find because they're littered with

                                                 
and

                                                 

..after every sentence where you self elevate and self proclaim as victor of the response by your constant overuse of these particular smileys.

I'm fully aware there is more to this debate than a petition. My post on this particular thread was in response to all the over confidence that is displayed all over this topic.

I honestly was WA neutral until it became clear that you and others project the attitude of the airline itself. Now this is only a guess.. But I'd say it's safe to say you're not in the PR department over at WN.

[Edited 2005-10-22 20:35:21]
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
I'm fully aware there is more to this debate than a petition. My post on this particular thread was in response to all the over confidence that is displayed all over this topic.

Yes, but you singled out petitions ("based on what.. a petition?") inferring that that was the sole source of the optimism.

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
They're easy to find because they're littered with

Yes, I confess (Oh, the shame!), I sometimes include one or two similies in a message, yet here you are posting a message that has 50 of them. A little overkill, don't you think?

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
But I'd say it's safe to say you're not in the PR department over at WN.

The OPNLguy (operational guy) name gave that away, huh?  cheerful  (Note new, previously unused smily, just for you..)

[Edited 2005-10-22 20:41:04]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:50 am




Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
I honestly was WA neutral until it became clear that you and others project the attitude of the airline itself.



What attitude are you talking about? Optimism and enthusiasm?






Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
after every sentence where you self elevate and self proclaim as victor of the response by your constant overuse of these particular smileys.



Milemaster....I think you meant this as a joke, but if you truly are this affected by another forum member's use of two smileys, I honestly suggest you seek some sort of therapy or anger management counseling.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
milemaster
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 43):
Yes, but you singled out petitions ("based on what.. a petition?") inferring that that was the sole source of the optimism.

After going back and reading my original post I can see how that mislead the direction of my post. So you I suppose you can   me for that.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 43):
The OPNLguy (operational guy) name gave that away, huh? (Note new, previously unused smily, just for you..)

Actually no, I had no idea what the acronym OPNL meant until you pointed it out. I am honored you broke out a new smiley however. The mods might think your password was compromised or perhaps that you sustained brain damage due to lack of oxygen from a near drowning in orange cool-aid.

Ok, now I'm just being mean. I'll chill..

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 44):
Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
after every sentence where you self elevate and self proclaim as victor of the response by your constant overuse of these particular smileys.



Milemaster....I think you meant this as a joke, but if you truly are this affected by another forum member's use of two smileys, I honestly suggest you seek some sort of therapy or anger management counseling.

Sort of a joke, yes.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 44):
Quoting Milemaster (Reply 42):
I honestly was WA neutral until it became clear that you and others project the attitude of the airline itself.

What attitude are you talking about? Optimism and enthusiasm?

I was thinking more along the lines of Self-Entitlement and Egotism.

[Edited 2005-10-22 21:07:55]
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 45):
I am honored you broke out a new smiley,

I'm happy that you're happy...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Don't WN employees get to fly as non-revs, anyway?



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 16):

Southwest employees already receive free, unlimited travel.

Difference between non-revenue, space available (NRSA) travel and confirmed space (usually a paid or reward ticket). I believe SWA’s deal with their employees gathering signatures was something like gather 500 signatures and get a free ticket.

 Wink Wink Wink

Fight Wright and Go Houston Astros!

 champagne 
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes

Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:52 am




Quoting Milemaster (Reply 45):
Sort of a joke, yes.



Ok, cool.






Quoting Milemaster (Reply 45):
I was thinking more along the lines of Self-Entitlement and Egotism.



For what it's worth, that's not the intended effect. I suspect the recipient's attitude has as much to do with it as anything else.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
cjpark
Posts: 1194
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RE: A New Twist On The Wright Amendment Debate

Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:28 pm

UPDATE FOR OCTOBER 19, 2005

Business leaders from around North Texas, in addition to those from DFW International Airport, provided comments on Southwest Airlines' petition drive.

Key themes include the following:

Take care of the North Texas community. Southwest - do what’s right for the entire North Texas region, as you did for the Seattle community, and offer service from the major international airport that our community has invested in over the past 30 years.
Travelers want Southwest at DFW Airport. There are “hundreds of thousands of people in the Metroplex who don't live near Love Field” and would love to take advantage of Southwest’s low fares at DFW.
The overarching theme is clear. Southwest is free to fly from DFW International Airport today, and we continue to welcome them to do so.
Click here to read the complete comments by our North Texas and DFW Airport business leaders.

Thank you for continued interest and support of keepdfwstrong.com




Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 38):
As usual, you conveniently avoid the salient question, i.e. did DFW have/use leverage with their tennants, and I think reasonable folks would more readily see a possible connection there instead of the scenario you're peddling of SWA employees putting Glocks to people's head forcing them to sign petitions. Something not helping DFW's case here is the fact that it turns out that Dallas Congresswoman Eddie Bernice Johnson has concessionaire interests in both airports, but I digress.

Now, go back to my original point about how DFW said one thing in an email update subject line, and then quite another in the body of the email's text, and tell me that was honest, and not a page taken from the Donald Segretti* playbook. Please stun me by your getting back on-topic, and not going off on yet another tangent.

The paste above is the copy from the update@keepdfwstrong email I received. No I did not get the same message you did. But I do stand on my previous statement that the WN camp cannot believe that citizens groups cannot come out against the WA and WN support for repeal indendently without coercion or being paid for their opinions. And that while you all are crying about Cox's statement he in no way crossed the line as your PR department has done with the comments directed towards the groups that oppose WN efforts to repeal the WA.


My last flight on WN I think was in September at DAL you would see the petition at the check in counter. You would see signs inside the terminal alerting the passengers to the petition and if you went to gate check in the petition was there also. Pretty much the petition was in every place that you would have to talk to a WN employee at the airport. Every effort was made to draw attention to the petition. Then at HOU there was that silly assed bird cage with the signage for the petition as well. This flight was after the article in the Ft Worth paper reporting on the methods used by WN employees to get signatures so this time there were no gate announcements or on the plane announcements it was all low keyed. So evidentially the article got someones attention and the pressure was stopped.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart

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